bloaxcrawl or whatever

[Bloax]

Basically a bunch of changes that I like that aren't huge, clunky and probably completely insane.

Hp/Mp regen increase + Player melee damage averaging

  Code:

Health regeneration is changed from [MaxHp/300] (if the result is < 0.2) or [0.1 + MaxHp/600] (if MaxHp/300 >= 0.2) per turn to [0.1 + MaxHp/300] per turn.
Basically, if you have 120 maxhp, you'll regenerate 0.5 hp/turn instead of 0.3 hp/turn.
At 24 maxhp you'll regenerate 0.18 hp/turn instead of 0.08, and at 9 maxhp you'll regenerate 0.13 hp/turn instead of 0.03.

Mana regeneration is changed from [0.07 + MaxMp/200] per turn to [0.1 + MaxMp/100] per turn.
Which means that at 12 maxmp, you'll regenerate 0.22 mp/turn instead of 0.13.
At 24 maxmp you'll regenerate 0.34 mp/turn instead of 0.19, and at 48 maxmp you'll regenerate 0.58 mp/turn instead of 0.31.

Pre-AC damage is now the average of three 1dX rolls instead of a single 1dX roll. This actually reduces your effective damage by 1-8%, depending on how much-little damage you do.
But if you do a lot of damage then there won't be as many "why won't this bugger DIE" moments.

Give octopodes three extra auxiliary tentacle attacks and set their <= 0 apts to +1 (Not available in latest build [RIP]) ((you can still play the old one though))

  Code:

Octopode aptitudes are now +1 across the board (except poison magic/evocations which remain at +2, and stealth at +4).
Which basically means that they get +1 to everything except those three skills and +2 to spellcasting.

This is one of the truly "weird little things" that I've had for Op, but I think it's good to have a race that *can* spread its skills out and isn't shoehorned into any specific set of skills.
and besides, octopi are known for being smart. let's make them learn good

Their existing auxiliary has its 33% chance to fail roll removed (which means that it now triggers if str+dex >= 1d49).
They also get 3 extra (somewhat weak) auxiliaries whose chance to trigger is highly dependent on your str+dex;
they all have str+dex >= 1dx checks alongside the usual str+dex >= 1d49 check - and two of them have an additional 33% chance not to trigger.

The auxiliaries help Op be strong in melee, and don't get out of hand unless you have humongous stats (and that either comes too late for it to matter or carries its own set of issues).
They're still squishy squid squashers, so even a really strong Op^Chei can suffer a sudden end against a deep troll pack if you get cheated by their offensive might. (Beware the overconfidence cost!!)

Make skills and stats affect accuracy (much more), and make the result less spiky

  Code:

Accuracy gained from weapon skill is doubled, accuracy from fighting is almost doubled (1.75x instead of 2x).
The final accuracy roll is now averaged over two rolls.
This averaged final accuracy roll also gets an extra round of the stat bonus on accuracy, so stats suddenly have a pretty big effect on accuracy.

All this makes player accuracy /actually exist/, which I think is a Good Thing. (And after all, isn't that what these changes are about?)
Missing everything at very high skill levels is unusual for any game, and usually because it's just plain terrible and frustrating.

(??i should probably fix up ranged accuracy too??)

Currently running as bloaxcrawl on DBRO (outdated :[) and available as offline builds. (Tiles/Console)

comments are go

[Sar]

casual

[Bloax]

it's only casual if you go slow like a casual

[Sar]

just like sonic right

[Bloax]

gotta go fats

fatst liiek sanic

[Bloax]

I felt like updating it to the latest trunk version tonight.
Otherwise nothing new, besides including a two select unique tiles of mine that aren't in the game.

[tasonir]

I haven't yet played this, but you are my savior and I love you.

It's true this is certainly easier than standard crawl, mostly due to faster regen, but I've wanted damage averaging for a long time, and I share your love with octopodes. I'll definitely stat-cheat one (ie, worship Chei) soon.

[XuaXua]

  Code:

Pre-AC damage is now the average of three 1dX rolls instead of a single 1dX roll. This actually reduces your effective damage by 1-8%, depending on how much-little damage you do.
But if you do a lot of damage then there won't be as many "why won't this bugger DIE" moments.

If you're doing that, why not just divide X by 2 and round up?

