New "playable" species: Gnoll

[dynast]

Humanoid hyenas whose gluttony turned into greed as they went from feasting upon the flesh of their prey to looting the corpses of their defeated enemies. Such greed led them to the appraisal of gems, jewels and magical artifacts leading to the ultimate understanding of those.
Gnolls use their heightened senses of direction and all resources they can gather to feed their hunger for raw flesh and treasure.

Innate Abilities:

Fangs 1;
Blurry vision(slow reading) 3 - Gnoll cannot EVER see invisible creatures(unless they grow antennas, golden eyeballs or worship Ash) and cannot use manuals.
Shaggy Fur 1;
Fast Metabolism 1;
Carnivorous;
Control - Gnolls have ctele(except when they dont);
Gnolls have base Str 8 Int 5 Dex 9 and medium size;

Level Bonuses:

+1 str, int or dex every 5th level;
Everage HP;
20% less MP;
+3 MR per level;

At level 10 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Craft Magical Rod - Use only once. Allows the player to create a Rod giving then a -3 to 0, [6/6] to [9/9] rod of their choice(or not).

At level 15 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Rod Recharge - Costs 5 MP, hunger, exhaustion. Recharges a rod(and only a rod) to its maximum number of charges(this does not increase its enchantment level).

Skill aptitudes:

Fighting +1;
Short Blades -1;
Long Blades -2;
Axes 0;
Maces & Flails +2;
Polearms +2;
Staves +2;
Unarmed Combat 0;

Throwing +2;
Slings 0;
Bows -1;
Crossbows +1;

Armour +1;
Dodging 0;
Stealth -1;
Shields 0;

Spellcasting -2;
Conjurations -5;
Hexes 0;
Charms -2;
Summonings -1;
Necromancy -1;
Translocations +1;
Transmutations 0;

Fire -2;
Ice -2;
Air 0;
Earth 0;
Poison 0;

Invocations -1;
Evocations +5;

Experience 0.

[Sandman25]

At level 10 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Craft Magical Rod - Use only once. Allows the player to create a Rod giving then a -3 to 0, [6/6] to [9/9] rod of their choice(or not).

At level 15 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Rod Recharge - Costs 5 MP, hunger, exhaustion. Recharges a rod(and only a rod) to its maximum number of charges(this does not increase its enchantment level).

I love this idea but I think it probably should be a divine ability of new god.

[XuaXua]

At level 10 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Craft Magical Rod - Use only once. Allows the player to create a Rod giving then a -3 to 0, [6/6] to [9/9] rod of their choice(or not).

At level 15 Gnolls receive the following ability:
Rod Recharge - Costs 5 MP, hunger, exhaustion. Recharges a rod(and only a rod) to its maximum number of charges(this does not increase its enchantment level).

I love this idea but I think it probably should be a divine ability of new god.

It should cost XP. I was going to (resurrect) post on one of those item-manufacturing threads that the cost should be XP. As it stands, this beats Deep Dwarves, who lose 1 permanent MP.

[dynast]

I love this idea but I think it probably should be a divine ability of new god.

The Craft ability could be removed, considering it has become easier to find a shop selling rods(or fund one wtih gozag), but i dont see anything wrong with the recharge one considering other species have unique abilities of their own.

[Sar]

so you really like Evocations

[Sandman25]

so you really like Evocations

Evocations is the best skill in the game, it's a small version of crawl in itself. What other skill can give you magic bolts, clouds, hex-like effects, summons, penetrating javelins, storms, multiple nets, 20+ MP restoration? Did I miss anything? Use cards then: Tomb, Elixir, Fortitude, Mercenary etc.

[dynast]

so you really like Evocations

Touche.

[Lasty]

I know DD starts w/ a species-specific item, but I'd much prefer that species do not inherently get certain items, particularly end-game quality ones. Further, giving player gnolls an affinity for rods (and evo in general) raises the question, why don't monster gnolls ever have rods? Gnolls really aren't a race associated with evocations in crawl at present.

Not being able to read manuals is arbitrary (why can they read spellbooks?) and rarely matters, since manuals are very rare.

