God Proposal: Phat

[Siegurt]

God Proposal:
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Phat, the god of corpulence and gluttony:

Appreciates:
Eating permafood and Drinking (potions: esp confusion) while full or above,
Killing hungry ghosts, Minotaurs, Harpies.
Deprecaites:
Being hungry or below

Mummies and Ghouls cannot worship Phat.

Powers:
..... : Insatiable appetite
....* : Celebration of good tidings
...** :
..*** : Share good fortune
.**** : Taste of a foreign land
***** : Overwhelming gluttony

Insatiable appetite (passive):
You may eat anything at any satiation level, Eating takes half as long as normal

Celebration of good tidings (passive):
Eating or drinking anything heals you some hps in addition to it's normal effect,
the amount of healing is based on piety (up to a full potion of healing at max piety)
(Yes this means drinking a potion of healing heals you twice)

Share good fortune (passive):
When you are subject to any of a number of effects
(paralysis, confusion, petrification, slow, haste, invis, regen, fly, might, agil, brill, poison, drain, fear, sick, rot, weak)
every creature in LOS makes a HD-based save (Vs your piety) or is subject to the same effect, note this can effect creatures normally unable to be effected by hexes,
but it can't subject a creature to a condition that it's racially immune to
(so for instance you can slow or confuse an ancient lich (who is magic immune),
but cannot effect it with poison or rot because undead)
Confusion being Phat's favorite, it has a higher likelihood of effecting monsters than most other effects

Taste of a foreign land (active) (2 mp, target potion, small piety cost):
By activating this ability you can sample cuisine from afar, every potion consumed with taste of a foreign land
has additional random effect(s) on top of the healing and regular potion effect, invocation increases the
chances of additional effects beyond the first.

Overwhelming gluttony (active) (20mp, large piety cost):
For a short time your body consumes all of it's resources, boosting your HP and MP
regeneration by incredible amounts,
and increasing your food consumption by an equally large degree.
The duration and boost are effected by your invocation skill.
(When I say incredible, I mean incredible, I'm thinking you consume something like a
ration every 4 turns, and this lasts at the top end maybe 20 turns, I want to see this
sink you through your hunger levels from engorged to near-starving, and give you something
like 10 hp and 4 mp/turn with high invocation)

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This is about 50% a silly suggestion, and 50% a serious one.

It's sort of been rolling around in my head for some time, and i thought I would post it, because why not?

[cerealjynx]

This sounds Pretty Hot And Tempting.

[The Ferret]

I actually like the proposal. A god based around messing with the hunger/food mechanic seems cool. Maybe a caster-targeted god that doesn't interface with the spell mechanic?

Putting a twist on it...

Phaenereb the Bountiful.

Phaenereb is the god of plenty. Phaenereb's acolytes are provided with food as they prove their dedication. Especially devoted practitioners may fill their foes with a ravenous hunger, or even deprive their bodies of nutrition.

Phaenereb appreciates

• Praying over corpses, though this may not bring you above ** piety.
• Consuming permafood. Gain 1d4+1 piety.
• Drinking potions. Gain 1d3 piety.

Piety effects

• * When you are Starving, Phaenereb supplies you with food. Gain X satiation per turn until you are Near Starving. (Passive)
• ** Phaenereb's bounty is expanded. When you are Near Starving, Phaenereb supplies you with food. Gain X satiation per turn until you are Very Hungry. (Passive)
• *** Phaenereb's bounty is expanded. When you are Very Hungry, Phaenereb supplies you with food. Gain X satiation per turn until you are Hungry. (Passive)
• **** Cause Hunger: for a short time, all enemies in LOS are inflicted with the Hunger status. Melee enemies cannot hit as hard, and ranged enemies cannot... range... as hard (their maximum damage is reduced by Piety/X, and their roll adjusted accordingly). Caster enemies find casting spells difficult -they are inflicted with a Piety/X spell failure rate. (Piety)
• ***** Famine: all enemies in LOS are inflicted with (piety/X) levels of the old drain status. (Or some similar generalized weakening effect.) (Big Piety)
• ****** Phaenereb's bounty is expanded. When you are Hungry, Phaenereb supplies you with food. Gain X satiation per turn until you are Satiated. (Passive)

The problem, of course, is that spell hunger is not a serious concern past the early game.