[johlstei]

More regen seems fine if you also lower max hp to compensate for the additional hp you will gain over the course of a given encounter.

[tasonir]

The triple roll on damage is really, really nice. You don't get one shot like a typical octopode, and combined with decent (~30) EV, it's almost like you have armor.

The huge aux attacks are probably a bit of over kill, but I did have > 50 str+dex by lair, so hey. Regen didn't seem that impactful, but I usually don't wait until full life to keep moving on in regular crawl, so it does help.

+1 to everything is probably overkill. I would probably just bump spellcasting to 0 and keep the "zero everything" going.

cleared lair, orc, and down to D:15. Maybe I'll finish it later, maybe just leave it here. I miss rings of regeneration, but at least I have the amulet.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-1218-g8731af7 (webtiles) character file.

tasonir the Black Belt (Octopode Monk)             Turns: 23606, Time: 01:42:37

Health: 112/112    AC:  1    Str: 28    XL:     16   Next: 7%
Magic:  32/32      EV: 36    Int: 28    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   887        SH:  9    Dex: 35    Spells: 3 memorised, 6 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .       - Unarmed
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     g - +0 buckler {rC+}
rNeg   + . .     SustAb   .     (helmet restricted)
rPois  +         Gourm    .     I - amulet of regeneration
rElec  .         Spirit   .     D - ring of protection from fire
rCorr  .         Warding  .     n - ring of poison resistance
rMut   .         Stasis   .     u - +2 ring of strength
MR     ++...                    e - ring of positive energy
Stlth  ++++......               t - +3 ring of slaying
                                o - ring "Zoil Soem" {+Fly MR+}
                                p - ring of protection from cold
                                V - +3 ring of evasion

@: very slow, very resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy
A: almost no armour, amphibious, 8 rings, constrict 8, camouflage 1, gelatinous
body 1
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Flight


You are on level 15 of the Dungeon.
You worship Cheibriados.
Cheibriados is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 28 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary, Bailey, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 2745 gold pieces.
You have spent 1858 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Missiles
 c - 8 javelins
 d - 33 tomahawks
 m - 4 steel javelins
 R - 4 throwing nets
 Y - 5 poisoned javelins (quivered)
Armour
 g - a +0 buckler of cold resistance (worn)
 E - a +1 buckler of fire resistance
 X - a shield
Jewellery
 e - a ring of positive energy (on tentacle)
 n - a ring of poison resistance (right tentacle)
 o - the ring "Zoil Soem" (on tentacle) {+Fly MR+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [ring of flight]
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 p - a ring of protection from cold (on tentacle)
 t - a +3 ring of slaying (on tentacle)
 u - a +2 ring of strength (on tentacle)
 y - the amulet "Fuiq Yku" {Ward rN+ Dex+3 Int+2}
   (You found it in a bailey)   
   
   [amulet of warding]
   
   It may prevent the melee attacks of summoned creatures.
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 D - a ring of protection from fire (left tentacle)
 I - an amulet of regeneration (around mantle)
 Q - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 T - a ring of protection from fire
 V - a +3 ring of evasion (on tentacle)
Magical devices
 a - a wand of fireball
 v - a wand of heal wounds (5)
 B - a wand of cold
 O - a wand of digging
Scrolls
 i - 4 scrolls of fear
 A - a scroll of recharging
 F - 4 scrolls of identify
 G - 3 scrolls of fog
 H - a scroll labeled GEODAQE BLIUHE
 J - a scroll of magic mapping
 L - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 M - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 N - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 P - a scroll labeled HUETSE GREQIZA
 S - a scroll labeled SHRUUSHY ROTUH
 Z - 3 scrolls of blinking
Potions
 h - 4 potions of resistance
 j - 5 potions of agility
 k - 2 potions of magic
 l - 6 potions of restore abilities
 r - 9 potions of curing
 s - a potion of porridge
 x - 5 potions of invisibility
 K - a potion of cure mutation
 U - a potion of might
 W - 5 potions of heal wounds
Books
 C - a papyrus book {highlevel}   
   This book is beyond your current level of understanding.
Comestibles
 b - 6 bread rations
 f - 3 slices of pizza
 q - 5 royal jellies
 w - 9 meat rations
 z - 17 fruits


