The Tavern

Is there a definitive resource to sort out the he/she/it parade?

Gods are genderless.

Gods are intentionally unmarked with regards to gender. He, she, and it are all common and accepted terms to refer to any member of the pantheon, and though I haven't seen it, I assume any other pronoun would be as well.

there are no other pronouns unless you count the plural ones

Trog is a tomboy

Lugonu used to be called Lucy. The name was changed to Lugonu deliberately to make it gender-unspecific.

The name Sif is the singular form of the plural Old Norse word sifjar. Sifjar only appears in singular form when referring to the goddess as a proper noun. Sifjar is cognate to the Old English sib (meaning "affinity, connection, by marriage") and in other Germanic languages: Gothic language sibja, Old High German sibba, and German sippe. Sifjar appears not only in ancient poetry and records of law, but also in compounds (byggja sifjar means "to marry")

checkmate, genderwipers

I don't see any reference to Crawl pantheon in that paragraph.

Btw. Muna is 'egg' in Finnish. However, it is also a slang word for penis. And in plural form it is slang for testicles!

so what you're telling me is that sif muna is the goddess of dicks

ok

minmay wrote:i had a dream that i was in a romantic relationship with sif muna and that vehumet was her sister and vehumet had a crush on me but i really hated her and so did sif so we decied to play a prank on vehumet where i pretended to break up with sif and approached vehumet but then i went zin instead and then i switched back to sif (no zin wrath) vehumet was crying at this point and sif and i thought it was hilarious it was a pretty good dream

Bloax wrote:checkmate, genderwipers

You really don't like the idea of gender neutrality or non-specificity, huh?

i just like messing around with people and dislike grammatical errors :^)

Bloax wrote:so what you're telling me is that sif muna is the goddess of dicks

ok

literally could not be any more wrong

What we really need in our language is another pronoun that denotes a genderless sentient being. "It" is insufficient since "it" can apply to anything at all, including a mindless rock.

Maybe we can just make one up for the crawl universe, since it's, you know, a made-up universe. Certainly, the random intermingling of dual gender pronouns in speech leads to some confusion and angst. A defined solution, even if unorthodox, might be a better option.

I'll toss one out there for giggles: zje (pronounced "zsyee"). That's the subject pronoun. The object would be "zjep." The possessive would be "zjes."

Code:: he | she | zje | it him | her | zjep | it his | her(s) | zjes | its

"Sif Muna is popular among players for zjes gift of the channeling ability. Zje also grants amnesia as an ability, making easy to try out different spells as you encounter them. Be careful about abandoning zjep, however, because zjes wrath can be quite dangerous."

Bloax wrote:there are no other pronouns unless you count the plural ones

Wouldn't that be a nicer world to live in?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronouns

not particularly

jejorda2 wrote:
Bloax wrote:there are no other pronouns unless you count the plural ones

Wouldn't that be a nicer world to live in?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronouns

Those work, too. :lol:

jejorda2 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronouns

In my actual game I found an early Okawaru altar and decided to worship em.

E ey eir em, I smell the blood of an Englishperson!

Much like fungi, Crawl deities have multiple mating types beyond just two. Theologists currently believe there are thirteen mating types.

The gods intentionally have no gender mentioned in-game, and any such mention would be considered a bug.

nicolae wrote:Much like fungi, Crawl deities have multiple mating types beyond just two. Theologists currently believe there are thirteen mating types.

I don't know about this.

jejorda2 wrote:
Bloax wrote:there are no other pronouns unless you count the plural ones

Wouldn't that be a nicer world to live in?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronouns

Spivak is just the tip of the iceberg!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neu ... un#Summary

I'm sorry, but gender pronouns make me uncomfortable.

Greyr wrote:I'm sorry, but gender pronouns make me uncomfortable.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm generally in favour of making people uncomfortable. Staying on topic, though, it seems pretty sensible to me that the gods wouldn't have specific genders - they're not actual physical beings, they don't appear to me to have any need for them.
Some of them might be assigned genders by their worshippers, I suppose?