[Siegurt]

Hunger is never a problem anywhere in the game.

My suggestion, you'll notice, isn't about *mitigating* hunger (Because that's not useful) it's mostly about status-effects and healing, using hunger, eating, and drinking as a backdrop/theme. The idea here is to create an interesting effect *around* hunger, which in and of itself is fairly boring and not really all that challenging.

Hunger currently mostly acts as a stopgap against certain pathalogical behaviors, I figure as long as it's in the game, we might as well do something fun with it.

[and into]

For first ability, I'd just say eating anything takes 0.5 aut.

Another idea for an ability:

Cornucopia. Passive. Every time you quaff a potion, you have a piety-scaled chance for that potion not to be used up (i.e., you get a freebie).

[1010011010]

Best hunger based god I've seen. Boons for eating is a much better angle than it's easier to find food.
How about Exploration*hunger status for piety building?

Is share of good fortune checked each turn you're under effect?

How reliable is taste of a foreign land? is seems a bit similar to of Gozag's potion petition?

The 20mp cost on Overwhelming gluttony seems counter productive to its mp regeneration.
does your Overwhelming gluttony status reflect onto enemies via share of fortune.

A more boring ability would be amplifying potions:

Purify potion(active)(5mp, target potion, small/medium piety cost):
Boost potions effects: Agility/might/brilliance get larger stat boosts, Haste/invis/berserk/lig/resist/flight get longer durations, cure/benmut/mutation/experience work 1.5 times as well rounded randomly, (strong)poison/confusion/degeneration/decay/paralysis etc have double share of good fortune effect, heal wound/curing/magic/cancellation/restore abilities have double effect (Celebration of good tidings happens only once), (coagulated)blood/porridge have a nutrition boost.

[and into]

Another ability idea I'll throw out there:

Greater Gluttony. Active. 4 mp, piety cost. For a period of time, all enemies in LOS that suffer damage may have satiation drained from them to you; if successful the enemy has a "starving" status inflicted upon them, which prevents the use of special abilities for a short period of time and also gives them negative slaying malus. The starving status is not shared by the "Share good fortune" ability.

[Greyr]

Another God idea: "The Shits"

[Siegurt]

Another ability idea I'll throw out there:

Greater Gluttony. Active. 4 mp, piety cost. For a period of time, all enemies in LOS that suffer damage may have satiation drained from them to you; if successful the enemy has a "starving" status inflicted upon them, which prevents the use of special abilities for a short period of time and also gives them negative slaying malus. The starving status is not shared by the "Share good fortune" ability.

Well, since monsters don't natively have hunger or satiation levels, we'd be making up some new artificial system and overlaying it onto monsters for this to be possible, while not impossible, it sounds overly complicated for just "They get a negative status that causes them to do less damage" If we went this route, I'd just impose the status directly.

However "damage adds a malus to attack proficiency of monsters" is problematic in it's own right, it's not like once you engage a creature, it's going to take long to kill it, the things you want to impose that sort of malus on, are the things that you haven't gotten to attack yet, and who will have the greatest oppourtunity to attack you.

And, while not a make-or-break thing, I find the concept of a god who's theme is about being engorged and overconsumption, having a power that starves critters a bit contradictory, if the abilitiy was especially apt and fit mechanically very well, a little shoe-horning from a theme perspective would be worth it, but I don't think this ability would be especially worth it.

The 20mp cost on Overwhelming gluttony seems counter productive to its mp regeneration.
does your Overwhelming gluttony status reflect onto enemies via share of fortune.

Indeed really the 20mp is intended to offset the huge amount of MP you're going to gain back rapidy by using the ability, the idea here is to prevent it from being an ability you can just pull out when you're drained of MP, to get yourself back into fighting shape, rather, you have to commit to it early (in that sense I envision it a little like berserk)

And no, overwhelming gluttonly doesn't reflect onto enemies. ("Hey, everybody regens and can't make any headway on killing anything" doesn't sound like much fun, and plus enemies don't eat food)

How reliable is taste of a foreign land? is seems a bit similar to of Gozag's potion petition?

