Make Ignite Poison a Poison spell

[Berder]

Ignite Poison is a level 5 fire/transmutations spell, requiring no poison magic at all despite the name and theme. Fire magic is a school with plenty of spells. Poison magic is a bit thin. Suggestion: make Ignite Poison be part of the Poison school. Options follow.
Poison/Transmutation - Well, this option is missing Fire, but the way it is now it's missing Poison, so it seems fair
Fire/Poison - This would let fire elementalists get use out of it like they do now, but also allow those with poison magic to use it. I like this option.
Fire/Poison/Transmutation - As a 3 school spell, it would have to drop down to level 4 and increase the damage

Second suggestion: After making one of the above changes, put Ignite Poison in the VM starting spellbook [edit: either replacing Venom Bolt or just in addition to the other spells]. This would allow venom mages to be comfortable in lair with just the magic in their starting book, without having to melee black mambas or take Vehumet.

[Sprucery]

You want to take the best spell in VM starting book away?

[and into]

Second suggestion: After making one of the above changes, have Ignite Poison replace Venom Bolt in the VM starting spellbook. This would allow venom mages to be comfortable in lair with just the magic in their starting book, without having to melee black mambas or take Vehumet.

But Venom Bolt is actually a good spell, so it seems to me this part would be a major step backwards.

I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other about what schools ignite poison is in, or whether it is included in the starting book, but it shouldn't replace venom bolt.

[Sandman25]

You want to take the best spell in VM starting book away?

+1. It is the best spell in the game with Kiku/Yred and you are guaranteed to get it if you choose VM.

[Berder]

Well, it doesn't have to be venom bolt. I'd say Olgreb's except no one would ever use that if it weren't in a starting book. Maybe just add Ignite Poison to the starting book without removing any spells.

[bcadren]

You want to take the best spell in VM starting book away?

+1. It is the best spell in the game with Kiku/Yred and you are guaranteed to get it if you choose VM.

You are saying V.Bolt is better than B.Draining? Disagree. V.Bolt might do more to non-rPois creatures; but the drain status effect is more useful and draining works on more targets.

Well, it doesn't have to be venom bolt. I'd say Olgreb's except no one would ever use that if it weren't in a starting book. Maybe just add Ignite Poison to the starting book without removing any spells.

I don't see why that would be a problem. FE starts with 6 spells; AE starts with 6; EE starts with 6; IE starts with 6; Wz starts with 7... VM starts with only 5.

[duvessa]

your poll is missing an option

[Greyr]

+1 for removing it entirely

[gammafunk]

You guys talk about wanting to vote for removal should vote for removal! Do I have to explain to you what democracy is...

[Arrhythmia]

You guys talk about wanting to vote for removal should vote for removal! Do I have to explain to you what democracy is...

i voted for removal, but while i did it, i closed my eyes and pretended i voted for the removal of ballistomycetes

[Hirsch I]

god damnit Arrhy, the poor horse is already dead, stop beating it!

[Arrhythmia]

god damnit Arrhy, the poor horse is already dead, stop beating it!

you know what else i want to beat?

[Hirsch I]

ballistomycetes?

[bcadren]

i voted for removal, but while i did it, i closed my eyes and pretended i voted for the removal of ballistomycetes

The growing fungal colony simulation aspect of Ballistomycetes is kind of cool. Probably should stick to just Fedhas; though I agree.

I mean from an emergence perspective; it's one of the more fascinating and distinct parts of crawl. It would be more relevant gameplay; if the player stayed or repeatedly returned to the same floor multiple times in a short period of time; rather than using each floor only once. It literally is a procedural infestation that grows in simulated time. Fascinating concept. Forest fires; interactivity of certain spells and hunger mechanics also have some pretty fascinating emergent properties; but overall most of these are neither the focus of gameplay, nor that relevant to it; unfortunately.

[Berder]

Why do you want to remove Ignite Poison - it's one of the more interesting and unique spells, and it's very powerful in the right circumstances! It can be used in several different ways. You can use it to deal direct damage against poison-corpse enemies, you can use it to turn poisonous corpses into flame clouds, you can use it to turn poisonous clouds into flame clouds, and you can use it to finish off an enemy that you've heavily poisoned with other poison magic.

