Proposal: Warning confirmation under deadly conditions

[Aule]

Feel free to rip, but I'd like to propose a new feature to help new players that do not have the threat levels of the entire menagerie of monsters completely memorized, as well as to assist those like myself who appear prone to twitchy keyboard handling at times.

It's real simple. If an attack is initiated by the player through a single directional keypress, a "response_threat_check()" is done to determine if the defender's response could be instantly lethal (by comparing player current HP to monster max damage), and if so, then a confirmation is required to continue. This check could also be disabled through an rc option, for those who have memorized a thousand threat levels and are confident of consistently and flawlessly perfect keyboard execution.

It would be similar to the check that prevents tabbing at low HP, and less intrusive than the check that places exclusions.

Fire away.

[Sandman25]

Max damage is not displayed anywhere so I guess your proposal will not be implemented because of design reasons. I would love that option too, it would make fights with Ancient Lich exciting, getting the warning every turn while your HP is 132 would quickly make you realize how lucky you are to survive the fight

[Turukano]

Feel free to rip, but I'd like to propose a new feature to help new players that do not have the threat levels of the entire menagerie of monsters completely memorized, as well as to assist those like myself who appear prone to twitchy keyboard handling at times.

I guess this won't be implemented.

But have a look at my rc-file if you like:

  Code:

hp_warning = 50
force_more_message = HITPOINT


Adjust your hp_warning to whatever HP % warning you want, maybe higher in early game, maybe lower in late game. Every time you get a LOW HITPOINT WARNING you are forced to press -space-. This can be tedious, time-consuming and ... life-saving.

You will know how dangerous an enemy is by

• your personal experience in DCSS
• the monster description

[Tedronai]

Would that really help? If your enemy has ranged attacks and you move away from him (instead of attacking him) you can still be killed regardless of the action you choose to perform.

If you are concerned about getting killed by misclicks, I suggest you add a bit of lua script in your crawlrc that requires you to confirm every single key press with a "yes"-prompt once your HP is below 60% or a similar threshold... Example:

  Code:

You are about to perform the action "l"
Your current HP is XXX. Confirm with "yes" to perform action "l":

This should prevent you from misclicking ever again :)

[crate]

as a bonus the lua script does basically the same thing as the suggested confirmation prompt

[Sandman25]

Well, even if retreating from a monster with ranged attack you still can use a scroll of blinking. Can be useful vs paralyzing monsters if you landed in their LoS after teleport.
Also it's possible to trigger autoexit when you lost too much HP during a single turn, there is quite a difference between getting to 60% HP during 5 turns or instantly.

[LJFCAT]

Feel free to rip, but I'd like to propose a new feature to help new players that do not have the threat levels of the entire menagerie of monsters completely memorized, as well as to assist those like myself who appear prone to twitchy keyboard handling at times.

It's real simple. If an attack is initiated by the player through a single directional keypress, a "response_threat_check()" is done to determine if the defender's response could be instantly lethal (by comparing player current HP to monster max damage), and if so, then a confirmation is required to continue. This check could also be disabled through an rc option, for those who have memorized a thousand threat levels and are confident of consistently and flawlessly perfect keyboard execution.

It would be similar to the check that prevents tabbing at low HP, and less intrusive than the check that places exclusions.

Fire away.

Well, I certainly don't mean to 'fire' at you, and I can relate to doing stupid things before realizing the danger involved, but you learn. The more I play, the quicker I learn - banging your head against the same wall in this game never works, despite it working in most modern games today (bless this game!).

Sometimes I see so many suggestions for auto-this, and screen-prompt that, I become concerned the game is going to start playing itself.

Just play slowly, ask yourself if you are in danger before every battle with a new threat or combination of threats, and if you aren't sure, then treat the answer as yes. An emphatic yes, even!

Hope that didn't come off as too harsh. I wish you the best in your Crawling!

[Hand of Zin]

I would love that option too, it would make fights with Ancient Lich exciting, getting the warning every turn

Pls don't ever implement that

[Turukano]

Sometimes I see so many suggestions for auto-this, and screen-prompt that, I become concerned the game is going to start playing itself.

Bots already exist and won games, look at the topic Bots in 0.14 tournament if you like.

[Patashu]

Mind you qw is really bad at Crawl, I'm still waiting for the bot that can get 10% win rate

[Magipi]

Mind you qw is really bad at Crawl, I'm still waiting for the bot that can get 10% win rate

First let someone develop a bot with 1% win rate, even that is way ahead of qw

[Aule]

I was at full HP when this happened. That's the reason for my suggestion, because this isn't the first time I've have a typo death.

It warns you about stumbling around next to summons while confused. It won't let you tab with low HP. I don't see why this couldn't work. I'll even write the proposed code, if that would help move things along.

This would only apply to directional attacks to adjacent squares, nothing else, and it could be disabled/enabled via rc. Even better, make it disabled by default, and let the rc option enable it. Call it diaper_mode, if that makes you feel better. Or training_wheels. I don't care. It's a really stupid way to die, especially when there exists that thing we call lag to make matters even more dicey.

[Patashu]

Have you tried HilariousDeathArtist 's .rc? It force-save-and-exits the game when you get hit very hard, so you don't fumble your next move.

[Aule]

I didn't have a next move. I fumble-fingered, and was made into a puddle instantaneously. I never would have stood knowingly next to a giant at that level and HP precisely because they can do that, which I already learned the hard way. Opening door resulted in two keystrokes because of a twitch. Twitch made puddle. So sad.

[Patashu]

force_more_message any time anything comes into view, then?
I used to have this in my rc.

