What is your favorite Ds mutation? Which is most helpful?

[Gakhan]

So i've been trying for a demonspawn win -mainly DsAK, and i like the auto mutation roulette, i dislike some and believe they are wasteful for my build, ie. sharp claws, but i could be mistaken, which are the most useful in mid/end game for a mainly melee char (using axes or spears.. cant decide)

[Gakhan]

and since im already a mutating abyss freak of nature i tend to drink potions of mutation and cut up and eat mutating chunks lol, not sure if thats a good idea yet but so far it tends to help more than hurt, had rPois/+10% HP/+4 Int/and some other decent stuff on my char last night, got squished in V:5 though lol (forgot i was a AK and corrupt could of saved me)

[Sar]

Random muts are rather bad.

Ds muts are mostly very good and helpful.

[dornbeast]

So i've been trying for a demonspawn win -mainly DsAK, and i like the auto mutation roulette, i dislike some and believe they are wasteful for my build, ie. sharp claws, but i could be mistaken, which are the most useful in mid/end game for a mainly melee char (using axes or spears.. cant decide)

For my part, I tend to treat Demon spawn like they're even more random than they look until I know if they're going monstrous or not. (As an aside, I like that it's announced with the first mutation. I don't remember that from before, but I missed two updates.)

Once I know that, then I decide what to do - unarmed, or with a weapon, or whatever.

On the other claw, I've splatted more DS than I care to think about, so what do I know?

[Gakhan]

ive yet to try unarmed.. maybe next time i get claws ill give it a try, and man ive splatted probably 100+ Ds in the last couple days lmao

[Jarlyk]

Demonspawn are one of my favorite races to play as I also enjoy discovering the random traits as I level up. For me, it's about figuring out how to leverage the mutations I get for the most benefit, rather than considering whether each mutation is good or bad for my 'build'. Pretty much all of them can be useful, though the body slot mutations can definitely be disheartening if they happen to displace a particularly nice item. For instance, I found a hat of the Alchemist in my current game, but couldn't wear it because of my horns. Really not so different from finding some amazingly good item on a species that's just missing the slot, but still stings a bit.

The random mutations you get from potions and chunks are a different story, though. The biggest issue is that some of the bad ones you can get are really bad (as in, will probably kill you, bad), whereas even the best of the good ones are just a small boost. I've had games where I felt like messing around and played mutation roulette, but it's never really worked out in my favor in the long run.

My advice for playing a Demonspawn (or any character, really) is don't start with a long term plan. Think about: what am I going to do to survive for the next few levels? Not: what am I going to be using to kill things when I'm in Zot? The traits you get, in combination with the items you find, will start to guide you along some course. But don't be afraid to change directions if a good opportunity arises. With your relatively flat aptitudes, there aren't huge biases toward training one thing or another, so think about what you've got and how you can use it.

One of the most useful things I've learned so far in crawl is that there is a rapidly diminishing return on investment as you put XP into skills. In addition, there are a lot of really powerful options that you can open up with a relatively small skill investment. So if a mutation seems like it's bad for your build, how about: how can I adjust my build to make it good?

All that said, I think my favorite mutation is Powered by Death; it saves a lot of tedium in resting between fights.

[Gakhan]

thank you, i will try to be more open in the future, i got claws on this game so ill see about trying unarmed

[Gakhan]

oh yeah, i would say my favorite Ds mutation is the demonic guardian that helps, later i get two sometimes, and using a spear i can stand behind them in corridors and stab stuff over there shoulders lol

[Sar]

Demonic Guardian is much less helpful if you use any form of ranged attack.

[tasonir]

Sharp claws are goddamned amazing and you should switch to UC as soon as you get them.

But, to answer the original question, mana shield. Getting guardian spirit AND double mana regeneration? Yes please.

Negative energy resistance (the tier 3 set) might also get an honorable mention for black mark (basically vamp attacks).

I basically like things that make it impossible/really hard to run out of hp, because, if you haven't noticed, that kills you.

[duvessa]

favourite: augmentation
most helpful: probably nightstalker
least favourite by an overwhelming margin: demonic guardian
least helpful: probably black mark since it does nothing until XL26, but spiny also does almost nothing i guess

[Gakhan]

maybe i have been trying to play Ds wrong, which is a good chance by how many times i splat

[Gakhan]

have to say without my four demonic guardians popping up that player ghost would definitely have just killed me xD

[Gakhan]

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Gakhan/Gakhan.txt -- current meatbag, got claw 3 aux attack, and my guardian, and i still say i like them, distractions while you run/shields to stab through and once it goes to 2 ok for dealing dmg and killing things

[Gakhan]

most helpful: probably nightstalker

--
does -3 LOS mean less squares you can see? is stealth that good for the loss of vision?

[duvessa]

LOS is reciprocal. If you can't see a monster, it can't see you.

[celem]

most helpful: probably nightstalker

--
does -3 LOS mean less squares you can see? is stealth that good for the loss of vision?

The misunderstanding here is that loss of vision is in some way bad. At all time in this game your threat scales with the number of visible tiles, this is the cap on how many bad guys can see you (and therefore act upon you) at once. Its also why lantern of shadows is so OP. As mentioned above, bad guys in crawl dont actually see a set number of squares, they dont really do any 'see check'. If you see them, they see you. (barring Inv)

My favorites are probably claws, spirit shield and the AC/HP scales (rugged brown). I dont pick a melee option for my demonspawn until the heritage starts to show. For this reason I tend to take 'pure' book starts to avoid getting any weapon skill at all. Because Claws.

