Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands


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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 03:43

Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

It seems like a concern that wands of haste/heal wounds can have practically limitless charges, meaning there's not much reason to be conservative in using them.
What if ?recharging had a 50/50 chance of destroying/recharging the wand? That would mean you would actually need to be careful about not overusing a wand.
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 03:44

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

No.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 04:08

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

Would you care to elaborate?
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 04:29

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

Just removing recharging (enchant weapon can be extended to work on rods) and maybe tweaking average wand charge number would make a lot more sense than turning recharging into a form of item destruction that actually limits choices about when and how to use ?recharging while also making stashing and inventory management more important (not fun).
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 04:29

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

  • Makes it optimum behavior to only recharge empty wands; which is more tedious.
  • This Trove requires a Wand of Hasting [8].
  • We recently removed potential failure from scrolls of bless weapon and potential CATASTROPHIC failure to a different scroll both feels like backpedaling and wouldn't be a popular move.
  • Nerfing a bunch of common (and largely weak) items to rebalance a very rare one is a bad move.
  • HW wands are already balanced by not getting that many charges from a ?Recharging and would never realistically be so spammable as to be readily usable in non-ABOUT TO DIE situations.
  • Makes DD much harder than other races. Similar note for making Mu EVEN harder.
  • But the #1 reason; we don't need it /HW isn't Overpowered.
I'm beginning to feel like a Cat God! Felid streaks: {FeVM^Sif Muna, FeWn^Dithmenos, FeAr^Pakellas}, {FeEE^Ashenzari, FeEn^Gozag, FeNe^Sif Muna, FeAE^Vehumet...(ongoing)}

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 04:32

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

bcadren wrote:
  • Makes it optimum behavior to only recharge empty wands; which is more tedious.
  • This Trove requires a Wand of Hasting [8].
  • We recently removed potential failure from scrolls of bless weapon and potential CATASTROPHIC failure to a different scroll both feels like backpedaling and wouldn't be a popular move.
  • Nerfing a bunch of common (and largely weak) items to rebalance a very rare one is a bad move.
  • HW wands are already balanced by not getting that many charges from a ?Recharging and would never realistically be so spammable as to be readily usable in non-ABOUT TO DIE situations.
  • Makes DD much harder than other races. Similar note for making Mu EVEN harder.
  • But the #1 reason; we don't need it /HW isn't Overpowered.


No.
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 11:05

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

I have gone through extended without the Haste spell (only a wand) 3 times, and I never felt that I have limitless charges. In the first try I had to give up going for 15 runes (and I ascended with 13), and the main reason was that my haste wand and recharging scrolls dried up; and I used the very last charge during the ascension.

Additionally, can you think of a worse idea than bringing back item destruction (and all the tedium with it)? Currently I can't.

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 11:24

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

Magipi wrote:Additionally, can you think of a worse idea than bringing back item destruction (and all the tedium with it)? Currently I can't.

Well, I was thinking of rounding up all crawl players to a concentration camp, but eh, it's a toss-up.

Sar

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 11:38

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

isn't that pretty much what Tavern is

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 12:49

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

I think ?recharging should act as a ?EW for electrocution weapons. This will introduce many interesting decisions.

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 18:08

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

and into wrote:Just removing recharging (enchant weapon can be extended to work on rods)

While I wouldn't mind this terribly do keep in mind that you're talking about giving a ton of extra recharging scrolls to the few characters who focus on unarmed without also picking up a ranged weapon, or to mages who might be fine with keeping a +3 weapon since it's for popcorn only, or people who get lucky and found a +11 artefact anyways...

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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 18:28

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

I like the idea. Not because I think there's too much /haste /hw (I am agnostic on this), but because having your ?recharge occasionally backfire creates suspense.

50% boom sounds high though. I think you could induce plenty of anxiety with a lower boom rate.
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 22:04

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

It certainly feels to me like a wand of haste or HW with ?recharging gives too many uses. Granted this depends a ton on character choice and playing style. In an extended game I typically find 5-10 ?recharging and rarely use HW, so it means I can use ton of haste.

What "too many uses" means is the issue here I guess. Obviously there is disagreement. Also number of charges could be cut in other ways than destroying the wand.
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Post Thursday, 30th April 2015, 22:31

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

How about a chance to reduce max charges by 1?

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Post Friday, 1st May 2015, 15:27

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

How about if recharging is too common, reduce the odds of recharging spawning, instead of re-adding a form of item destruction as a weird backdoor nerf to 1 or 2 wands.

If recharging were as rare as wands of HW, then the (already non-existent) problem is (even more) solved.

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Post Friday, 1st May 2015, 15:32

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

The thing is, I don't want to nerf recharging spawn rates, because I would want it to be generally available to use on wands even if you've got haste/HW in inventory.
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Post Friday, 1st May 2015, 15:56

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

If there is a problem with too many charges there are many better solutions than item destruction:

• Eliminate the wand
• Lower max charges on the wand
• Less effective recharge for the wand
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Post Friday, 1st May 2015, 17:08

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

IMO 'item destruction' is no the right term for this effect. Historically item destruction been a consequence of enemy/environmental effects that were never really under direct player control, and encouraged tedious behavior like dropping potions and scrolls. I don't see this change encouraging any type of tedious behavior.

I'm talking about changing the way we think of wands. The 0 charge wand is already effectively 'destroyed', and ?recharging would give a chance of restoring the wand to a useful condition once again.
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Post Friday, 1st May 2015, 19:14

Re: Give ?recharging a chance to destroy wands

It encourages keeping track of redundant wands of haste/tele/heal wounds, instead of just dumping spares after they've run out of charges.

This proposal also unnecessarily punishes some under-equipped early-game characters who want attack wands to deal with difficult monsters. I've never heard anyone say wands of fire are overpowered; why nerf them?

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