The Tavern

'Ataxia':

A set of dual-wielded demon whips with -5 enchantment and the chaos brand.

Would people use this? It seems like it might make for interesting gameplay.

i was thinking for a good minute and couldnt come up with one good reason to wield that thing

It could be interesting to have a weapon that inflicts lots of chaos effects, but that weapon seems just bad. How about this:
Ataxia - +6 quickblade
Chaos brand applied twice on each attack

Berder wrote:It could be interesting to have a weapon that inflicts lots of chaos effects, but that weapon seems just bad. How about this:
Ataxia - +6 quickblade
Chaos brand applied twice on each attack

I would have suggested something like that if gyre and gimble didn't already occupy the dual-wielded quick-blade slot.

The reason for -5 enchantment is that demon whips are already very powerful on their own, and dual whips with a positive enchantment would be extremely overpowered. If you got some slaying from other sources, the dual dwhip would probably deal decent damage.

Assuming you plan to hit monsters with it, a -5 weapon is bad to a much more severe degree than a +5 weapon is good.

Dual Wielding: An oft-repeated idea that has consistently been shot down as 'never going to happen in Crawl, ever.' See: "Ideas that will never happen in Crawl, ever."

daggaz wrote:Dual Wielding: An oft-repeated idea that has consistently been shot down as 'never going to happen in Crawl, ever.' See: "Ideas that will never happen in Crawl, ever."

And then, Gyre and Gimble was added.

Arrhythmia wrote:
daggaz wrote:Dual Wielding: An oft-repeated idea that has consistently been shot down as 'never going to happen in Crawl, ever.' See: "Ideas that will never happen in Crawl, ever."

And then, Gyre and Gimble was added.

its not dual wielding, just a weird "quickblade" that attacks twice a turn and prevents usage of shields

It's very clearly explained in the flavor text that gyre and gimbal are a single wielded quickbladechuck and not two separate quickblades.

has anyone already made a successful run with the mace of variability?

Gyre and gimble is two unbranded mildly enchanted quickblades. It has some phenomenal damage if you get some slaying, but is not the dual wielding that most people would be thinking of.

We should define dual wielding as wielding two weapons which take up different inventory slots. Gyre and Gimble and 'ataxia' take up one inventory slot, so are really two handed weapons with two attacks/action.

Since we're on the topic of long-declared impossible game adjustments, ignoring G&G, I think the best compromise for dual wielding that the devs might conceivably accept would rip off the boardgame Descent: instead of making multiple attacks, off-hand weapons simply added modifiers to the main-hand weapon's damage output. I'd love to see a parrying dagger added in. Basically it would be a "shield" with 0 base SH value and +3 slaying. Because its base SH is 0, raising the Shields skill wouldn't affect it at all; instead, SH would rise by 1 for every 4 levels of Short Blades. It could only accept an enchantment up to +3, but each point of enchantment would also boost the slaying bonus. In the end you get a weak shield that gives you a nice touch more killing prowess.

Giant Orange Brainbow Dash wrote:Since we're on the topic of long-declared impossible game adjustments, ignoring G&G, I think the best compromise for dual wielding that the devs might conceivably accept would rip off the boardgame Descent: instead of making multiple attacks, off-hand weapons simply added modifiers to the main-hand weapon's damage output.

Like a ring or artefact of slaying?

nicolae wrote:Like a ring or artefact of slaying?

Yes, but making more thematic sense than a shield what makes you kill gooder.

Giant Orange Brainbow Dash wrote:Since we're on the topic of long-declared impossible game adjustments, ignoring G&G, I think the best compromise for dual wielding that the devs might conceivably accept would rip off the boardgame Descent: instead of making multiple attacks, off-hand weapons simply added modifiers to the main-hand weapon's damage output. I'd love to see a parrying dagger added in. Basically it would be a "shield" with 0 base SH value and +3 slaying. Because its base SH is 0, raising the Shields skill wouldn't affect it at all; instead, SH would rise by 1 for every 4 levels of Short Blades. It could only accept an enchantment up to +3, but each point of enchantment would also boost the slaying bonus. In the end you get a weak shield that gives you a nice touch more killing prowess.

that sounds really complicated

a weapon that does more damage but prevents you from using a shield? what a novel idea. nothing like this has ever existed in crawl

duvessa wrote:a weapon that does more damage but prevents you from using a shield? what a novel idea. nothing like this has ever existed in crawl

actually, it would also be a shield

Giant Orange Brainbow Dash wrote:Since we're on the topic of long-declared impossible game adjustments, ignoring G&G, I think the best compromise for dual wielding that the devs might conceivably accept would rip off the boardgame Descent: instead of making multiple attacks, off-hand weapons simply added modifiers to the main-hand weapon's damage output. I'd love to see a parrying dagger added in. Basically it would be a "shield" with 0 base SH value and +3 slaying. Because its base SH is 0, raising the Shields skill wouldn't affect it at all; instead, SH would rise by 1 for every 4 levels of Short Blades. It could only accept an enchantment up to +3, but each point of enchantment would also boost the slaying bonus. In the end you get a weak shield that gives you a nice touch more killing prowess.

thats actually kinda cool

PleasingFungus wrote:
Giant Orange Brainbow Dash wrote:Since we're on the topic of long-declared impossible game adjustments, ignoring G&G, I think the best compromise for dual wielding that the devs might conceivably accept would rip off the boardgame Descent: instead of making multiple attacks, off-hand weapons simply added modifiers to the main-hand weapon's damage output. I'd love to see a parrying dagger added in. Basically it would be a "shield" with 0 base SH value and +3 slaying. Because its base SH is 0, raising the Shields skill wouldn't affect it at all; instead, SH would rise by 1 for every 4 levels of Short Blades. It could only accept an enchantment up to +3, but each point of enchantment would also boost the slaying bonus. In the end you get a weak shield that gives you a nice touch more killing prowess.

that sounds really complicated

To me it sounds like a modified version of the off-hand punch auxiliary attack

The explanation might be kind of confusing, but I just feel like it'd be nice for my stabbers and Long Blades specialists to have another offhand option than a shield. I understand that if you want maximum kill-dudes, a 2-handed weapon is totally the way to go, but Short Blades doesn't come with one, and sometimes you find that irresistible artefact demon blade and don't want to upgrade to a crummy branded greatsword or triple. Anyway, the tl;dr description of the item:

Offhand source of slaying that provides SH stat based on your effective Short Blades skill. Voila. Nutshell'd for your convenience. Now let the idea molder and rot in the hammer pile at the back of Crazy Yiuf's cabin where it belongs : P

I LIKE THAT IDEA

i think the best approach to dual weilding is how we fought us kids growing up around here. we had to fight with sticks cause sticks was all we had and fists. naturally that means clubs for dual weilding. this means no extra coding of new weapons, just make it so you can hold two. i like my idea because of realism and less coding.

The Tavern

Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'

Re: Unique weapon idea: 'Ataxia'