Why WebTiles Sucks (Compared to Tiles)

[treerex5]

Before you start with all the angry comments, hear me out.

I love offline Tiles. It has a great configuration, an amazing UI, and full mouse support. WebTiles offers (almost) the same tiles, but the UI has no clickable tabs, the config's just OK, and there's no mouse support, except for when you're choosing your background.

If, however, mouse support was added, the UI from console was implemented, and pressing the control key actually worked, I'd happily switch to Webtiles for the benefits that it offers, such as your games being saved online, watching other people play, the message system, and tourneys (I currently just temporarily switch to online to play tourneys).

So, to recap, here are the Pros/Cons of Webtiles and Tiles.

Tiles

+Amazing config
+Great UI
+Mouse support
+No lag
+Actually shows you moving when you hit explore instead of just moving instantly there and leaving footprints

-No tourneys
-Offline only
-Download your own updates


WebTiles

+Online
+Auto-update
+RC editing is easier
+Tourneys
+Messages/Watching

-Bad UI
-Configuration is OK at best
-Lag
-Stupid yellow footprints in explore mode
-NO MOUSE SUPPORT

[comebackshane]

You can get rid of the footprints by adding the following line to your rc file:

show_travel_trail = false

EDIT: Nevermind, I can't read. No idea about tracks in explore mode, seeing as I have never used explore mode...

EDIT 2: No mouse support online was annoying at first simply because I was so used to use clicking for certain actions. I have since transitioned in using all commands, shortcuts and macros available and now hardly use the mouse at all in local play either. I'm glad I made that transition, saves a lot of time overall.

[triorph]

I disagree with your list. Here's mine.

Pros of webtiles:
- Better UI
- Instant autoexplore with footprints
- no mouse support

Cons:
- lag


Also note that both footprints and autoexplore delay are configurable in the config file, but are rightly disabled by default (because lag).

[jeremie]

The lag is the only thing that kills me. After getting used to playing via SSH (which is practically instant), I just can't get used to the delay of webtiles. Sometimes I'll play via SSH, and then have a second screen watching myself via webtiles just so can peek over and appreciate all of the hard work that goes into the tiles.

[XuaXua]

Play on CBRO. No audience, but no lag either.

[scorpionwarrior]

Lag would only be worse if webtiles had to track mouse movement. No one is paying for these servers except their owners, show some respect. If you had any perspective you would be amazed the whole thing works at all.

[Bloax]

The lag isn't so bad if you refresh every 15 minutes. (You're not gonna win a webtiles game in under two hours unless you do.)
Unfortunately you'll be refreshing every 15 minutes to keep the lag down.

[Arrhythmia]

offline sucks because it doesn't have the wide cast of enjoyable characters that tileschat has.


on the other hand, tileschat has gammafunk, so you know, i guess you could argue the other way.

[gammafunk]

Just can't get over me telling you that it wasn't minmay you beat in online chess, can you? I guess that must really hurt, but try to take some comfort from the fact that I really enjoyed crushing your dream.

[mps]

Lag would only be worse if webtiles had to track mouse movement. No one is paying for these servers except their owners, show some respect. If you had any perspective you would be amazed the whole thing works at all.

Pretty sure mouse support wouldn't have to result in more lag.

But agreed, webtiles is great.

[Moanerette]

The lack of mouse support put me off online play for a while, then I just thought 'sod it'. It really doesn't take long to adjust.

[tasonir]

I use the mouse from time to time in WebTiles...You mentioned it works on character selection, but it also works in any lettered inventory type screen. I generally use it to change my autopickup preferences during the game, but you can also use it for selecting things from your inventory and similar menus. No, you can't use it to walk around the map, though, which I imagine is what this complaint is primarily about.

The see where you walk/travel trails is configurable in the rc file. I resisted the change to instant travel for a while myself, but eventually gave in and use instant travel now. It's apparently a lot easier on the server to do it this way, which was the motivation for the original change. You do have to trust your auto pickup a bit more, though, because you may not notice an item if you don't find any monsters near it to stop you from running right past it.

I'm not sure what configuration/bad UI really means, I haven't played regular tiles in a while...I think being able to see your inventory at all times, as well as whatever stack you are standing on, are definitely good tiles features that sadly don't exist on webtiles. It isn't too hard to open your inventory/pickup menus, but that's always going to be more work/slower than simply on screen at all times. This one can't be solved, but imho the stat tracking and scoring are a lot more important, though

[Arrhythmia]

Another thing you can use the mouse for is, as a spectator, right click and drag on the minimap to view other parts of the level.

[treerex5]

Rethinking my stance after going over the comments yielded this:

Full mouse support isn't going to happen, but an interface change (showing inventory at all times, ala Tiles) would be very nice, and appreciated by many. Also, perhaps an option to switch between inv at all times and spells/memorization/etc... at all times could be useful... I'm thinking of maybe a button that is linked to a (show X screen above comments at all times) drop down list of available screens to have or such.

Thoughts?

[crate]

I'm pretty sure that if you could code webtiles to work like offline tiles, the devs would like that. Offline tiles is presumably the way it is because that's what the devs think is the best--it has fewer limitations it has to deal with. Webtiles, as far as I understand, was originally something of a hack job and while I'm sure it's improved since then, it would still be quite a bit of work to try to make it work like offline tiles, especially if you want to continue to have it make ttyrecs and be watchable via console.

[Rast]

But everything looks the same in tiles.

[treerex5]

How about this: for 1 turn after exiting auto explore (i.e. key pressed, monster viewed, etc,) a yellow trail is shown on the minimap that represents what tiles you traveled on.

Kind of like this:

Say that the below is the map of the level before auto explore.
=====@=====
===========
===========
===========

After auto explore

=====+======
=======+===
======+======
===+========


= means floor
@ is you

+ are the tiles you traveled over

This would only need to be shown for the length of 1 turn after auto explore, so that you don't need to scroll around the map to see where you went.

Easy problem, easy fix.

[Sar]

That's... exactly how it works already?

[treerex5]

That's... exactly how it works already?

No, they show up on the main map. I mean the minimap above the chat bar.

[KamiKatze]

Actually I would love to see the inverse case: Tiles should look and behave more like Webtiles

* Tiles is just cluttered with too much distracting information I do not need.
* Unintentional mouse clicks in Tiles can have terrible consequences, Webtiles just ignores my mouse.
* The color scale used in Webtiles for indicating how dangerous an adversary is, is completely missing in Tiles. And is IMO by far the fastest feedback for getting alerted when something really bad comes into view.

Still I should not complain, but thank the developers. Without Tiles (and later Webtiles) I would have never started paying such a magnificent game

[Sandman25]

* Tiles is just cluttered with too much distracting information I do not need.
* Unintentional mouse clicks in Tiles can have terrible consequences, Webtiles just ignores my mouse.

You know there are options in init.txt to change this, don't you?