Well, the difference here is you don't get to decide which effect you want, you just drink a potion and get it's effect, plus some random effect(s) (Which may be shared by share of good fortune) The idea here is that you're hoping to just spam everything in LOS with debilitating effects, and hopefully thin the ranks before you recover and go to town on them.

Is share of good fortune checked each turn you're under effect?

No, only once when you initially come under the effect.

[Hirsch I]

I love how the god of glutonny is called "Fat".

[and into]

Another ability idea I'll throw out there:

Greater Gluttony. Active. 4 mp, piety cost. For a period of time, all enemies in LOS that suffer damage may have satiation drained from them to you; if successful the enemy has a "starving" status inflicted upon them, which prevents the use of special abilities for a short period of time and also gives them negative slaying malus. The starving status is not shared by the "Share good fortune" ability.

Well, since monsters don't natively have hunger or satiation levels, we'd be making up some new artificial system and overlaying it onto monsters for this to be possible, while not impossible, it sounds overly complicated for just "They get a negative status that causes them to do less damage" If we went this route, I'd just impose the status directly.

However "damage adds a malus to attack proficiency of monsters" is problematic in it's own right, it's not like once you engage a creature, it's going to take long to kill it, the things you want to impose that sort of malus on, are the things that you haven't gotten to attack yet, and who will have the greatest oppourtunity to attack you.

And, while not a make-or-break thing, I find the concept of a god who's theme is about being engorged and overconsumption, having a power that starves critters a bit contradictory, if the abilitiy was especially apt and fit mechanically very well, a little shoe-horning from a theme perspective would be worth it, but I don't think this ability would be especially worth it.

To clarify, I wasn't saying "add a hunger system to enemies," I was simply suggesting a status effect (called "starving" so as to fit the theme) that would be a binary, you'd tag monsters with it or not, like Slow. And it would be temporary. You'd have a chance to trigger it against any enemy in LOS that suffers damage while the ability is active, I think that's plenty good for a lot of situations; the damage malus would perhaps be most noticeable early on, whereas the "no special abilities" would be really, really good later. I was trying to sell it as "The god imbues you with such all-consuming gluttony that you drain the satiation of your enemies," but admittedly the flavor (pardon the pun) leaves something to be desired.

Fair enough if you just don't like the idea, of course, but I do think the god needs some other strong, possibly definitive ability aside from what you get at near-max piety. But then, I suppose that might hinge on what bonus effects you get from the foreign cuisine ability (although that comes online pretty late, at ****... maybe move that down to ** and have the power of the effects scale up with piety or something?)

[Siegurt]

Well, it's not so much the "activated ability that gives enemies an attack malus" so much as it being triggered by damage done.

I think another ability (if one needs to be added) might look like allowing actions that are normally prohibited under certain status effects, being able to read scrolls or cast spells while confused (admittedly with the standard targetting penalty) would both be interesting and powerful.

[Hopeless]

This reminds me of a series I read last year called "The Soldier's Son" which dealt with gluttony and odd magics stemming from it (among many other things.)

[ZipZipskins]

I think there's a serious missed opportunity regarding gifts (or "loot") being granted by this god.

[Hirsch I]

gifts are boring.

[Siegurt]

Agreed, gifts don't seem like they'd be a good fit here, and there's not a way to make them interesting in this context.

[Sharkman1231]

Why not have the ability inflict the weakness status? It's really uncommon already (Black mark & orange demon are the only sources if I recall, maybe eyv wrath(?))

"Hunger gnaws away at your enemies, diminishing their strength."

[ZipZipskins]

no I wasn't seriously suggesting gifts, it's phat l- oh never mind

[Siegurt]

Why not have the ability inflict the weakness status? It's really uncommon already (Black mark & orange demon are the only sources if I recall, maybe eyv wrath(?))

"Hunger gnaws away at your enemies, diminishing their strength."

Mm, do you mean "Share good fortune"? Yes, that should probably share weakness (I probably just missed it when i was listing out status's that would get shared)

Or were you meaning "as that activated ability that someone sort of proposed" which would be Ok as an ability, although I'm in favor of a more focused design, trying to cram every idea in the sun into one god isn't good design.

