Tree Form => Slouch?

[Tressol]

I know that Slouch's damage is based on how much "faster" the opponent moves than you... So, if anyone knows, what happens when you can't move (because you're a tree)?

[tasonir]

I believe your speed is unchanged and it should do the normal damage. It's possible that your speed is reset to 10 and it does normal-speed damage if you were a different speed to begin with, but I'm not sure about this. In short it should be basically a normal slouch, it won't instant-kill everything.

[Tressol]

That seems reasonable. Insta-killing everything or crashing Crawl would be a bad result. :p

[Arrhythmia]

Even if it did count as "0 speed", because damage grows linearly with distance it would only be doing "quite a bit" rather than "catastrophic division by zero".

[Lasty]

tasonir is right. The only forms that change player movespeed are bat, pig, porcupine, wisp, and hydra (in water).

Edit: if you have innate fast/slow movespeed, changing forms overrides that movespeed. With the exception of the above forms, it overrides your movespeed to 10.

[ebering]

No slouch is not linear. From _slouch_monsters (called by cheibriados_slouch()). Setting treeform movement speed to zero makes the code sad.

  Code:

int dmg = (mon->speed - 1000/player_movement_speed()/player_speed())

The variable name is kinda meh, the actual damage rolls dmg*4d3 damage dice.

I do think that turning yourself into a tree is a pretty Cheibriados thing to do and that you should get a slouch bonus. Bare minimum it would make !lig not purely bad (no still really bad but hilarious).

Edit: reading what player_movement_speed() does bigger numbers are slower so I guess zero would mean you move dumbly fast. setting player movement speed to 1000 in tree form (slouch everything!) feels like it should be super op.

[ebering]

After some testing of the new & improved 'tree gambit' in wiz.

V5 gets rekt. Just pure destroyed. Two slouches and the welcoming party was gone, fast enough that nothing super dangerous came looking. Though that was my draw on the RNG. If something nasty wakes up though it might be really bad since if you are a tree you are stuck.

Cerebov on the other hand was not having any of it. Slouched until Chei would no longer help me and Cerebov was standing and then I died because tree.

I put the patch on mantis but I have no idea what its balance implications are. Mostly I think it just makes Tree+Slouch consistent with what you would expect. Trees do not have move_speed 10.

[damiac]

But trees are too stiff to slouch anyway...

[Lasty]

!lig isn't pure bad. Until you get fairly high AC through armour it's a decent defensive potion in a lot of situations -- you get a boatload of AC and extra HP, and if you use UC you get high base damage that doesn't chop hydra heads. It also give rPois and negative energy immunity.

The level of AC it gives makes pretty much any early game monster or unique except Sigmund trivial (his scythe keeps him out of range and he has fire attacks). It's also pretty strong against hydrae if you have any kind of decent non-head-chopping offense, since that level of AC makes their attacks fairly weak.

Obviously the usefulness trails off once monsters start hitting harder and once you have a more complete set of armour to meld.

[Hirsch I]

!lig is awesome design, IMO.
it is strong in some conditions, and terrible if misused. it adds power to who knows how to use it, but increases difficulty for the ones that dont. perfect.

[Sprucery]

I agree. The last time I used a !lig I had 1 HP left and was standing next to an orc warrior (in early D). The 26 AC I ended up with was enough and I managed to kill the orc. I also remember once having been saved from a pack of killer bees by !lig. It's a great emergency item for some situations.

[and into]

I started a wanderer once that had a couple of potions of lig and a quarterstaff, that was a lot of fun. !lignification is my favorite purple item.

[notcluie]

!lig reasons: you can shatter tomb without needing lichform/ddoor
oh and i guess being able to use gscs was cool too (rip)