The Tavern

Put the portal on a timer is fine. Make you rush towards it is fine. So let's surround all portals with Cerebov and Royal Jelly clones. That'll increase the "risk" and make it loads of fun.

I'm not saying that all portals should be easy to reach. Balance of the risk is what I am talking about here. A system that generates impossibly hard--or distressingly easy--challenges is flawed and must be fixed.

minmay wrote:Neither of the challenges you mentioned are impossibly hard.

Well, this would explain why you think so many things in the game are "overpowered." Clearly, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I gear out my Skeleton Warrior with a +9/+13 Spear of Reaching.

Ann Hal wrote:Put the portal on a timer is fine. Make you rush towards it is fine. So let's surround all portals with Cerebov and Royal Jelly clones. That'll increase the "risk" and make it loads of fun.

I'm not saying that all portals should be easy to reach. Balance of the risk is what I am talking about here. A system that generates impossibly hard--or distressingly easy--challenges is flawed and must be fixed.

The game is randomly generated you know. We can't fine tune the timer so that it matches perfectly with the opposition you'll face to get to it. Like everything else in the game, randomness will create easy situations, hard ones, and sometimes impossible ones. This is unavoidable.

galehar wrote:The game is randomly generated you know. We can't fine tune the timer so that it matches perfectly with the opposition you'll face to get to it. Like everything else in the game, randomness will create easy situations, hard ones, and sometimes impossible ones. This is unavoidable.

What you can do is avoiding stuff like vaults that start the timer when you look through a transparent wall. That kind of goes against the spirit of not starting the fast timer until you see the portal.

vintermann wrote:
galehar wrote:The game is randomly generated you know. We can't fine tune the timer so that it matches perfectly with the opposition you'll face to get to it. Like everything else in the game, randomness will create easy situations, hard ones, and sometimes impossible ones. This is unavoidable.

What you can do is avoiding stuff like vaults that start the timer when you look through a transparent wall. That kind of goes against the spirit of not starting the fast timer until you see the portal.

Are you thinking of a specific vault? Do you know its name?

Katak wrote:
joellercoaster wrote:Kirke porkolates one of my summoned imps!

Imps are immune to polymorph, so Kirke really is a cheater and needs to be removed from the game.

Those 2 posts have started quite an IRC debate

minmay wrote:portal_sewer_entry_c

This one is fine. It has 22 glyphs on the boundary, two of which are glass and another two of which are secret doors.

Procedurally generated content relies on randomness. You may get impossible tasks (a soft version of which is a portal vault you cannot possibly reach, a hard version of which is an OOD spawn you'll have no chance to escape from). Of course we are trying to keep things in balance, but we don't even pretend that we want to get rid of them all.
If you are looking for a roguelike that's designed around 100% winnability, try Nethack (this is not meant in a derogatory way). We believe that ensuring solvability kills fun in the long run. Your mileage may vary.

...I don't have teleportitis any more.

Really, really. A lot.

Not sure why minmay tried to answer the question since he never saw my game. In any event, that is not the map I encountered.

What I encountered was enter_bailey_8:

Code:: MAP xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x.................@ ccccccnnncccccnnncc c.....ndn.....ndnOc c.nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn.c @+.ndn.....ndn.....c ccnnncccccnnncccccc x.................@ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ENDMAP

This map contains two false corridors, with clear walls that allow you to see the portal--and thereby trigger the shorter timer.

As I understand it, the shorter timer gives you 270 to 330 moves to get to the portal. It takes ~20 moves to get to the portal, even from the correct door (the one on the left). So the effective short timer on this vault entrance is actually 250 to 310 moves.

If this entry is encountered from the right side, a player will likely waste 40-50 moves testing the two false leads/searching for a secret door. And then the player has to find her way around to correct entrance, however many moves that takes. If a dangerous creature is encountered, more moves will be spent backtracking or fighting.

When I encountered this vault, a troll spawned in it. That was, of course, random. It appears clear that the intended challenge posed by this vault is the shortened timer triggered by the clear, impassable walls.

Love it when you find out, necrophages are perfectly able to pick up bow's and shoot you, the hard way.

In my case, I always always try frantically to find the portal, and then I try not to get killed. The effect on me is thus not to cause me to consider my option, but to make me play a bit more recklessly on a level, and to try to beat the challenge of finding the portal.

...Elf 5 becomes a revolving door to the abyss. Got banished 6 times before I cleared it.

