Proposal: armor ego that reduces spellcasting penalty

[Hurkyl]

I propose a new ego (mithril?) for body armor whose effect is to reduce the spellcasting penalty given by the armor, or maybe to reduce the encumbrance rating.

The inspiration for this ego is the old elven racial attribute: an early game spellcasting character could reasonably expect to be able to cast spells in elven ring mail, and for mid-late game, it was even reasonable to expect to cast in elven scale mail without huge experience requirements.

I found this a bit interesting, since it gave casters a way to bump up their defenses a bit, but at the expense of getting a resistance (or other robe ego) in their body armor slot. The lighter dragon armors would be better choices than mithril armor, of course, but they are also rarer and come later (and have an extra resistance attacheD)

[Psiweapon]

What about allowing armor generate with the Wizardry ego under special circumstances?

Just like you can get about aything (helmets or whatever) of rF+ in a volcano.

[Sar]

Why would you want to cast in a scale mail? It requires wearing a scale mail!

[duvessa]

Wizardry was a robe ego in old versions.

[SaidTheAlligatorKingToHisSon]

without reading any posts, "elvish"

I miss racial armours.

[KoboldLord]

We already have armor that provides an improved ratio of AC bonus vs. casting penalty. You actually mentioned them in your post. Why would we need another version that is basically similar but is guaranteed not to provide even a good-to-useless resistance?

[Quazifuji]

without reading any posts, "elvish"

I miss racial armours.

If you did read any posts, you would have seen that this was the inspiration for the post in the first place.

Anyway, I like the idea, personally, but can't think of anything particularly interesting to say about it besides giving it my support.

[XuaXua]

Wizardry was a robe ego in old versions.

It's just Robe of the Archmagi now, right?

[Hurkyl]

We already have armor that provides an improved ratio of AC bonus vs. casting penalty. You actually mentioned them in your post. Why would we need another version that is basically similar but is guaranteed not to provide even a good-to-useless resistance?

It was a bit of fun and variety we used to have, but it got lost in the change to remove racial bonuses to equipment. The only motivation is to recapture that bit of fun and variety.

It's not like we don't already have examples of early game items going obsolete -- e.g. demon tridents obsolete regular tridents.

If we actually wanted this to expand the space of armor choices, the details could be tweaked; e.g. mitrhil scale mail could be easier to cast in than a swamp dragon armor.

[Sandman25]

Wizardry was a robe ego in old versions.

It's just Robe of the Archmagi now, right?

Archmagi improves spell power and does not change spell failure rates. Wizardry has the opposite effect - improves spell failure and does nothing for spell power.

Edit. This is why Dithmenos is better than Vehumet when you have a way to channel mana and don't need wizardry boost provided by Vehumet.

[stickyfingers]

That isn't really what I'd call "opposite". Also, I believe several versions ago archmagi did both of these.

[Sandman25]

That isn't really what I'd call "opposite". Also, I believe several versions ago archmagi did both of these.

I guess you would not call (0, +3) the opposite to (+2, 0) and you are probably right, (0, -3) is more similar to "opposite" indeed.

[XuaXua]

Archmagi improves spell power and does not change spell failure rates. Wizardry has the opposite effect - improves spell failure and does nothing for spell power.

Glass is half-empty for Sandman25.

[KoboldLord]

We already have armor that provides an improved ratio of AC bonus vs. casting penalty. You actually mentioned them in your post. Why would we need another version that is basically similar but is guaranteed not to provide even a good-to-useless resistance?

It was a bit of fun and variety we used to have, but it got lost in the change to remove racial bonuses to equipment. The only motivation is to recapture that bit of fun and variety.

It's not like we don't already have examples of early game items going obsolete -- e.g. demon tridents obsolete regular tridents.

If we actually wanted this to expand the space of armor choices, the details could be tweaked; e.g. mitrhil scale mail could be easier to cast in than a swamp dragon armor.

It's a bit of variety that still exists, only with another name. A set of 'mithril-branded' scale armour would be just as uncommon as any particular other armour brand, and there would be no particular reliability to getting one early that you don't already get with dragon armours. Another way to express the same concept would be to put the existing protection brand on lighter body armour, but that would be redundant too. Mithril scale armour as you propose it is basically komodo dragon armour with a slightly different coat of paint on it, with specific AC and encumbrance values to be determined.

[Sandman25]

Archmagi improves spell power and does not change spell failure rates. Wizardry has the opposite effect - improves spell failure and does nothing for spell power.

Glass is half-empty for Sandman25.

Sorry, I don't understand. Probably caused by my English again but it is quite possible to improve both good and bad things in my native language (bad becomes less likely to happen and/or have less awful effect, good becomes more likely to happen and/or have more powerful effect)

Edit. sorry about offopic.

[duvessa]

Robe of wizardry was just wizardry. Robe of the Archmagi was originally wizardry + enhancer for most schools + 75% penalty to experience gain. Later it was changed to just be an enhancer for all schools. I don't remember when exactly robe of wizardry was removed.

[SaidTheAlligatorKingToHisSon]

Glass is half-empty for Sandman25.

Sorry, I don't understand. Probably caused by my English again...

Off-topic: This just means you're a pessemist, requires a lot of familiarity with the English language. If you place a glass of water in front of someone and ask them to describe it, an optimist would describe the glass as half-full, a pessimist would describe it as half-empty.

And for the nerds who abound on this forum, they would reply that the glass is half as large as it needs to be

If you did read any posts, you would have seen that this was the inspiration for the post in the first place.

Almost on topic, I sometimes do this to keep my response from being biased by responses and the OP. Without mentioning this someone would assume I was just lazy. Of course this still happens so eh.

