The Tavern

[Edit: The project mentioned in this OP has since been completed. All wiki information on decks and cards has been updated and are centrally accessible from those topics. Thanks to all for the input and corrections.]

I'm in the process of completely overhauling the wiki with respect to decks and cards. The main page on decks has been completed, and a separate page for cards has its seed in an up-to-date list of cards. The new cards page will have a table showing what decks each card can be found in, which I have built, but have yet to convert to the wiki code. These past two days have been spent playing with the game code, rather than the game, and the fruits are now beginning to show. In the end, each card will have its own page, the individual deck pages will be the history of that deck's contents, and the shuffling of the decks in the game should be an issue no longer with keeping it updated and current on the wiki.

Let me know what you think, and certainly point out if you find any errors.

Thanks.

Aule wrote:I'm in the process of completely overhauling the wiki with respect to decks and cards. The main page on decks has been completed, and a separate page for cards has its seed in an up-to-date list of cards. The new cards page will have a table showing what decks each card can be found in, which I have built, but have yet to convert to the wiki code. These past two days have been spent playing with the game code, rather than the game, and the fruits are now beginning to show. In the end, each card will have its own page, the individual deck pages will be the history of that deck's contents, and the shuffling of the decks in the game should be an issue no longer with keeping it updated and current on the wiki.

I think that a page per card might be overkill.

I thought so at first, too, but there's no way around it given the continuing shuffling of these decks. Though the cards themselves are not items, they are virtually so, being selectively manipulated for particular effects, with some being changed, others being removed, and still more being added. It's the simplest way to track these changes, since it can no longer be relied upon that the deck structures won't significantly change. It also helps immensely when searching for them, which is perhaps the most important thing in a wiki. I'm finding the single-page look tidy, having finished about a third of them, each with its own little history. When the project is complete, I think you'll like the navigability of it all.

Completed.

Here.

Very impressive!

e: it looks like there's only 0.16 information for the newly added cards?

Wow this is awesome.

PleasingFungus wrote:Here.

ARCHETYPE ISN'T AN ADJECTIVE!!!!

PleasingFungus wrote:Here.

Very impressive!

Thanks for the nice review! (and the link - D'oh!)

e: it looks like there's only 0.16 information for the newly added cards?

No excuses. I probably left gaping holes all over the place in the blue haze of gettin-r-done. Please, if you see anything you could add, then do, if you're signed up. I gleaned the nonexistent data from perfunctorily browsed code (0.5 through 0.16) and the development change log. I'm sure I missed a lot.

Edit: oh, and there hadn't been any updates to the wiki's cards/decks since 0.14, so there was nothing to go on there for the 0.15 cards. That's what I meant by nonexistent. What data I found just to build the structure likely missed the nuances of functionality changes across versions. That certainly should be done. Also, the console images alongside the tiles icons need to be added to the summoning cards. And the tables need to be prettified. They're just hideous. I didn't study that part very well either.

Wiki says about Illusion:

The Illusion card summons an illusion of the player to fight alongside, and functions like Mara's ability. Because most characters must be wielding a deck to draw this card, the illusion will be treated as though it were wielding the weapon in your inventory set to item a (or b if the deck is a).

Is that right? Learndb says:

Prompts you to wield a weapon, and summons an illusion of you (like Mara's) that wields your weapon and has a limited spell list based on yours.

In 0.15, I seem to remember that it prompted to wield a weapon.

Sprucery wrote:Is that right? Learndb says:
Prompts you to wield a weapon, and summons an illusion of you (like Mara's) that wields your weapon and has a limited spell list based on yours.

In 0.15, I seem to remember that it prompted to wield a weapon.

The only code difference between the 0.15 and 0.16 routines for this card appears to be the line that says

Code:: _do_weapon_swap();

It is removed in the 0.16 code, unless my code is swapped...

What I'd really love to see is new code embedded in these and other routines, made specifically and descriptively for official documentation so that iterating code bases may be crawled by bots for updates.

Crude example:

Code:: //dox-purpose:"Creates an allied player illusion." //dox-details:"blahblahblah..."

Something like this may be desirable as the code base grows ever larger and as iterations remain frequent. In this way, the coders and devs themselves supply the "official" text of their handiwork, as part of its construction.

In 0.16 Illusion card doesn't prompt for a weapon swap any more (since you can use decks from inventory).

In 0.15 it asked you to wield a weapon after you drew it.

Aule wrote:What I'd really love to see is new code embedded in these and other routines, made specifically and descriptively for official documentation so that iterating code bases may be crawled by bots for updates.

Crude example:
Code:
//dox-purpose:"Creates an allied player illusion." //dox-details:"blahblahblah..."

Something like this may be desirable as the code base grows ever larger and as iterations remain frequent. In this way, the coders and devs themselves supply the "official" text of their handiwork, as part of its construction.

We do in fact try to document our code (using Doxygen), but the codebase is very large, and generally uncommented; my policy has been to document newly-added and modified functions, but it's a slow project. (Also, our documentation is generally intended for developers, rather than players - though there's overlap between the use cases.)

A couple of (mostly) documented files: describe-spells.cc, godblessing.cc. Probably the internal workings of the functions could do with more description in the function comments (steering closer to _tso_bless_follower's comment than _beogh_bless_follower's): otherwise, how do you tell if something is a bug or intended functionality?