On the plus side, I got the rune, 3 randarts, a scroll of acquirement (nothing good though), and various other goods. I also went from level 19 to 20 almost entirely thanks to the abyss.

...the entire bottom level of Swamp catches fire.

Why did I never do this before?!

If you get the Lair:8 end with the elephant statues, set that forest on fire after you trigger the dire elephants. Hilarity ensues.

(Doesn't work so well with the crazed wizard and the hell portal, though. Sun demons don't burn much.)

...when you find a Zot trap, right before stepping on it, in those narrow halls where you would have been guaranteed to blithely walk onto it otherwise.

... when a summoned polymorphing demon makes your orc knight vanish, and just as you are about to flee in terror from a hydra that rounds the corner, you realize that it's friendly.

... when elvish soldiers try to kill your pet with swords and you find that friendly hydras can regrow heads just like hostile ones.

... when crawl makes you just cackle evilly into your computer screen. "Margrim the 6-headed hydra" :twisted:

... A PLAN COMES TOGETHER

... when you get overconfident and crawl slaps you down. (Titanic slime creatures can apparently squish hydras very quickly. Doh!)

I get mugged by Nikola, Azrael and Snorg at the entrance to Elf. So far, so worrying.

They come charging down the hallway. Nikola gets poisoned somehow and runs off to die offscreen, Azrael runs head-first into the longsword of freezing I'd prepared earlier, and Snorg gets stuck behind a fire elemental in the corridor, burning to death in a series of fire vortices without getting close.

Anticlimactic? Sure. Amusing? Hell yes.

I'm pretty sure Xom thinks it's hilarious.

I like it when Xom is BORED.

But I also hate it. Go figure. (but isn't it the core of roguelike games ?)

I love it when I step on a Zot trap, and all that happens is that my one bad mutation gets cancelled out.

...Ithere is a nice talkative and reasonable Webtiles player to watch and kibitz, and my random advice actually helps this player!

...I think.

...I find enough will to stop playing when I need to stop playing.

I love it when I start a Demonspawn Death Knight, and my first mutation slot is Powered By Death. Thematic coolness, or what?

(OK so it would be cooler if the power still emanated from zombies, but hey

)

Just thought I'd have a moan. I decided to get a MuWz a go, I had Poison Cloud castable (plus Bolt of Lightning) so decided to stop exploring Lair and head to Orc mines... I was insta-killed going down the stairs to Orc 3:

The bolt of lightning hits the orc zombie.
The orc zombie is destroyed!
The bolt of lightning hits you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
The bolt of lightning hits you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

24272 Regnix the Conjurer (level 12, -12/71 HPs)
Began as a Mummy Wizard on July 11, 2011.
Was the Champion of Sif Muna.
Killed from afar by jvj24601's ghost (40 damage)
... with a bolt of lightning

... on Level 3 of the Orcish Mines on July 12, 2011.
The game lasted 02:27:17 (21658 turns).

I had full HP when I went down the stairs. :-(

Now my ghost might do the same to someone else!

but I thought mummies dont produce ghosts (being undead) so at least you haven't added to the problem.

Oh yeah, good call

I love it when it's tomb time, and I worship Kiku.
Death Curses? What Death curses?

I love it when... I buy a new sofa, and it gets delivered looking even nicer and more comfortable than I remembered in the store.

Then the very first thing I do is sit on it playing Crawl for an hour

I also love it when... I go downstairs onto one of those big lava levels with a cross-shaped open floor area in the middle, with glass walls looking out over the lava. And through the glass, I can see my previous character's ghost hovering over the lava, looking wistfully in.

[edit: Haha turns out there are (I think) three player ghosts on that level, only one of whom is on my side of the glass - and it's the one without Mephitic Cloud

]

I love it when I drink 4 potions at once in a desperate attempt to find heal wounds. These potions happen to be:
Strong Poison.
Degeneration.
Slow.
Confusion.

Somehow, I manage to kill the two snakes. I have no potions left, I'm on 3 health. I see a potion of healing right at the edge of my LOS. I die ONE STEP AWAY FROM IT.

I love you crawl.

I love it when...

I am in Ice Form. I am in Lair, fighting an Agate Snail out in the open.

Around the corner comes a Centaur. And he has fire arrows, but I manage to engage him, though he has quickly knocked me down to about half HP.

Around a different corner comes another Centaur. He also has fire arrows. By some feat of gymnastics, I manage to engage both of them, though I am really bleeding now - the situation is manageable.