+5 to Evo is completely silly, and -5 to Conjurations feels both gratuitous and irrelevant, since you'll be using a rod anyway. Overall, the aptitudes lean towards "very good", with +1 to Fighting and +2 to several weapons, +1 or 0 on most defensive skills, and decent aptitudes on a variety of magic schools. Oh, and good mutations aside from crippling blurry vision.

Aside from being absurdly good at evocations (and just very strong overall) and having end-game rods from an early level, what's the role this species is trying to fill? It looks like the idea is "race that's very strong in almost every way and has free loot but offsets all of that with blurry vision".

[dynast]

I dont consider rods to be end game material, far from it, you usually get access to it by the end of orcish mines, plus we are talking about a -3 rod with 6 charges, no matter what it is you can only use it once during a fight and takes very long to recharge or until you reach xl 15.

[gammafunk]

Control - Gnolls have ctele(except when they dont);

I'm not even joking, lines like these are what make me read a species proposal posted in tavern every single time (except when I don't).

[Sar]

To be fair he probably meant -CTele areas and that gnolls have no special interaction with them.

[twelwe]

i don`t get whats so special. all species have ctele, except when they don`t.

[Pereza0]

Alright, I will now proceed to say lots of bad things.

I am not sure how this fits the gnolls and how they are portrayed in DCSS. Maybe it would be a better fit for some other race.

Completely restricting SInv is a bad call. SInv is hard enough to find by itself, It can result in unfair deaths from Unseen Horror and it will stay annoying for the entire game.

Blurry vision should reach rank 2 tops, and it should do so later in the game, once the player might have found tools to deal with it. Not having manuals available also sounds like a random drawback that doesn't really add much - many players won't find one for the entire game and it is a nice surprise when you find one.

The other mutations are fine I guess, not particularly interesting either. Having inherent cTele could be interesting for some other proposal, but it doesn't feel "organic" here, it just seems like it was slapped on top of everything else. Also, Blurry Vision 3 + cTele makes Scrolls of Teleport almost useless for this species. cTele has to go, probably.

I also dislike both abilities, this species is way too centered around rods. The cost for rod recharge is probably too low too. And it starts helping at level 10 which is way too late for a species with blurry vision.

Species is a bit bland besides relationship with evocations

Now the good things.

I do like the idea of a race with a special relationship with evocations, but this should probably go beyond giving them +5 aptitude (probably overkill considering how powerful evocations can be at low levels, should be lower) and it should also probably extend to items besides rods.

I like the idea of a gnoll species, they are cool.

So here are some ideas for abilities that could make them more interesting:

* Toggleable ability: Powering evocable items
This is an innate ability that can be freely toggled (but takes a turn of course) - it significantly enhaces the power of your magical items when you use them, at the cost of some MP. This includes wands, rods, cards and pretty much anything.

Making it non-toggleable might be more interesting too, but it would probably need more discussion. Very significant drawback. Shared MP pools could be used to discourage magic a little bit if that is what the proposal is aiming for.

* Activable ability: Channel Power
This is an emergency use ability. When you use it you are inflicted yellow (or higher) skill drain, but you will be able to use an empty magical item at extremely high spell power or a non-empty magical item at very high power.

[tasonir]

Control - Gnolls have ctele(except when they dont);

I'm not even joking, lines like these are what make me read a species proposal posted in tavern every single time (except when I don't).

I'd say this proposal was a fairly Everage proposal.

[dynast]

Completely restricting SInv is a bad call. SInv is hard enough to find by itself, It can result in unfair deaths from Unseen Horror and it will stay annoying for the entire game.

What happens to the everage character that does not find Sinv before meeting a unseen horror, do they have a fair death?

Blurry Vision 3 + cTele makes Scrolls of Teleport almost useless for this species.

As a escape option? Yes, thats the point.

I also dislike both abilities, this species is way too centered around rods. The cost for rod recharge is probably too low too. And it starts helping at level 10 which is way too late for a species with blurry vision.

If you gonna disregard everything else then gnolls can use rods and only rods. By default, all species can recharge their rods by resting. Exhaustion means you cant abuse the recharge during a fight. Drain/xp effects (like other people suggested) will only punish you instead.

