What if Abjuration Affected All Created Allies Equally?

[bcadren]

IE: Instead of just sending back summons Abjuration 'undid the magic that animates the remains' (killing undeads); made Fulminent Prisms fizzle, removed Singularities and Ball Lightning? ...etc.etc.

Actually thinking this could be a positive effect; both from the PoV of an AE (use Abjure to get rid of a Ball Lightning that would otherwise ONLY self damage) and from a balance perspective HUGE Kiku nerf; which Kiku kind of needs, tbh.

[archaeo]

So dispel magic, more or less? Except for how we already have dispel undead, which is that huge Kiku nerf you wanted (and is a spell more than a few elves and panlords know), and how no one would ever memorize a spell that was only good versus player ghosts and random panlords? This change would also presumably make aura of abjuration useless for anybody who actually has the summoning skill to cast it, since they're probably summoning things they would prefer to keep un-abjured.

Or am I missing something?

[jejorda2]

I think he's proposing that abjuration work on conjured and necromantic beings the way it works on summoned beings, not that it works on allies the way it works on enemies.

EDIT: neoclassic, eh? Autocorrect is fun.

[tasonir]

I frequently take up aura of abjuration as my only summoning spell. 10 summoning as you're about to enter extended isn't too much of a cost. Not worth it for 3 runes of course.

That said there aren't that many monster necromancers out there so I don't think this would have that large of an impact either way.

[bcadren]

I was thinking Enemy 'Mass Abjuration' (which all summoners have) destroying player effects, including Simulacra. As I said; Kiku Nerf.

[tasonir]

Well there is a kiku nerf, it's just been implemented by giving undead an expiration timer rather than vulnerability to abjuration...so, more or less?

[bcadren]

Well there is a kiku nerf, it's just been implemented by giving undead an expiration timer rather than vulnerability to abjuration...so, more or less?

No. AD isn't what makes Kiku so powerful, it's Simulacrum.

[Sar]

It's not the precise characteristics of those two spells but the sheer amount of bodies to throw at your enemies.

[Hirsch I]

Well there is a kiku nerf, it's just been implemented by giving undead an expiration timer rather than vulnerability to abjuration...so, more or less?

No. AD isn't what makes Kiku so powerful, it's Simulacrum.

true dat, Kiku scales very well with AP.

[bcadren]

It's not the precise characteristics of those two spells but the sheer amount of bodies to throw at your enemies.

Yea Corpse Drop + Simulacrum IS the more insane combo though. It was worse when Sublimation worked on chunks, damn. AnimSkele to quick butcher; wield and simulacrumify a few dozen, sublimate blood from others; repeat. near infinite very fast summons. Now...does anyone even use sublimation anymore? haha

Seriously though; enemy summoner's Mass Abjuration working on all undead would be a really effective nerf.

[Sar]

I always used Sublimation on myself. You should try it, it's pretty good at around 10 or so Necro (well, depends on your Int I guess). Don't do it when you are low on HP though!

Anyway, my last winning char of Kiku killed Mara by pressing aa a couple of times, animating dead and closing the door. Turns out giants' zombies are quite powerful! I never learned Simulacrum on that char.

[bcadren]

I always used Sublimation on myself. You should try it, it's pretty good at around 10 or so Necro (well, depends on your Int I guess). Don't do it when you are low on HP though!

Anyway, my last winning char of Kiku killed Mara by pressing aa a couple of times, animating dead and closing the door. Turns out giants' zombies are quite powerful! I never learned Simulacrum on that char.

I can see that; of !Kiku though the amount of good melee creatures to AD/Simulacra gets really low in late game/extended anyways (Except Zot with all it's D's). Usually for extended the only Necro Spells I keep around are Necromut (counter Torment), Regen (make 5ing not take as long), Dispel and Control. Slaves start seems weak around the time Conjurations have wide AoE's. I suppose I can imagine keeping it on a melee-only character in extended; but it still seems like I'd have a better choice for small cost. [I mean in extended the level 7 Translocations spell cBlink is generally thought of as XP cheap; so S.Demon/Abjure? Shadow Creatures? ...hell Shadow Creatures is basically the same effect (copies of the same creatures found in this branch) without the extreme nerf of them being slow, stupid and non-regenerating.

[Sar]

On my current character I killed Gloorx out of LoS with Simulacra.

[bcadren]

On my current character I killed Gloorx out of LoS with Simulacra.

With Kiku, Simulacrum wins by numbers; but the things summoned are pretty much weakened Shadow Creatures. Sif summoner with Shadow Creatures would be more powerful.

[Sar]

I'm not sure that is true, even though SCreatures is a ridiculous spell.

[tasonir]

I was under the impression that summons don't attack out of LOS anymore - were the simulacra in sight and Gloorx wasn't? Are simulacra not affected since they're necromancy? I don't often use many minions, but I thought this was fixed...

[Sar]

Simulacra are not summons!

[Hirsch I]

new spell: Summolacrum. simulates simulacrum by summoning some simulacra.