   Skills:
 - Level 11.3 Fighting
 + Level 5.7 Throwing
 + Level 15.8 Dodging
 - Level 2.6 Stealth
 + Level 7.5 Shields
 + Level 16.3 Unarmed Combat
 - Level 14.4 Invocations


You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flight                Chrm/Air       #.........   34%         3    ####...
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          17%         2    ###....
d - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      #.........   91%         4    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:10
    Elf (0/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (0/5) Lair:4
 Spider (0/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:7       Vaults (0/5) D:13
Depths: D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:5 [   Orc:4 *([=


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear most types of armour.
You are amphibious.
You can wear up to eight rings at the same time.
You can use your tentacles to constrict many enemies at once.
Your skin changes colour to match your surroundings (Stealth).
Your rubbery body absorbs attacks (AC +1).


Message History

The slime creature closely misses you.
You bludgeon the slime creature! You squeeze the slime creature!
You slap the slime creature. You thwack the slime creature.
The slime creature is heavily wounded.
The slime creature barely misses you.
You barely miss the slime creature. You tentacle-slap the slime creature!
You squeeze the slime creature. You slap the slime creature.
You smack the slime creature. You thwack the slime creature!
You kill the slime creature!
Cheibriados thoroughly appreciates the change of pace.
No target in view!
An eye of draining, a tarantella and 3 boggarts come into view.
The boggart shouts!
The boggart mumbles some strange words.
The boggart flickers and vanishes!
Deactivating autopickup; reactivate with Ctrl-A.
A boggart comes into view.
Welcome back, tasonir the Octopode Monk.
Cheibriados says: Take it easy.
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

............#..### ###...........
######......#.##    g##..........
     #...####.#    {g.#..........
     #...#....##   gG #..........
     #...#.....#  s.  ####.......
     #...#..[.####.  ##..##......
#### #?..#....#... ###....##.....
.........#....#..###.......'.....
#+########....##@##..#...%##.....
...........%%.#.....###..##......
..............##.#..#.####.......
...............######............
.................................
.....##############..############
.....#  ..........#..#...........
.....#  ..........#..#...........
.....# ...........#..#...........


You can see an eye of draining (wandering), a tarantella (wandering) and 3
boggarts.