Lo! Of course where there are two Centaurs, there is perforce a third. No points for guessing what flavour his arrows are too. Scroll of blinking? Sure... except blurry vision decides to rear its ugly head.

Bye-bye Hiram the OcTm. Ironically, the last blow was landed by the snail I was fighting to start with :roll:

(Yes, I realise this death is my fault for not immediately departing as soon as the first centaur turned up - but it did feel particularly like a Crawl Decides You Will Die moment, given that I'd munched a few centaurs by this stage and was starting to put them in the 'not a problem' bucket. Of course, the Dungeon is a very different place to the Lair.)

joellercoaster wrote:(Yes, I realise this death is my fault for not immediately departing as soon as the first centaur turned up

How about switching to spider form when facing fire attacks?

..also would have worked

I think this works out as the Law of Crawl Error Compounding: "If you make a small but definite tactical error, subsequent other factors will conspire to make it spiral into a fatal blunder."

I love it when...

I notice Mennas on Shoals:5.

While I'm standing on the upstairs.

With the rune :lol:

Joel
Laterdude

Best mut set ever? Quaff-IDing potions, third one is a mut and I get...sInv, speed 1, slow metabolism.

Tight.

I love it when that happens.

... that runed robed for 18 gold in the shop was a +2 robe of the archmagi

...when I roll up a MeGl and pick polearms as my weapon. On D:9, a goblin comes shows up and hand-delivers a +2,+3 Demon Trident of Venom. Not the best Demon Trident ever, but still awesome. And still way before I should even see one.

...also in the same game. I see a legendary deck. I also see a Jelly eyeing it. I scramble for the deck and make it just before the Jelly does. After driving the Jelly off, I draw a card. It's Experience.

...Trog makes his very first weapon gift a randart demon whip (that doesn't have any property that totally ruins it). Awww yeah!

...when a really bad situation for a young character turns out really well:

Yredelemnul accepts your slave's kill.
You can now recall your undead slaves and mirror injuries on your foes.
You kneel in prayer and are bathed in unholy energy.
You hit the ogre, but do no damage.
The ogre hits you with a giant spiked club!
Ouch! That really hurt!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Yredelemnul mirrors your injury!
You kill the ogre!
Yredelemnul accepts your kill.
Your Short Blades skill increases to level 3!
Your Armour skill increases to level 2!
Your Dodging skill increases to level 2!
You have reached level 4!
You have reached level 5!
You feel agile.
You can no longer recall your undead slaves and mirror injuries on your foes.

Sometimes Crawl gives you just enough rope to climb out of your hole

...when I'm quaff-IDing potions, because they're starting to weigh me down. And...

You feel extremely strange.
Your vision blurs. Your body twists unusually.
It was a potion of mutation.
Your possessions no longer seem quite so burdensome.
It has a very clean taste.
Your vision sharpens. Your body's shape seems more normal.
It was a potion of cure mutation.

...When you find Ice dragon hide on D4....and it is not an OOD mimic.

Creatures don't understand their own vulnerabilities.
While fighting a Pan Lord who was immune to all my icy spells, but vulnerable to fire (which I couldn't cast), I got this:

Amyuho Vimmi sneers, "Scamper home whilst life thou hast!"
Amyuho Vimmi gestures at you.
You partially resist.
One of your 4 scrolls of remove curse catches fire!
The great blast of fire engulfs Amyuho Vimmi.
Amyuho Vimmi is burned terribly!
Amyuho Vimmi dies!

I think it was firestorm - anyway it resulted in a big flaming cloud, lots of vortices, and loud giggling.

dassem, that just made the day of a certain Makhlebite who has killed himself way too many times with the electrical orb from Major Destruction, and with Freezing Cloud before the targeting enhancements.

...the very first branch I stick my head down (Swamp) has Mara 4 squares from the stairs.

Bonus deliciousness? I know Airstrike already

[edit: on the upside, I then ran into Rupert in the main Dungeon... who paralysed me with fear on turn 2... only to get munched when my Demonic Guardian decided that this was probably a really good time to give me my first Executioner. It was.]

Your orb of fire glows bright magenta.
The bolt of fire hits the green draconian shifter.
The green draconian shifter dies!

Ohh, loving it.

...when you're playing an octopode of chei and run into a herd of Death Yaks on L:6...

...while swimming in deep water, with nothing but deep water all around you...

...and mephitic cloud and poisonous cloud memorized.

Choices, choices.

The Tavern

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