[Pereza0]

I think making it Poison/Fire sounds good to me. It is a way to deal with poison resistance and also could be used as a gateway into Fire Magic, that hurts most stuff with rPois (undead specially) and is also conjurations focused

It doesn't particularly synergize or fit with Transmutations. I wouldn't put it in the starting book though

[Sandman25]

You are saying V.Bolt is better than B.Draining? Disagree. V.Bolt might do more to non-rPois creatures; but the drain status effect is more useful and draining works on more targets.

Yes, I am saying exactly that. It is level 5 spell which is castable before Lair and is guaranteed for VM. Similarly Conjure Flame/Sticky Flame are better than Bolt of Fire/Fire Storm for FE.

[XuaXua]

You guys talk about wanting to vote for removal should vote for removal!

Unfortunately, the sum of all the other votes cannot be considered counter-removal because this is a poll with multiple options selectable.

[Turukano]

It always seemed strange to me that ignite poison is fire/tMut. So before reading any of your posts I thought fire/poison sounds more logical. I voted for it.

Edit: Making it poison/tMut makes sense as well imo.

[bcadren]

Yes, I am saying exactly that. It is level 5 spell which is castable before Lair and is guaranteed for VM. Similarly Conjure Flame/Sticky Flame are better than Bolt of Fire/Fire Storm for FE.

And you have a 50% chance to get bolt of draining in your second Kikubaaqudha gift. One of [B. Draining, Simulacrum, Death Channel] (1/3), then one of four spells not picked in the first round (1/4) leads to a composite probability of 1/2. Not sure the odds on Vehumet's gifts. [The weighting towards your current skills is far more complicated. Fire Storm is really high odds at max piety; but B.Fire, no clue.

[dornbeast]

Ignite Poison is a level 5 fire/transmutations spell, requiring no poison magic at all despite the name and theme.

Fire magic creates fire.
Ice magic creates ice.
Poison magic creates poison.

Ignite Poison does not create poison. It transmutes poison into a flammable material, and ignites it.

Transmutation/Fire.

[Berder]

Poison magic creates poison.

That's not true; consider the Cure Poison spell.

Also consider necromacy. Necromancy does two things. Necromancy kills the living with negative-branded damage, which does not work on undead. For undead, it has special spells to enslave or kill them. Ignite Poison could be to Poison Magic like what Control Undead or Dispel Undead is to Necromancy.

[Pereza0]

Ignite Poison is a level 5 fire/transmutations spell, requiring no poison magic at all despite the name and theme.

Fire magic creates fire.
Ice magic creates ice.
Poison magic creates poison.

Ignite Poison does not create poison. It transmutes poison into a flammable material, and ignites it.

Transmutation/Fire.

That is the flavour of the spell. What I think is a more interesting topic of of discussion is if it being Fire/Tmut actually makes sense in terms of gameplay

[bcadren]

That is the flavour of the spell. What I think is a more interesting topic of of discussion is if it being Fire/Tmut actually makes sense in terms of gameplay

I think it doesn't. Fire has enough wide-target spells that there's little purpose for an FE to pick up this spell; especially since it only works on those that leave poisoned chunks, unless you are using poison yourself. I will say, honestly, some of the weirder creatures with poisoned chunks (Iron Troll, Death Yak, etc.) I halfway assume have them in order to make the spell work. O_O;

From the Transmuter side; it's a fair choice to get some fire (which you'll use for nothing else) in order to have effective crowd control; as your form spells only kill dudes quickly at melee range. At least for a couple branches with A LOT of poison enemies Lair, (Snake/Spider), (Shoals/Swamp).

The only group that could use Ignite Poison effectively for a longer period of time are poisoners. Flaming clouds from Poison clouds; all poison you put into foes turned into fire damage, etc. As I mentioned earlier; the combo with Olgreb's might be borderline broken in a lot of places; do a hell of a lot of damage and keep Olgreb's useful for a lot longer. But to this group it's also pretty impractical to pick up both school, without completely branching into fire later on.

It's also the only Fire/Tmut spell there's no other reason for the two to cross paths (this wasn't always the case; Dragon Form used to be two schools) and there isn't really any...gtg incomplete post.

[Leafsnail]

I think it makes way more sense gameplay wise as Fire/Poison. It rewards you for poisoning enemies - that's something someone with Poison Magic skill is likely to do. It also helps a bit against some rPois enemies, which someone with Poison Magic might be interested in. If you have a lot of Fire and Transmutations skill then you are less likely to be poisoning things and you'll almost certainly have other ways to deal with the poisonous rPois enemies.