Vanquished Creatures
  The ghost of Bloax the Spry, a powerful OpGl of Cheibriados (D:13)
  An orc warlord (Orc:4)
  Snorg (Orc:2)
  3 hydras
  Harold (Lair:1)
  The ghost of Mousus6 the Frost Mage, a powerful OpIE of Vehumet (Lair:2)
  A deep troll shaman (Lair:8)
  2 centaur warriors
  7 death yaks
  An orc high priest (Orc:4)
  Urug (Orc:2)
  A catoblepas (Lair:8)
  A skeletal warrior (D:13)
  The ghost of Sphara the Fighter, an experienced OpAM of Okawaru (D:7)
  An ice devil (IceCv)
  3 unseen horrors
  A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  3 hill giants
  2 ice statues (IceCv)
  5 orc knights
  2 manticores (D:14)
  4 orc sorcerers (Orc:4)
  2 lindwurms
  7 ugly things
  A draconian (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  A red wasp (D:12)
  A centaur zombie (D:10)
  2 cyclopes
  3 griffons
  Maurice (Orc:2)
  9 elephants (Lair:8)
  Joseph (D:7)
  7 black mambas
  8 spiny frogs
  2 gargoyles
  3 molten gargoyles (Volcano)
  A kobold demonologist (D:13)
  A centaur skeleton (D:13)
  4 yaktaurs (D:13)
  7 komodo dragons
  2 fire drakes
  A queen bee (D:9)
  A hydra zombie (D:14)
  2 trolls
  A polar bear (Lair:7)
  7 blue devils (IceCv)
  2 hydra skeletons (D:13)
  3 two-headed ogres
  2 fire vortices (Volcano)
  12 slime creatures
  22 blink frogs
  8 basilisks
  3 redbacks
  58 yaks
  2 wyverns
  3 deep elf magi
  2 shadows
  A hill giant zombie (D:9)
  4 wargs
  A steam dragon (D:13)
  3 hungry ghosts
  A hill giant skeleton (D:12)
  10 hippogriffs
  5 vampire mosquitoes
  17 wolves
  5 swamp worms (Lair:4)
  8 water moccasins
  A tengu skeleton (D:13)
  10 porcupines
  A swamp drake (Lair:3)
  8 sky beasts
  A necrophage (D:13)
  3 black bears
  31 orc warriors
  3 yellow wasps
  16 centaurs
  13 ice beasts
  8 ogres
  2 phantoms
  10 crocodiles
  5 boggarts (D:13)
  3 gnoll sergeants
  4 big kobolds
  Blork the orc (D:9)
  A brain worm (Lair:8)
  2 cyclops zombies
  17 giant frogs
  7 water moccasin zombies
  2 insubstantial wisps (Lair:3)
  A yak zombie (D:8)
  An eye of draining (D:14)
  4 scorpions
  5 wights (D:13)
  29 killer bees
  11 electric eels
  3 goliath beetles
  9 crimson imps
  8 hounds
  28 orc priests
  A giant frog skeleton (D:12)
  12 jellies
  10 worker ants
  A basilisk skeleton (D:12)
  13 iguanas
  A kobold skeleton (D:13)
  25 orc wizards
  A killer bee zombie (D:9)
  5 sheep (Lair:4)
  5 big kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  A hound zombie (D:11)
  2 mummies (Ossuary)
  18 gnolls
  90 green rats
  24 adders
  4 shadow imps
  6 white imps (IceCv)
  5 worms
  5 ufetubi (IceCv)
  An adder skeleton (D:4)
  5 adder zombies
  An ooze (D:2)
  122 orcs
  2 ball pythons
  A bat skeleton (D:3)
  5 giant cockroaches
  23 hobgoblins
  10 jackals
  13 quokkas
  14 bats
  A giant gecko (D:1)
  9 giant newts
  2 giant spores
  3 gnoll zombies (Ossuary)
  26 goblins
  A hobgoblin zombie (Ossuary)
  A jackal zombie (D:8)
  22 kobolds
  3 kobold zombies (Ossuary)
  5 orc zombies
  23 rats
  2 ballistomycetes
  A butterfly (Lair:8)
  2 plants
1066 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  4 white imps (IceCv)
  2 ufetubi (IceCv)
  A hobgoblin (Orc:4)
  A giant spore (D:13)
  3 fungi
  2 plants (Lair:2)
13 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1079 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | tasonir, the Octopode Monk, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1
   180 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 21/21 MP: 2/2
   198 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat
   491 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 24/26 MP: 3/3
  1123 | D:2      | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat
  1123 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 19/31 MP: 4/4
  1494 | D:3      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  2096 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 5/36 MP: 5/5
  2278 | D:4      | Noticed a sky beast
  2281 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  2291 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  2297 | Temple   | Killed a sky beast
  2297 | Temple   | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat
  2297 | Temple   | Reached XP level 6. HP: 18/42 MP: 6/6
  2331 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Cheibriados the Contemplative
  2915 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  2936 | D:5      | Found Yggit's Antique Armour Emporium.
  3047 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3089 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 46/46 MP: 7/7
  3163 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat
  3361 | D:5      | Acquired Cheibriados' first power
  3600 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  3881 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 23/52 MP: 12/14
  3888 | D:6      | HP: 2/52 [poison (a potion of poison)]
  4053 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
  4403 | D:6      | Acquired Cheibriados' second power
  4403 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  4501 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  4534 | D:7      | Noticed Sphara's ghost (experienced OpAM)
  4550 | D:7      | Killed Sphara's ghost