[Thalfon]

I've got an augmentation/ignite blood/powered by death Ds in play atm. I've had hellfire before on one, but I think ignite blood might just be more fun. While you have to play at least somewhat conservatively with hellfire due to it damaging you, ignite blood is just free and goes off all the time, even if you're fighting enemies that don't bleed (since you do). Plus it regularly gives you safe spots to stand in for avoiding AOE cloud effects (made Swamp a lot less painful in a game where I have four runes and no rPois).

It's kinda hard to tell how much Augmentation is changing things, since you can't just 'unequip' it to get a feel for the difference, but I'm tearing through pretty much everything with a +4 lajatang of slicing, so it's certainly helping.

[Sar]

Aug is something like 4/8/12 slay at max HP depending on your mut level, which is a lot.

[Gakhan]

You have reached level 8!
Your demonic ancestry asserts itself...
Your hands twist into claws. --
and i have hooves and my favorite guardian helpers lol, lets see how unarmed plays out,got UA skill at 6.7

EDIT- and at lvl 9 i got horns lol, do aux attacks stack?

edit-- succumbed to poison at lvl 11.. damn snakes and spiney frogs

[scorpionwarrior]

Is Black Mark still around in trunk? It adds a vampiric brand to your attacks 20% of the time and applies antimagic, weakness (whatever that does) or slow. The vampiric even works on undead and demons

[Jarlyk]

When you get a bunch of body-slot mutations like that, it means you're playing a 'monstrous' Demonspawn. They're a bit tricky, as you wind up losing a lot of armour slots over time. Personally I've never had very good luck with them and they wind up dying early deaths.

[Gakhan]

ive never gotten far with a monstrous Ds either, just had a nice Ds working,exp lvl 15 and i lost my nice +2 boots with +3 slay +Rc +(something else- Sinv i think) and it hurt me,before i lost them i had near +10 slay and some other nice artefacts... but i like when the mutations hit tier 3 early, like this Ds char has slimy scales 3 before i even finished clearing D:2. rPois is nice, not having it has killed me a hundred times

edit-- and char is quickly killed by grinder..mother fu...

[dynast]

I like the following combos:

powered by pain + makhleb;
Blackmark + okawaru;
nightstalker + antennae + darkness for some sneak tornado;
spiny + walking naked for a fast reroll.

[Gakhan]

my normal mid lair mutations - You have hooves in place of feet.
You are partially covered in large bone plates (AC +2, SH +2).
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
You regenerate magic rapidly.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
You are dopey. (Int -2)
You are resistant to hostile enchantments.
Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You evolve. --

when i finally do luck up and win im gonna be a mutated super freak

[Turukano]

Demonspawn are in fact very popular. I asked Sequell to show some numbers (I only took the top ten species):

Played games: !lg * s=race

3938638 games for *: 433105x Demonspawn, 365167x Deep Elf, 248023x Minotaur, 198056x Spriggan, 193653x High Elf, 173594x Mummy, 167727x Octopode, 162868x Hill Orc, 144852x Merfolk, 129701x Draconian...

Won games: !lg * won s=race

25234 games for * (won): 2464x Minotaur, 1853x Demonspawn, 1404x Gargoyle, 1333x Hill Orc, 1188x Deep Elf, 1182x Spriggan, 1143x Merfolk, 1102x Deep Dwarf, 918x High Elf, 874x Ogre...

15-runers: !lg * won urune=15 s=race

5277 games for * (won urune=15): 515x Minotaur, 473x Gargoyle, 421x Demonspawn, 386x Deep Elf, 279x High Elf, 239x Merfolk, 220x Naga, 210x Hill Orc, 206x Mummy, 182x Vine Stalker...

************

Have a look at the following topics if you like:

• spindart: Don't know how to play DemonSpawn, Feb 2014
• Lyrick: If you could choose your demonspawn muts, Apr 2014
• LJFCAT: A simple fan request, Oct 2014

[edgefigaro]

Ignite Blood + Shield of Reflection + vaults 5 was some of the most fun I have ever had in crawl.

[Aean]

Think I'd have to go with either the mana shield or the negative energy resistance set of mutations.

The mana shield provides spirit shield and amazing mana regen, making it useful for both melee (think extra health and regen) and casters (mana regen, less chance of being accidentally one-shotted).

And the negative energy resistance...rN+, as well as 50% immunity to torment, plus black mark, which works against even the toughest opponents. I killed Cerebov with a melee Ds who had it, and finished the battle only 23 health short of max. It's awesome to deliver a powerful blow to a big bad, and use it to heal back the damage he did to you. Especially since you get that ability on top of the enchantments and brands on your weapon of choice.

Monstrous mutation sets seem like they should be helpful, but I've yet to win even a 3-runer with one. Somehow, they always get splatted fast.

[Jarlyk]

Just thought I'd put in an honourable mention for robust. It's not the most exciting mutation, but +30% HP is a pretty big boost.

Also, I have to concur with duvessa that nightstalker is actually the most helpful. I finally got a 15-rune win with a Demonspawn and I'm pretty sure nightstalker saved him several times when trying to keep various tormentors/smiters/hellfirers out of LOS. It helped that I had Ash, though, since I could actually see where the monsters were even outside LOS. It shines the most in the later game (when you have Haste and can manipulate monster positioning better), but it's still useful if you get it early for priests, centaurs, etc. Also goes nicely with early stabbing (which I took advantage of this last game), even if you don't use that as your main form of damage later.

[Hirsch I]

ignite blood is the funniest thing in crawl and I love it so much.

[duvessa]

I would be ok with ignite blood if spectral weapon didn't exist.

[Thalfon]

I have spectral weapon and ignite blood isn't the worst thing to have with it. I don't seem to take damage when the weapon burns in a cloud, so it's just the annoyance of having to recast it a bit more often. Through four runes I haven't had a fight where that was an issue *and* I shouldn't have been running away anyway. At worst it's kinda irksome.