Species is a bit bland besides relationship with evocations

Again, disregarding blurry vision and being able to control teleport and the direction of your blink.

I do like the idea of a race with a special relationship with evocations, but this should probably go beyond giving them +5 aptitude (probably overkill considering how powerful evocations can be at low levels, should be lower) and it should also probably extend to items besides rods.

I just put those values on aptitudes to show how good Gnolls would be at something in comparison to something else, it has not been balanced.

* Toggleable ability: Powering evocable items
This is an innate ability that can be freely toggled (but takes a turn of course) - it significantly enhaces the power of your magical items when you use them, at the cost of some MP. This includes wands, rods, cards and pretty much anything.
Making it non-toggleable might be more interesting too, but it would probably need more discussion. Very significant drawback. Shared MP pools could be used to discourage magic a little bit if that is what the proposal is aiming for.

Thats a bad mutation that is already in the game and should stay only as a mutation. Also cards are nemelex territory.

[Pereza0]

What happens to the average* character that does not find Sinv before meeting a unseen horror, do they have a fair death?

They usually do. When you start meeting them you are usually at the point you can start getting runes and visiting shops at Orc and Elf:1-2 so your chances of finding it are not bad. Escaping Unseen Horrors is not too bad. Disabling SInv entirely basically makes all of this very annoying, for Unseen Horror and for other monsters like Ghost Moths for no good reason. If anything, they could get an enhanced Sense Invisible to compensate - you get the usual accuracy penalties but you can tell where things are.

As a escape option? Yes, thats the point.

I dislike that. First, permanent cTele is extremely overpowered with Blink. Second, toggleable cTele would be very overpowered with Teleport. Third, permanent cTele would screw with Teleport - control should not be a drawback disguised as a benefit.

Blurry vision is more than enough to make Teleport and Blink Scrolls less effective, and +Blink and +Tele items remain good alternatives if they show up.

If you gonna disregard everything else then gnolls can use rods and only rods. By default, all species can recharge their rods by resting. Exhaustion means you cant abuse the recharge during a fight. Drain/xp effects (like other people suggested) will only punish you instead.

I feel this could probably be tweaked and could be discussed further, but the thing is, this would make rods ridiculously overpowered. With the regular mana amounts and regeneration 5MP is nothing, and exhaustion doesn't do much either if you have many charges. So you are basically a conjurer that doesn't run out of mana, and moreso if you carry a handful of rods with you.

What I proposed would make it something more situational instead of something you use on every fight as soon as you get the chance.

Again, disregarding blurry vision and being able to control teleport and the direction of your blink.

No, I am not disregarding it. They are still kind of bland with them IMO. This is subjective but I feel those drawbacks don't really tie in so well with their strengths. Vine Stalkers, Formicids, Octopodes, Deep Dwarves are examples of this done well.

I just put those values on aptitudes to show how good Gnolls would be at something in comparison to something else, it has not been balanced.

I understand. But when you put specific numbers of stuff you are also putting up these numbers to scrutiny.

Thats a bad mutation that is already in the game and should stay only as a mutation.

The same could be said about stasis, regeneration, etc...
I am no sure it should work exactly like the bad mutation. And I feel it is interesting in the sense that, yes, it will be suboptimal for 99% of characters but it is not strictly bad. Much like stasis

Also cards are nemelex territory.

Not exclusively, especially now that they are evoked without wielding them even without worshiping Nem

[dynast]

I could use your Sinv argument to pretty much anything else in the game if you want go that far(every possible resource that the game has to offer that i do not have access to makes the game more "annoying").

If you could choose between annoying, bland or overpowered, which one would you pick to describe this species?

[Pereza0]

I could use your Sinv argument to pretty much anything else in the game if you want go that far(every possible resource that the game has to offer that i do not have access to makes the game more "annoying").

If you could choose between annoying, bland or overpowered, which one would you pick to describe this species?

I would choose annoying for now. Not that I don't see potential here.

And no, it doesn't necessarily apply to anything else. Less total HP, Stasis, lack of body armour, fire vulnerability, slower speed are amongst others examples of more significant drawbacks that are nowhere as annoying as completely eliminating SInv from the game. Its mostly an interface thing