  4550 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat
  4550 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 43/57 MP: 17/19
  4765 | D:7      | Noticed Joseph
  4777 | D:7      | Killed Joseph
  5209 | D:8      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  5261 | D:8      | Found a sand-covered staircase.
  5265 | Ossuary  | Entered an ossuary
  5286 | Ossuary  | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  5336 | Ossuary  | Reached XP level 10. HP: 38/63 MP: 21/21
  5471 | Ossuary  | Acquired Cheibriados' third power
  5527 | D:8      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  5634 | D:8      | Found a flagged portal.
  5644 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
  6068 | Bailey   | Got a sparkling garnet amulet
  6069 | Bailey   | Identified the amulet "Fuiq Yku" {Ward rN+ Dex+3 Int+2} (You found it in a bailey)
  6072 | Bailey   | Noticed an orc knight
  6083 | Bailey   | Killed an orc knight
  6083 | Bailey   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
  6604 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
  6656 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 37/67 MP: 24/24
  6674 | D:9      | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat
  6915 | D:9      | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight
  6965 | D:9      | Noticed Blork the orc
  6971 | D:9      | Killed Blork the orc
  7282 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
  7306 | D:9      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  7416 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  7520 | Lair:1   | Noticed Harold
  7533 | Lair:1   | Killed Harold
  8267 | Lair:2   | Noticed Mousus6's ghost (powerful OpIE)
  8279 | Lair:2   | Killed Mousus6's ghost
  8582 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8641 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
  8641 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 77/77 MP: 25/25
  8860 | Lair:3   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
  9100 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
  9290 | Lair:3   | Identified A Primer on Theurgy
  9294 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Frost
  9305 | Lair:3   | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 10381 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 10689 | Lair:4   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 86/88 MP: 27/27
 10854 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging
 10884 | Lair:5   | Found a dark tunnel.
 10896 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 11308 | Lair:5   | Found a frozen archway.
 11334 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 12688 | Lair:5   | Learned a level 4 spell: Control Teleport
 13674 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 13674 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 13930 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 14 in Dodging
 13930 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 76/97 MP: 29/29
 14505 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 15425 | Lair:8   | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 16188 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 16774 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 17177 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 17901 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 18066 | Orc:2    | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 18066 | Orc:2    | Noticed Maurice
 18092 | Orc:2    | Killed Maurice
 18116 | Orc:2    | Noticed Urug
 18127 | Orc:2    | Killed Urug
 18244 | Orc:2    | Noticed Snorg
 18327 | Orc:2    | Killed Snorg
 18562 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 18710 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 18846 | Orc:4    | Paralysed by an orc sorcerer for 2 turns
 18855 | Orc:4    | Noticed an orc warlord
 18859 | Orc:4    | Reached XP level 15. HP: 94/107 MP: 31/31
 18901 | Orc:4    | Killed an orc warlord
 18931 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 18940 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 15 in Unarmed Combat
 19158 | Orc:4    | Found Adoy's Antique Armour Boutique.
 19320 | Orc:4    | Found Umumolao's Jewellery Boutique.
 19351 | Orc:4    | Found Yqionin's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 19387 | Orc:4    | Bought an uncursed ring of protection from cold for 400 gold pieces
 19387 | Orc:4    | Bought the ring "Zoil Soem" {+Fly MR+} for 481 gold pieces
 19732 | Orc:4    | Found Thier's General Store.
 19739 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of recharging for 161 gold pieces
 19835 | Orc:4    | Bought a +3 ring of evasion for 336 gold pieces
 19835 | Orc:4    | Bought an uncursed amulet of regeneration for 480 gold pieces
 21915 | D:13     | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 22020 | D:13     | Noticed Bloax's ghost (powerful OpGl)
 22030 | D:13     | Killed Bloax's ghost
 22358 | D:13     | Reached skill level 16 in Unarmed Combat
 22531 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 23395 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 23465 | D:15     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 102/112 MP: 28/32