Patches are always welcome, in any case.

Can we remove decks and Nemelex from the game as soon as he is done?
-Xom

The Mercenary card can summon merfolk.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Mercenary_card

???

To be a little more productive, the list of mercenaries produced by the mercenary card in 0.15/0.16 is:

big kobold, merfolk, naga, tengu, deep elf conjurer, orc knight, random base demonspawn (no class), ogre mage, minotaur, random base draconian (no class), deep elf blademaster.

0.14 had:

big kobold, merfolk, naga, tengu, orc knight, centaur warrior, spriggan rider, ogre mage, minotaur, random base draconian (no class), deep elf blademaster.

I love the mercenary card so damn much. a little less now that your merc can not pick stuff from the floor. can you get demonspawns? I did not know that. he can level up and get a class? the idea of evolving allies is one of the coolest in Crawl, starting with Beogh.

xentronium wrote:The Mercenary card can summon merfolk.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Mercenary_card

PleasingFungus wrote:To be a little more productive, the list of mercenaries produced by the mercenary card in 0.15/0.16 is:

big kobold, merfolk, naga, tengu, deep elf conjurer, orc knight, random base demonspawn (no class), ogre mage, minotaur, random base draconian (no class), deep elf blademaster.

0.14 had:

big kobold, merfolk, naga, tengu, orc knight, centaur warrior, spriggan rider, ogre mage, minotaur, random base draconian (no class), deep elf blademaster.

Hirsch I wrote:I love the mercenary card so damn much. a little less now that your merc can not pick stuff from the floor. can you get demonspawns? I did not know that. he can level up and get a class? the idea of evolving allies is one of the coolest in Crawl, starting with Beogh.

fixed

Hirsch I wrote:I love the mercenary card so damn much. a little less now that your merc can not pick stuff from the floor. can you get demonspawns? I did not know that. he can level up and get a class? the idea of evolving allies is one of the coolest in Crawl, starting with Beogh.

Draconians, nagas, tengu, merfolk can evolve and get a class/classes.
Demonspawn, big kobolds (why do we still have big kobolds as mercenaries anyway?), minotaurs, ogre mages, deep elves blade masters will only get more HD and its benefits.
Orc knights, deep elves conjurers and get their classes improved

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Bones_card
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Foxfire_card
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Herd_card
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Rangers_card
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Repulsiveness_card

Also fixed/updated with icons/glyphys.

Hirsch I wrote:I love the mercenary card so damn much. a little less now that your merc can not pick stuff from the floor. can you get demonspawns? I did not know that. he can level up and get a class? the idea of evolving allies is one of the coolest in Crawl, starting with Beogh.

I got a merfolk mercenary in my last game, and he/she had a vampiric trident! I kept it alive through lair and it became an impaler. I made a positioning mistake and the merc died in snake, and after that I pretty much lost interest in the character and died shortly afterwards.

There was an idea for a permanent ally god some time ago..
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10468&hilit=permanent+ally+god

My opinion has been that any reduction in utility for allies (like the removal of equipment swapping) is a step down for anyone who actually used allies.

My opinion is generally not the popular one.

I think the removal of ally equipping was a incredible improvement for Beogh, but a downgrade for Merc card and Gozag. I mean, Gozag did not need a nerf at all.

Hirsch I wrote:I think the removal of ally equipping was a incredible improvement for Beogh, but a downgrade for Merc card and Gozag. I mean, Gozag did not need a nerf at all.

by 'gozag', do you mean 'yred'

if not, what on earth are you talking about

In 0.15 bribe branch gave permanent allies IIRC

it does not anymore?

rockygargoyle wrote:In 0.15 bribe branch gave permanent allies IIRC

do you mean 'allies that you had to re-bribe regularly''?

if people were actually using those as pseudo-mercenaries over a long enough time for equipment swapping to matter, then I can see why that mechanic was removed

(though I could have sworn that no-mon-pickup predated gozag's implementation... maybe it didn't predate gods branch?)

it is very possible that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. :oops:

How does Illusion work with regard to spells? Do you have to have a certain failure rate before Illusion casts the spell? In particular, is it worth it to memorise a high-level attack spell you wouldn't normally yet use, just to get the Illusion to cast it?

In the arcetype deck description section, deck of Summoning, trunk, links for the Crusade and the Dance point to wrong pages.

Sprucery wrote:In the arcetype deck description section, deck of Summoning, trunk, links for the Crusade and the Dance point to wrong pages.

fixed. (good catch, btw)

Sprucery wrote:How does Illusion work with regard to spells? Do you have to have a certain failure rate before Illusion casts the spell? In particular, is it worth it to memorise a high-level attack spell you wouldn't normally yet use, just to get the Illusion to cast it?

IIRC, it uses the same logic as player ghosts & (sort of) spellforged servitors: fail rate must be below 50% for the illusion to cast it.

This is just off the top of my head; I may be wrong.

Sprucery wrote:arcetype deck

you all do violence to this language

Forum FR: put a Spank button next to the Thank button.

INB4: "damn, i misspanked. how do I unspank a post?"

I'd spank Arrhythmia

I, too, would spank Arrhythmia.

The Tavern

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