[Turukano]

I didn't have a next move. I fumble-fingered, and was made into a puddle instantaneously. [...] Opening door resulted in two keystrokes because of a twitch.

One idea is to just use autoexplore, your char will stop every time a monster comes into view. As I don't like autoexplore I had the same problem as you. I deal with it in the following way:

• I don't play when there's lag
• I have a force_more_message in my rc with every monster which is relative dangerous imo. In early dungeon e.g. ogres (hit hard), orc priests (smite hard), centaurs (shoot hard) etc.
  
  

    Code:

  force_more_message += ogre .* into view
force_more_message += orc priest .* into view
force_more_message += centaur .* into view


[crate]

Using shift-dir to move around will prevent accidental moves with monsters in los.

You can also use x (or X, I suppose, though I find that more awkward for short distances) if your desired destination is not easily reachable with shift-dir.

[Aule]

Guys, I use autoexplore and shift-dir religiously. My left pinky finger slipped off the shift key with the twitch. That's what added to the aggravation of the thing.

force_more_message += ogre .* into view
force_more_message += orc priest .* into view
force_more_message += centaur .* into view

I do like the looks of this, though it would seem to be cumbersome to save/change/restart several times throughout his career. Something like this is what got me thinking about the proposed mechanism. But I don't care if I see them. I can deal with seeing them. I just don't want to accidentally plow into one again.

I really don't see what's wrong with the idea, especially if it's optional. It's a simple failsafe, and the game is rife with such adaptations that are not optional.

[duvessa]

As crate said, your proposed prompt would trigger after almost every action, because it is possible to die immediately after almost every action.

[tompliss]

Rupert comes into view. Quit ? (y/y)

[Sprucery]

Maybe it would suffice if the warning triggered only if you're going to take a step next to a monster that could potentially kill you before you can react?

[tompliss]

Then it would mean a "caster" attacking in melee a monster would not get the warning and die because he double-tapped the monster's direction.

[Aule]

As crate said, your proposed prompt would trigger after almost every action, because it is possible to die immediately after almost every action.

No, it would only trigger after a directional attack upon something that could splat you with one hit. In addition, once engaged, the choice could be remembered so that further confirmation is unnecessary. In reality it would be a rare prompt.

[Aule]

Rupert comes into view. Quit ? (y/y)

Cute, but this has nothing to do with my proposal. I said nothing about anything coming into view.

[Aule]

Maybe it would suffice if the warning triggered only if you're going to take a step next to a monster that could potentially kill you before you can react?

That's at least closer to what I actually proposed.

If an attack is initiated by the player through a single directional keypress...

[Aule]

Then it would mean a "caster" attacking in melee a monster would not get the warning and die because he double-tapped the monster's direction.

Huh?

[Sandman25]

Caster can use !a inscription for melee weapons.

[Aule]

Which would be useless because it would prompt for everything, including rats and bats, which is ridiculous.

[duvessa]

Which would be useless because it would prompt for everything, including rats and bats, which is ridiculous.

As you have been told twice now, so would your suggestion, because you can die immediately after almost every attack!

[Aule]

Sorry, but it would not, if you'd actually read and understand what I have proposed, which you don't seem inclined to do.

The only real difficulty I can see is coding the check for the potential max damage of the enemy. There are checks against threat levels based upon HP and the like, but in the case of multiple possible response attacks, it could get complicated.

This proposal fits very well with the game and its various deliberate attempts to prevent accidental instadeath, which this problem exemplifies. Letting a character with 30 HP blindly attack a giant is functionally equivalent to letting said player walk right into lava or deep water.

Edit: and for anyone who doesn't wish to read anything above, the proposal is for an optional check to be made only once upon a player's initiation of a directional attack against an enemy that can deliver a single fatal blow. The check is not made against current HP, is not made for ranged attacks, doesn't care about anything else in LOS, or any other red herring detraction, and would be invisible to those who do not wish to use it. Really.

[tompliss]

Except if there is any stunner (that's why I wrote about Rupert up here) or confuser, or sleeper, you can get killed in a single unlucky streak.

[nilsbloodaxe]

Have you tried HilariousDeathArtist 's .rc? It force-save-and-exits the game when you get hit very hard, so you don't fumble your next move.

Sorry to derail, but I use HDA's rc file (with a couple modifications), and I have never had this happen. Where does it do this?

[Sprucery]

Except if there is any stunner (that's why I wrote about Rupert up here) or confuser, or sleeper, you can get killed in a single unlucky streak.

Yes but Aule is not trying to cover all possible ways to die here. It's not supposed to be a fool-proof preventer of death, but a possibly helpful tool for anyone who would wish to use it. Or so I gathered.

[Sprucery]

Edit: and for anyone who doesn't wish to read anything above, the proposal is for an optional check to be made only once upon a player's initiation of a directional attack against an enemy that can deliver a single fatal blow. The check is not made against current HP, is not made for ranged attacks, doesn't care about anything else in LOS, or any other red herring detraction, and would be invisible to those who do not wish to use it. Really.

It would also have to take into account the PC's attack speed. The death that started all this was caused by a hill giant getting two hits in due to PC swinging a halberd with 0 skill.

[Leafsnail]

I'd probably have a go with this if someone coded it in lua, it'd be sortof interesting to see how often you could have died after an action, even if it's so often that you wouldn't want to play with it on normally. Let's assume it's limited to onscreen monsters so it doesn't have to take into account the possibility of three centaurs entering LoS and firing on you at the same time on D:1

[Lasty]

If this is lua-able without hard-coding the max damage of every monster into your lua script, then lua has a severe information leak.

[Leafsnail]

That seems like the only way yes.