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           |    70 |   127 |   169 |   463 |   890 |    16 ||  1735
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |    11 |       |     3 |       ||    14
Throw: Tomahawk          |       |    11 |    20 |    48 |    44 |       ||   123
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |    23 |       ||    23
 Cast: Flight            |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2
Invok: Temporal Distorti |       |       |     2 |     1 |     1 |       ||     4
       Slouch            |       |       |     1 |     2 |     7 |       ||    10
       Step From Time    |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     4 |     1 |     4 |       ||     9
  Use: Potion            |       |     1 |     9 |       |       |       ||    10
       Scroll            |       |     1 |     5 |     8 |    19 |       ||    33
 Stab: Sleeping          |     6 |    11 |    11 |    38 |    52 |       ||   118
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     4 |     8 |       ||    12
  Eat: Chunk             |       |     6 |     6 |    12 |    22 |       ||    46
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |       |     4 |       ||     4
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     2 ||     3


[tasonir]

Question: Is the triple roll averaging only on players attacking mobs, or both directions? I had assumed it was in both directions, and was less likely to take max damage rolls from monsters, but having re-read your description, it seems like it might be one sided.

[Bloax]

More regen seems fine if you also lower max hp to compensate for the additional hp you will gain over the course of a given encounter.

well would you prefer having 4 maxhp instead of 9 as a spmo to "balance" things out or do you think 1 hp every 10 turns makes a huge difference in encounters at any point past first couple of them (and remember that early deaths are bullshit as fuck)

Question: Is the triple roll averaging only on players attacking mobs, or both directions? I had assumed it was in both directions, and was less likely to take max damage rolls from monsters, but having re-read your description, it seems like it might be one sided.

It's only on the player side because people would bitch horribly about combat being less spiky as fuck on both sides.
The tentacle slaps aren't actually all that strong (although I don't know about how good it is with +slay) because some races are even stronger than that, and at the end of the day - you're still a squishy octopode with no AC in direct melee.
and yes i've died pretty badly due to forgetting that part about my offensive capabilities far outweighing my defensive ones

  Code:

Pre-AC damage is now the average of three 1dX rolls instead of a single 1dX roll. This actually reduces your effective damage by 1-8%, depending on how much-little damage you do.
But if you do a lot of damage then there won't be as many "why won't this bugger DIE" moments.

If you're doing that, why not just divide X by 2 and round up?

since when is (1dX+1dX+1dX)/3 = 1d(ceil(X/2))?

[johlstei]

More regen seems fine if you also lower max hp to compensate for the additional hp you will gain over the course of a given encounter.

well would you prefer having 4 maxhp instead of 9 as a spmo to "balance" things out or do you think 1 hp every 10 turns makes a huge difference in encounters at any point past first couple of them (and remember that early deaths are bullshit as fuck)

The early game is already the most balanced and fun part of the game, the 5 minutes a given character might spend having 9(or 4) hp doesn't really count for much. In late game encounters with more monsters that go on longer, you might well fight for 50-100 turns and regain 25 more hp, I think you should adjust max hp to compensate for that. It's not the 0.1 hp per turn early on, it's the extra hp/600 term that seems like a lot to me.

[Sandman25]

The early game is already the most balanced and fun part of the game, the 5 minutes a given character might spend having 9(or 4) hp doesn't really count for much. In late game encounters with more monsters that go on longer, you might well fight for 50-100 turns and regain 25 more hp, I think you should adjust max hp to compensate for that. It's not the 0.1 hp per turn early on, it's the extra hp/600 term that seems like a lot to me.

Some characters rely on EV instead of AC and thus regeneration does not help them much. Sp is a typical example for that, Fe is already 1-2 shot by most dangerous monsters.

[XuaXua]

More regen seems fine if you also lower max hp to compensate for the additional hp you will gain over the course of a given encounter.

well would you prefer having 4 maxhp instead of 9 as a spmo to "balance" things out or do you think 1 hp every 10 turns makes a huge difference in encounters at any point past first couple of them (and remember that early deaths are bullshit as fuck)

Question: Is the triple roll averaging only on players attacking mobs, or both directions? I had assumed it was in both directions, and was less likely to take max damage rolls from monsters, but having re-read your description, it seems like it might be one sided.

It's only on the player side because people would bitch horribly about combat being less spiky as fuck on both sides.
The tentacle slaps aren't actually all that strong (although I don't know about how good it is with +slay) because some races are even stronger than that, and at the end of the day - you're still a squishy octopode with no AC in direct melee.
and yes i've died pretty badly due to forgetting that part about my offensive capabilities far outweighing my defensive ones

  Code:

Pre-AC damage is now the average of three 1dX rolls instead of a single 1dX roll. This actually reduces your effective damage by 1-8%, depending on how much-little damage you do.
But if you do a lot of damage then there won't be as many "why won't this bugger DIE" moments.

If you're doing that, why not just divide X by 2 and round up?

since when is (1dX+1dX+1dX)/3 = 1d(ceil(X/2))?

