A few (maybe bad, mostly not new) ideas for the Abyss

[and into]

Well if you want to bring up problems with banishment (this is the wrong forum so I didn't mention any of this earlier) the problem is really twofold:

1) Banishment has absolutely no interaction with positioning other than the fact it requires line-of-fire. This is not the case with any other hex in the game (edit: actually this isnt quite true since I forgot about Tele other and maybe there are some other mr-resistible player-blinking effects); paralysis from a monster at the edge of los is usually not that harmful, but from a monster adjacent to you is often deadly. Because of this it turns out that monsters paralysing you the turn they move into los is actually usually not a problem, whereas this is definitely not the case with banishment.

2) Abyss itself has lots of things that are either problematic or are at least so wildly different from the rest of crawl that it feels like a different game.

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I don't really agree with restricting what actions a monster can do the turn it notices you. I would rather fix the problem by making the actual actions not problematic (from a design sense), instead of artificially fixing it by restricting them.

(Prompted by above post in an advice thread.)

I would like to see some further changes to abyss/banishment. One idea would be to have more rigid/meaningful gradation of difficulty between level 1, level 2, and the rest of the levels; basically, eliminate stuff like liches and tier 1 demons from abyss 1 and probably abyss 2, as there is still plenty of stuff for low level characters to fear without generating spell casters that can go invisible, paralyze you and OHKO level 10 characters with iron shot.

In addition, have banishment/distortion send you to different levels of the abyss, with hard caps based on player's current level. A high level character has a chance to get sent to 3 or 4, a low level character will only be sent to 1. (Probably should be that you can only enter level 5 willingly.) If not already the case, make it so that abyssal rune can *only* generate on level 3 or higher of Abyss. You get a message informing you of this upon entering/being banished to abyss 3 or higher.

I'd also say that banishment of a player via spell or distortion (as opposed to entering willingly) should send you to abyss for a max length of time, scaling up with HD of the monster that banished you. Once that timer is out, the next time you are "pulled into a different region of the abyss" you actually just exit the abyss. Gateways out and gateways deeper still generate, of course.

(Finally, if not already the case, I'd also make it impossible to be "chain banished" in much the same way you can't (I think) be chained paralyzed.)

I feel like these three sets of changes—abyss level more meaningful, high level characters sent deeper upon banishment, max length based on monster HD—would eliminate a lot of the annoyance and unfairness, while keeping the random/dangerous/unsettling character of the abyss.

Posting in CYC because it is a thread about the abyss so I'm not too sanguine about the prospects but figured I'd throw it all out there somewhere on the Tavern. It's about that time of the season, right?

[Jeremiah]

Here are some ideas - some of them may have been suggested before; if so, then I'm suggesting them again…

1. Banishment (spell) is not instantaneous, it takes maybe 3 turns to take effect ("you feel yourself being pulled through a tear in reality.") If you can kill the banisher before it completes, you don't get banished.

2. Distortion weapons don't spawn randomly, they are only given by Lugonu or wielded by certain uniques, flavoured as worshippers of Lugonu. However, some monsters could have the Warp Weapon spell. (Which would at least give you a warning when they cast it.)

3. Players can start worshipping Lugonu anywhere in the Abyss, not just at an altar. This may give them a good chance to save their lives, but at the cost of incurring the wrath of their existing god.

[XuaXua]

1. Banishment (spell) is not instantaneous, it takes maybe 3 turns to take effect ("you feel yourself being pulled through a tear in reality.") If you can kill the banisher before it completes, you don't get banished.

This solves part of the issue from the original advice post this thread was sourced from.

[crate]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11830
relevant
probably there are other topics also but this is the most recent one I remember

[Siegurt]

Acutally if bsnishment was to send you to different levels I would do it based on spell power (I.e. monster difficulty) not player level.

[ontoclasm]

If not already the case, make it so that abyssal rune can *only* generate on level 3 or higher of Abyss.

(Finally, if not already the case, I'd also make it impossible to be "chain banished" in much the same way you can't (I think) be chained paralyzed.)

These are both already the case.

[dpeg]

I have suggested gradual banishment for 0.16 (and will keep doing so). This does not mean it will happen.

Citing myself from 0.16 planning: Banishment — should take severity/power of the banishment source into account: early banishment (distortion weapon on D:4) should send characters to Abyss:1, Elf:3 banishment to Abyss:3. Can either use absdepth of the banishment source, or player XL, or banisher HD, or perhaps another scale. [Rationale: Abyss:1 is an interesting challenge for early game, but falls flat later on; the Abyss levels work well to distinguish between escape and rune hunt; the only missing piece is sending different characters to different levels).

I don't care for the other suggestions in this thread, and I only write this here because it's on topic and seems relevant.

[Hirsch I]

this planning made me so happy for so many reasons. but mostly:

dpeg: A Beogh interface toggle that llows to switch between four modes for orc company: 0 (none), 3, 12, all. Regardless of option, hostile orcs keep converting. (Perhaps 3 should take best fighter, best wizard, best priest.) If an orc dies, implicit call for replacement to keep the number up.

I love you man.

[Sprucery]

Elf:3 banishment to Abyss:3

Good ideas, imo. This would mean though that I'd like to leave one banisher alive on Elf:3 until I go get the Abyssal rune, for convenience. Might be too tedious to accomplish anyway. Or I could wait for a banisher to spawn on a cleared Elf:3, but then plowing through Abyss:1 and 2 might be quicker. I guess there's no problem here.

[and into]

Or willingly entering the abyss via portal immediately drops you at level 3 of the abyss.

Portals to the abyss only appear late game, and I don't think anyone ever enters the abyss via portal for purposes other than getting the abyssal rune or (occasionally) scumming. We don't want to encourage scumming, so why not dump folks off at the spot where it is more dangerous for a late game character, and also where the thing they want to get can actually generate? Then we also don't have to worry about people abusing banishment effects in order to get a shortcut.

[damiac]

I've been suggesting that banishment should send to to different abyss levels based on spellpower for a long time, and it seems like it's been shot down every time. I'm surprised to see it's actually under consideration for 0.16. But I'm very happy to see it!

I sort of like the time limit idea proposed by and_into, but I'd have it just pull you next to a portal, rather than directly out of the abyss. In case, for some reason, you decide you want to stay and get the rune or something.