OTOH, if they had genders, they could mate with other creatures and produce offspring, which would be ...demigods!

i'll be waiting for someone to counter that one

everybody knows that demigods are just atheists who achieve their superior mental and physical stats by rejecting the ridiculous and insulting Invisible Sky Person myths

hnnngh, this thread make me suffering

Sar wrote:everybody knows that demigods are just atheists who achieve their superior mental and physical stats by rejecting the ridiculous and insulting Invisible Sky Person myths

If they have superior mental abilities why are they so bad at learning new things?

because they are too busy being enlightened by their own superior intelligence to bother learning

Bloax wrote:i'll be waiting for someone to counter that one

The Manual wrote:Demigods are mortals with some divine or angelic ancestry, however distant; they can be created by a number of processes, including magical experiments and the time-honoured practice of interplanar miscegenation.

Sar's answer is better tho

Demigods can worship TSO:

Checkmate, atheists.

i like this thread

I want that eveningstar so badly.

All of them are goddesses.

what use does a god have for genitals? The title implies that they'll never need a successor.

tasonir wrote:Demigods can worship TSO:

Spoiler: show

Checkmate, atheists.

well technically the atheist becomes so enlightened that he ascends to the status of godhood

becoming that which you hate, how poetic

why do you think gods are such hypocritical beings

they secretly hate themselves for what they have become

Atheists don't hate gods. You can't hate something that doesn't exist.

If an atheist should become a god, they would vanish in a puff of logic.

Sprucery wrote:Atheists don't hate gods. You can't hate something that doesn't exist.

If an atheist should become a god, they would vanish in a puff of logic.

Why? Atheists are those who don't believe, they get the world as is. If I see a god, I will stop being an atheist.

If I would see a god I would have a doctor check my sight ;)

Sprucery wrote:If I would see a god I would have a doctor check my sight

Yes, of course. When an atheist sees a god, his first thought should be "Probably it is hypnosis, I need more atheist people to test it". Though I am not sure I will keep clear mind

literally the worst thread

do atheists upset you dck

why are you so racist?

While we're on topic here: how can we get more girls to play Crawl?

kill all gendered monsters

surely that will help

The roots of this kind of racism, this kind of attitude where somebody really thinks they’re superior to somebody, just because of the color of the other person’s skin? First, what it tells me, you know, my constitutionally-protected opinion about that person, is: they don’t believe in God. Nobody who believes in God can be a racist, in my view, because once you believe God made us, you mean, God made junk? God made somebody lesser just by virtue of the color of their skin? So my starting point is always: All racists must be atheists. They can’t possibly believe in God.

dck wrote:The roots of this kind of racism, this kind of attitude where somebody really thinks they’re superior to somebody, just because of the color of the other person’s skin? First, what it tells me, you know, my constitutionally-protected opinion about that person, is: they don’t believe in God. Nobody who believes in God can be a racist, in my view, because once you believe God made us, you mean, God made junk? God made somebody lesser just by virtue of the color of their skin? So my starting point is always: All racists must be atheists. They can’t possibly believe in God.

This argument is basically "being racist means not believing in god, therefore racists don't believe in god." Your assumption is your conclusion. Here's an argument of similar quality: "I'm always right, so in this case I'm right."

Historically, most racists have claimed to believe in a god, but then again, so have most people in recorded history. At any given time, at any given point in the world that history is recording, it's pretty dangerous not to claim to believe in certain gods, though all people at all times don't believe in most gods. It is however worth noting that many historically-recorded atheists have become atheists in part after observing how little effect apparent piety relates to practiced morality, so if you're going to claim that anyone who behaves badly doesn't believe in your god, there's a reasonable chance your god has no believers at all.

Also, keep in mind that your opinion is constitutionally protected from interference from the government of the United States of America, but not from criticism or suppression by any other entity. Oh, and the government only respects that constitutional right when they feel like it, so good luck.

I also managed to anger some atheists this morning, because I took the position, and I think this is true… that you cannot believe in God and be a racist. Because if you believe in God, then you cannot possibly believe that God made somebody inferior just because of the color of their skin.
No, I never said that all atheists are racists. In fact, I’ve never had that impression whatsoever, that any sort of big number of atheists were racist. My point is the opposite, or a different point, I should say. That I think, probably, all racists are, at the end of the day, atheists.

The Tavern

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