(1dX+1dX+1dX)/3 = ceil(X/2) for large values of 3

[Bloax]

(1dX+1dX+1dX)/3 = ceil(X/2) for large values of 3

Well yes, something like (1dX+1dX+1dX..)/100 would indeed result in ceil(X/2) - but I'm not trying to eliminate damage variation, only the extreme spikiness of it.

you might well fight for 50-100 turns and regain 25 more hp

Clearing a deep ziggurat floor takes that long, but it's not like we should care about what goes on down there.
and yeah the part of the game where you can die helplessly (because attacking is your only option) to a kobold that hit you a couple of times with a club while refusing to die is the most balanced one

but then again what the fuck do i know about crawl

[twelwe]

can you program in my dogdedogs idea?

[johlstei]

(1dX+1dX+1dX)/3 = ceil(X/2) for large values of 3

Well yes, something like (1dX+1dX+1dX..)/100 would indeed result in ceil(X/2) - but I'm not trying to eliminate damage variation, only the extreme spikiness of it.

you might well fight for 50-100 turns and regain 25 more hp

Clearing a deep ziggurat floor takes that long, but it's not like we should care about what goes on down there.
and yeah the part of the game where you can die helplessly (because attacking is your only option) to a kobold that hit you a couple of times with a club while refusing to die is the most balanced one

but then again what the fuck do i know about crawl

Yeah its really fun when the enemies are dangerous and make you think about how to deal with them. Attacking isn't your only option, you can also move, throw things, etc. It seems pretty clear to me that the existence of long streaks and high winrates disprove your "helpless" claims. Later in the game, many encounters become easy, and deaths end up happening because you get lazy from dealing with the popcorn. Early on everything could be a threat and the game is appropriately tense and high-energy. A solid escape from a dangerous situation on D:4 feels way more satisfying than tabbing through spider.

[Bloax]

Maybe you find joy in being at the RNG's ultimate mercy, but I (and hence I posted this) don't find the notion of your very first encounter(s) before you find any items being potentially fatal thanks to terrible combat luck.
(And running away can still kill you thanks to energy randomization and the glacial regeneration rate.)

I much prefer D:2 Sigmund escape shenanigans (ever tried to escape Sigmund with only a bat to block his LoF?) which are actually fun unlike the dice of destiny d:1 game.

[johlstei]

I agree D:2 escapes are better than D:1 escapes, but only certain characters are susceptible to the sorts of deaths you are describing on D:1, and they're still pretty rare. I have to assume you are talking about like, jackal pack in the first corridor on a deep elf deaths, there aren't many others where it's actually at the RNG's mercy. (Again, see streaks/high win rates if you doubt this.) It's not like your patch only affects D:1, and it's not like I don't count, say, D:1-D:8 at least when I talk about early game.

Any on-level encounter can always kill you if you roll poorly, it's all about maximizing the probability that you survive in both the short and long term. That is a good thing for sure, combats that aren't "potentially fatal" are boring for the most part.

[Rumbleguts]

I think Op should also get Formicid-style weapon and shields and +1 XP aptitude

[Hirsch I]

I think Op should also get Formicid-style weapon and shields and +1 XP aptitude

and lasers.

[tasonir]

On a more serious note, I've always thought octopodes should have 0 for a hp aptitude, to go with the theme of them being the "zero everything" race and be based solely on the "rings instead of armor" trick. Do this instead of +1 aptitudes!

[Bloax]

Well there's already humans for the 0 everything race, except spellcasting/in-/evocations because something.
There's no +1 everything race though - and octopodes certainly are cool enough to fill that role. (Certainly too cool to be "The 0 Everything Race #2 But Now Without Armor".)

[dck]

literally hitler

[Bloax]

well i do call bad sprites the enemy and i tend to come up with a solution to this problem, so yes - perhaps i am hitler

[Bloax]

Hello and welcome to a new brave new world, where not only hp/mp regeneration exists - but also player accuracy!!
Yes, you can have fun hitting things now. Hooray.

[Sandman25]

Do you mean player never misses now?

[Giant Orange Brainbow Dash]

Octopuses are excellent at escaping from containers by dint of their being very, very squishy and boneless. Why can't your octopodes travel through (under) closed doors without opening them first? This is a serious failing in your otherwise magnificent pode patch.

[Bloax]

fuck

I also forgot to give them beaks.

FUCK

[Berder]

fuck

I also forgot to give them beaks.

FUCK

All octopuses have venomous beaks!

[Sivar]

Bloax, is there a reason you chose not to give AC rolls the same 3dX/3 treatment?