On topic, I think the distribution of armours is fine, no need for a wizardry ego to generate. Maybe if someone really wanted could have robes generate wizardy as was done previously so I can get fire storm up faster, but even then archmage is going to be better usually.

[duvessa]

And for the nerds who abound on this forum, they would reply that the glass is half as large as it needs to be

why would we want the glass to be 75% empty

[Sar]

it's 25% full you negative nancy

[SaidTheAlligatorKingToHisSon]

why would we want the glass to be 75% empty

I actually typed that the glass is twice as large as it needs to be, I just used my Jedi mind powers to trick you because I am infallible.

[Sandman25]

Off-topic: This just means you're a pessemist, requires a lot of familiarity with the English language. If you place a glass of water in front of someone and ask them to describe it, an optimist would describe the glass as half-full, a pessimist would describe it as half-empty.

Oh, I see now, there is exactly the same phrase in my language. I wrote spell failure because this is what crawl displays in all spells screens. Crawl is a pessimist, not me

[Siegurt]

The glass is all the way full (half with water half with air) (Now that is what the nerd says)

[njvack]

Back on topic: it's worth noting that Shadow Dragon Armour and Quicksilver Dragon Armour are now in trunk. There are a lot of armours now. I'm not seeing the need for a special armour ego.

I *could* see {Wiz} generating on body armour randarts (can it already?), which might make an otherwise slightly underwhelming armour more interesting for some characters.

[XuaXua]

I was about to mention those dragon armour (from hides, or by way of PDA?) so I could get away with stating that an optimist would have referred to those as spell "success" rates.

[stickyfingers]

Pda is from hide, it's just that hide is rarer than armour itself. Qs and especially shadow hides should be more common.

[Sprucery]

The glass is all the way full (half with water half with air) (Now that is what the nerd says)

The glass is almost completely empty at all times, since the most part of atoms is just emptiness.

[Sprucery]

It's a bit of variety that still exists, only with another name. A set of 'mithril-branded' scale armour would be just as uncommon as any particular other armour brand, and there would be no particular reliability to getting one early that you don't already get with dragon armours.

Yes. The removal of (branded) elven ring mails was a slight nerf, since those pieces of armour were found typically much earlier than dragon armour. Personally I liked the flavour, but I guess the change itself wasn't too drastic. I think I miss elven boots and cloaks more.

[1010011010]

The glass is almost completely empty at all times, since the most part of atoms is just emptiness.

Emptiness or probability density functions? in which case the glass is overflowing.

[savageorange]

The glass is almost completely empty at all times, since the most part of atoms is just emptiness.

Emptiness or probability density functions? in which case the glass is overflowing.

The glass in your mind is full of probability density functions. The glass in the real world contains no probability density functions.

[neil]

The glass in your mind is full of probability density functions. The glass in the real world contains no probability density functions.

One could argue that Bell's theorem shows that whatever is "really" in the glass must behave rather more like probability density functions than like objects with definite values for their attributes.

(Perhaps this would be a better topic for CYC, though)

[njvack]

Indeed

[Psiweapon]

ON TOPIC:

This is the exact purpose that elven armor fulfilled back in it's day. It was not too great a factor, but it was useful (elven ring mail > ring mail)

Of course that alone doesn't justify the whole slew of racial equipment there was, but it was a nice effect.

[1010011010]

Why does armour effect cast rates at all?

[XuaXua]

Why does armour effect cast rates at all?

Armour is purportedly bulky and hindering; therefore the precise movements coordinated with incantations required for spellcasting are degraded, unless you are skilled/strong enough to overcome the hinderance. Even then, the bulk of the armour still degrades spellcasting ability to a degree.

[Sar]

so you couldn't wear a crystal plate and cast fire storms without putting in at least some effort

[Arrhythmia]

The glass is almost completely empty at all times, since the most part of atoms is just emptiness.

Emptiness or probability density functions? in which case the glass is overflowing.

The glass in your mind is full of probability density functions. The glass in the real world contains no probability density functions.

If electrons aren't probability density functions and are instead discrete particles they'd fall into the nucleus in approx. 1 nanosecond.

[SaidTheAlligatorKingToHisSon]

Well Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle tells us that at a specific curvature of space, knowledge can be transferred into energy, and this is key now.. matter. With regards to the glass's fullness, a conscious observer should be able to fill the glass to the desired level with the knowledge of the glass's fullness. However, the knowledge must be certain in order to ensure that the Uncertainty Principle is fulfilled. Remember, there is no spoon.

[nicolae]

Well Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle tells us that at a specific curvature of space, knowledge can be transferred into energy, and this is key now.. matter. With regards to the glass's fullness, a conscious observer should be able to fill the glass to the desired level with the knowledge of the glass's fullness. However, the knowledge must be certain in order to ensure that the Uncertainty Principle is fulfilled. Remember, there is no spoon.

I'm not sure that I agree with you a hundred percent on your physics work, there, Lou.

[Hirsch I]

but quantum physics say that if the glass can not observe the world, it has no soul, therefore can not be filled by willpower. (without a green lantern ring, of course.)

[and into]

Well Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle tells us that at a specific curvature of space, knowledge can be transferred into energy, and this is key now.. matter. With regards to the glass's fullness, a conscious observer should be able to fill the glass to the desired level with the knowledge of the glass's fullness. However, the knowledge must be certain in order to ensure that the Uncertainty Principle is fulfilled. Remember, there is no spoon.

I'm not sure that I agree with you a hundred percent on your physics work, there, Lou.

Well, if you aren't 100% sure on this work here, you could at least have some idea of its velocity.

[Hopeless]

Is this a prime example of Nino?