Let's try this: If you have a suggestion to make with regards to changing the proposed design, explain not only what the suggestion is, but why you think it improves the proposal (Some people have done so already, but some have not)

I think there's a serious missed opportunity regarding gifts (or "loot") being granted by this god.

no I wasn't seriously suggesting gifts, it's phat l- oh never mind

Ah... now I understand

[ZipZipskins]

I don't think I could possibly be more serious.

[and into]

Regarding healing: Do chunks heal?

Will "share good fortune" trigger on effects that you cause, such as zapping self with enslavement, and/or post-berserk slow?

The reason I suggested another active ability for the god is that you have two active abilities (that rely on invocations, no less), one of which comes online at four stars, the other at five.

I'm not sure that having to eat a ration every few turns while under the effects of gluttony would be very fun. Maybe just a "hyperactive metabolism" ability that does the same thing, and sets your hunger level to the bottom of near starving when it ends? The 20 mp cost also seems over the top.

[Sharkman1231]

I was talking about and into's greater gluttony idea. An offensive ability to drain satiation from enemies to you, inflicting weakness, rather than a new starvation status.

[Siegurt]

Regarding healing: Do chunks heal?

yes

Will "share good fortune" trigger on effects that you cause, such as zapping self with enslavement, and/or post-berserk slow?

Well, you can't enslave yourself (it only works if the status actually has an effect on you) but yes if you cause a status that actually effects you, it will trigger (Note that both the berserk and the post-serk slow will trigger the effect)

The reason I suggested another active ability for the god is that you have two active abilities (that rely on invocations, no less), one of which comes online at four stars, the other at five.

This is actually intentional, Taste of a foreign land is intended to be a 'lead in' to using invocation, it has a decent effect with no invocation, and scales up with more invocation, useful game-altering passives early then good invocations later is actually a natural progression for most people, XP is scarce earlier, and more plentiful later, I think it's actually a good idea to have a god that doesn't require invocation right off the bat

I'm not sure that having to eat a ration every few turns while under the effects of gluttony would be very fun. Maybe just a "hyperactive metabolism" ability that does the same thing, and sets your hunger level to the bottom of near starving when it ends? The 20 mp cost also seems over the top.

Well, keep in mind that it's going to refund the 20 mp pretty quickly, part of the point is that this is something you have to commit to early, but if this ever goes anywhere obviously the costs and benefits would need to be fiddled with to get the right numbers. Something that refunds any MP is going to need to have a large MP cost to start with if it's not to be used "when my mana gets low"

Eating something every few turns would actually heal you and take up turns, so deciding when to use your food wouldn't be a no-brainer decision, however I can see how going the other way (taking to you the bottom of near starving at the end) would result in less complexity for the user.

[and into]

Enslavement against self causes—or at least used to cause—confusion. (Maybe it just has no effect now, that may have been changed around the time wand-IDing was changed.) Anyway, I got it that the passive ability is intended to share whatever status you have with others. I don't really see how that would jive with a god that encourages you to use potions and also possibly adds potion effects to your food. Anytime you use haste on yourself, you cast an HD-resistable haste on all enemies in LOS? I don't think it would be overpowered to have the ability share good effects with allies, and bad effects with enemies, but not vice-versa. (Or rather this could be balanced by the chance for the effect to occur.) I see the potential for creative use of !confusion + a well-timed !curing, and the like, but seriously if a god tried to apply might/agility/haste/berserk etc. on all enemies in LOS any time I used those effects on myself, I would never play that god.

The reason I suggested another active ability for the god is that you have two active abilities (that rely on invocations, no less), one of which comes online at four stars, the other at five.

This is actually intentional, Taste of a foreign land is intended to be a 'lead in' to using invocation, it has a decent effect with no invocation, and scales up with more invocation, useful game-altering passives early then good invocations later is actually a natural progression for most people, XP is scarce earlier, and more plentiful later, I think it's actually a good idea to have a god that doesn't require invocation right off the bat

Okay, that makes sense, but I think you could move taste of a foreign land to ** so that the god has more going on for it earlier in the game. This doesn't mean the god requires you to train X amount of invocations, rather it confronts you about when to train invocations, and how much, earlier—that is, as you say, precisely at the point where such a decision is really meaningful.