[nearlyseniorcitizen]

I'm not smart enough to really understand all the deep arcane things being spoken of here but I can say Thank You for this and give it my best shot. I'm going to keep watching this- I want to keep up on it

Thanks again

NearlySeniorCitizen
http://www.youtube.com/user/williamroeben

[Bloax]

Bloax, is there a reason you chose not to give AC rolls the same 3dX/3 treatment?

Mostly because I know people really like the spiky combat of crawl for whatever reason, and I don't really mind it as much as I mind these other things.

@bloax: sorry for the derail. I haven't tried your mods, but I know you must have put a lot into them, which gets even more admiration from me.

Well at least I'm getting publicity. :v

And the truly amusing part about this is that my changes aren't all that complicated (well at least compared to whatever the fuck this was) while still quite effective.
Ogres are quite ogrepowered now, you should go try them out!

(i should go remake the octopodes again)

[and into]

Purged of winrate stuff. That discussion can be found here:

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14997

[Sivar]

Bloax, is there a reason you chose not to give AC rolls the same 3dX/3 treatment?

Mostly because I know people really like the spiky combat of crawl for whatever reason, and I don't really mind it as much as I mind these other things.

I see. I asked because the AC roll was always my personal top target for variance reduction, simply because making it less spiky means you also get to get rid of GDR, aka the worst mechanic in the game. I see your perspective though.

[Bloax]

I'll make sure to remember fixing that when I eventually get around to messing around with monster stats, although the latter part is going to be very future-unproof.

[crate]

Do you mean player never misses now?

quoting this because I legitimately have this question
from the OP it sounds like you just gave the player a sizable accuracy buff; is there something compensating for this in the other direction or did you just make it easier?

from looking at the patch it looks like you just increased player accuracy but I don't really code so I'm not sure

[Bloax]

It's a straight-up buff, but the reasoning behind it is that your accuracy barely improves - whether from stats or skill training;
You have a 40% chance of hitting a spriggan (18 EV + Little) at 12 lblades/fighting with a +0 longsword (16 str/12 dex), and 53% at 27 lblades/fighting - which is a tiny increase for the amount of experience spent.
If we increase the stats to (31 str/27 dex) then it becomes 48% at 12 lblades/fighting and 63% at 27 lblades/fighting.

After the buff it becomes 68% at 12 lblades/fighting (16 str/12 dex) and 79% at 27 lblades/fighting.
With the same stat increase (31 str/27 dex) it's 74% (!) at 12 lblades/fighting and 84% at 27 lblades/fighting.

You'll still have trouble hitting the dodgiest fuckers in town (spriggan defenders (70% @ 31 str/27 dex + 27 skills) and the enchantress (52%)),
but the enemies whose job isn't dodging your attacks all day you will enjoy the luxury of not missing much against when your skills/stats are high.

Which makes more sense to me than the status quo, because why the hell should enemies have the exclusive rights to reliably hitting low-EV opponents?

(in case anyone is wondering then i just tested with a HuFi with the stat boost being Chei at 200 piety)

[crate]

I don't have a problem with the scaling changes necessarily but I really don't see why the player deserves the straight-up buff, since in regular crawl you already hit 50% or more of your attacks against most things you fight after like d:3 (early game enemies are dodgy as fuck). It's mostly just blink frogs and spriggans that you miss all the time.

Even at conservative skill/stat values you have >70% chance to hit a yak (not exactly slouches in dodging, compared to most things in crawl) with a +0 great sword (not the most accurate weapon) while wearing plate (hurts your accuracy) in lair in dcss.

I guess I see why you can't hurt base accuracy to compensate for your changes though since then you wreck d:1 because it has the highest concentration of high-EV enemies in all of crawl (and really this is the problem with trying to "fix" accuracy by changing scaling; the problem is that enemies at the very beginning of the game are as dodgy as anything you meet later, so you can't really change anything meaningful unless you fix enemy EV first).

[Bloax]

Well yeah, the real solution is changing enemy stats so that early enemies don't have EV values that are as high as (or higher than most of, as it is at the moment!) the later enemies, while giving the latter higher EV values than they have now.
But that's a big undertaking that actually requires player accuracy to substantially increase as you progress through the game.

tl;dr got another to-do