(I often train invocations early on AK or on Fedhasites, for example, and only slightly later for Zinnies; however, exactly when and how much I train invoc. isn't a no-brainer, because I still haven't gotten my weapon to min-delay, and I would also like to have more dodging and/or armor. Forcing people to make tough calls as to what they prioritize is a good thing, so I think the god should give some reason to train invoc. before ****.)

[and into]

Ah, enough picking and poking. FWIW, this is what I'd do with the theme, take or leave any of the ideas of course. (What was it Godard said? In order to criticize a film, you have to make a film...)

Phireis, the Jovial

Ghouls, Vampires, Mummies, and (of course) Demigods need not apply.

Likes:
When you find food or food shops. Bonus points for killing monsters that consume food without enjoyment of its life-giving properties: Hungry Ghosts, Harpies, Ghouls, Necrophages, Jellies, etc. Small piety over time for exploring new areas while at sated or above.

Dislikes:
When you are hungry. (Increased rate of piety decay at "Hungry" or below.) Casting Necromutation will result in excommunication.

Upon joining:
True gourmand (cancels out vegetarianism). You may eat at any level of satiation, even when already engorged. Eating takes exactly 1 aut, regardless of the food eaten. Your "engorged" range is expanded. When you first worship Phireis, your satiation will be set to maximum.

* Good Tidings. You gain some HP and a small amount of MP from eating permafood (not chunks). Amount of HP/MP gain scales up based on piety and nutrition of the food eaten.

** Strange Herbs. Active, 3 mp, piety. For a period of time, Phireis will spike any permafood you consume with exotic ingredients that engender marvelous but unpredictable effects. Duration of these effects scale upward based on piety and nutrition of the food consumed.

*** Shared Fortune. Passive. Negative status effects that you suffer may be inflicted upon enemies in LOS. Positive status effects may be shared with your allies. Chance scales up based on piety.

**** [Improved Good Tidings.] Eating permafood will restore stats, rotted HP, and will help alleviate drain. More nutritious food will give greater restoration.

***** Hyperactive Metabolism. Active, 7 mp, large piety. Can only be used at Very Full or higher satiation. Temporary buff that grants increased movement speed, and vastly increased regeneration of HP and MP. This is not shared amongst your allies via "Shared Fortune." When the effect expires your satiation is set deep into "Near Starving."

[Siegurt]

Don't forget you get to control who is LOS when you drink a potion.

I'm honestly not terribly sold on 'taste of a foreign land' in the first place, the idea was to be able to spam effects more quickly, but it seems like it'd be a not-very-well-used ability as written, so even moving it to earlier wouldn't really make invocations particularly appealing.

I think, particularly if it's moving earlier in the piety set, you'd want an activated ability that did something predictably, because if you're going to spend XP and turns and MP on something in the mid-earlier part of the game it needs to have an effect that you can depend on to fulfill some specific need, you don't have lots of spare XP, so you're only really wanting to spend XP and turns and Mana

That being said, an activated ability that was dependable could certainly take the place of that one, one that was a better as a lower tier ability, a weakness-applying ability, would be ok, but I don't have a lot of confidence that I would be inclined to use it often. It might be worth it depending on how good the weakness was as a malus on monsters.

The thing that comes to mind immediately both in terms of power level and theme is allistair's intoxication, but since that's already a spell it'd have to be not-that

[and into]

Spitballing some "strange herbs" effects. These would all be temporary effects and would not be shared with allies. All of these effects would give a similar, decent amount of glow, to prevent scumming as well as buff-stacking.

Rejuvenating Circulation: You will regen HP quickly so long as you are moving
Defiant: You gain +AC if you stand your ground (no movement for a while)
Fiery Hiccups: You expel short-lived puffs of flame on random adjacent squares not occupied by allies
Chaotic Wake: You leave a trail of short-lived, damaging random clouds
Camouflage: Enemies will tend to lose track of you when you aren't attacking them (i.e., you can't get stabs this way)
Equilibrating Genius: All stats are set equal to your highest stat
Brief Insubstantiation: You may pass through a single-tile rock wall, door, plant, tree, as if nothing were there.
Dazzling Aura: Enemies adjacent to you may become dazzled for a short period of time.
Healthful Magic: You will gain some HP for spending MP.