CIP: More slaying?

Wednesday, 24th September 2014, 21:56 by Greyr

I got a nice run going here, and whats even nicer is I just found a +5 slaying ring... But I don't know if it's worth the slot. What do you guys think?

My head says 'no' but my gut says 'yes'.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 (tiles) character file. Greyr the Spry (High Elf Wizard) Turns: 80328, Time: 03:16:24 HP 134/134 (137) AC 16 Str 4 XL: 21 Next: 79% MP 42/42 EV 37 Int 40 God: Vehumet [******] Gold 796 SH 12 Dex 28 Spells: 8 memorised, 8 levels left rFire + + + SeeInvis + b - staff of conjuration rCold + + . Clarity . n - +2 robe {rC+ rF+} rNeg . . . rCorr . v - +0 shield rPois . rRot . U - +2 hat rElec + Spirit . x - +2 cloak {MR+} SustAb + Warding . f - +2 pair of fencer's gloves {EV+3 Dex+6 Slay+2} rMut + Stasis . i - +2 pair of boots Gourm . F - amulet "Uroprox" {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} MR ++++. N - ring of the Tuna {Str+3 Int+3 SInv} m - cursed ring "Bluc" {SustAb rElec rF++ Curse} @: repel missiles, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, extraordinarily stealthy A: cold resistance 1, magic resistance 1 a: Renounce Religion }: 1/15 runes: serpentine You are on level 5 of the Shoals. You worship Vehumet. Vehumet is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 42 of its levels. You have also visited: Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano. You have collected 4415 gold pieces. You have spent 2982 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +8 demon blade of freezing C - a +1 dagger of stabbing Missiles A - 3 throwing nets (quivered) Armour f - the +2 pair of fencer's gloves (worn) {EV+3 Dex+6 Slay+2} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Vaults) It affects your evasion (+3). It affects your dexterity (+6). It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2). i - a +2 pair of boots (worn) n - a +2 robe of resistance (worn) v - a +0 shield (worn) x - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn) U - a +2 hat (worn) Magical devices t - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1} G - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1} Comestibles c - 9 fruits s - 3 meat rations Q - 15 royal jellies S - 4 beef jerkies W - 3 bread rations Scrolls j - a scroll of vulnerability k - a scroll of silence l - 3 scrolls of teleportation o - 11 scrolls of remove curse q - 9 scrolls of identify w - a scroll of fear D - 3 scrolls of fog J - 3 scrolls of blinking M - a scroll of magic mapping P - a scroll of summoning T - 4 scrolls of recharging Y - 2 scrolls of amnesia Jewellery e - an uncursed ring of teleport control m - the cursed ring "Bluc" (left hand) {SustAb rElec rF++ Curse} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) [ring of sustain abilities] It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity. It greatly protects you from fire. It insulates you from electricity. It may recurse itself when equipped. It has a curse placed upon it. r - a +5 ring of slaying y - an uncursed ring of fire z - an uncursed amulet of warding F - the amulet "Uroprox" (around neck) {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 12 of the Dungeon) [amulet of resist mutation] It protects you from mutation. It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+3). N - the ring of the Tuna (right hand) {Str+3 Int+3 SInv} (You bought it in a shop on level 11 of the Dungeon) [ring of see invisible] It affects your strength (+3). It affects your intelligence (+3). It enhances your eyesight. R - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand Z - an uncursed ring of protection from cold Potions d - 3 potions of invisibility h - 4 potions of flight u - 11 potions of curing H - a potion of haste I - 5 potions of cancellation K - 7 potions of restore abilities L - 4 potions of brilliance O - 2 potions of cure mutation V - 4 potions of heal wounds X - 3 potions of resistance Books p - a book of Wizardry Spells Type Level Agony Necromancy 5 Force Lance Conjuration 5 Dispersal Translocation 6 Haste Charms 6 Invisibility Hexes 6 Spellforged Servitor Conjuration/Summoning 7 E - a book of the Warp Spells Type Level *Control Teleport Charms/Translocation 4 Phase Shift Translocation 5 Warp Weapon Charms/Translocation 5 Dispersal Translocation 6 Controlled Blink Translocation 7 Disjunction Translocation 8 Magical staves b - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon) g - an uncursed staff of air Miscellaneous B - a lamp of fire Skills: - Level 10.0 Fighting - Level 4.0(7.5) Short Blades - Level 10.0(10.3) Long Blades - Level 6.1 Armour + Level 19.2 Dodging - Level 17.3 Stealth - Level 11.7 Shields + Level 15.4 Spellcasting - Level 16.0 Conjurations Level 0.8 Summonings - Level 1.1 Translocations - Level 5.0 Ice Magic + Level 17.4 Air Magic You have 8 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######## 0% 4 None b - Blink Tloc N/A 1% 2 None c - Freezing Cloud Conj/Ice/Air ########.. 1% 6 None d - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air ###### 1% 2 None e - Tornado Air ########.. 24% 9 ######. f - Orb of Destruction Conj ########.. 1% 7 ###.... g - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc #####..... 12% 4 None h - Chain Lightning Conj/Air ########.. 2% 8 #####.. Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (15/15) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (4/4) D:9 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:11 Shoals (5/5) Lair:3 Snake (5/5) Lair:4 Slime (0/6) Lair:7 Vaults (4/5) D:13 Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2 Depths (0/5) D:15 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Gozag Kikubaaqudgha Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Qazlal Ru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Shops: D:11 = D:12 =[(:= D:14 * Orc:4 ((=: Vaults:1 * Vaults:2 : Vaults:3 * Annotations: D:7 exclusion: downstairs D:10 Fannar Vaults:4 exclusion: door, Aizul Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations Your flesh is cold resistant. You are resistant to hostile enchantments. Message History HP restored. You start resting. Magic restored. You start waiting. Your pack is full. You see here a thick hardcover book. Zapping: G - a glowing fluorescent wand Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line Nothing appears to happen. G - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1} Identify which item? (\ to view known items) (? for menu, Esc to quit) As you read the scroll of identify, it crumbles to dust. r - a +5 ring of slaying Saving game... please wait. Welcome back, Greyr the High Elf Wizard. Vehumet says: Let it end in hellfire! Press ? for a list of commands and other information. Unknown command. key_to_command(): command 'CMD_NO_CMD' (950:129) wrong for desired context Unknown command. .## ##.....òòòòòòòòòòò .# #....òòòòòòòòòòòò .# #....òòòòòòòòòòòò .# #<..òòòòòòòòòòòò .## ##..#####òòòòòòò ..##'##..##...##òòòòò .....).%.#)....#òòòò ...ò..%.[(%(:..#ò ..òò...òò#.....# òòòòòòòòò##.@=## òòòòòòòòòò##### òòòòòòòòòòòò òòòòòòòòòòòò òòòòòòòòòòò òòòòòòòòòòòò òòòòòòòòòò òòòò There are no monsters in sight! ßNotes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Greyr, the High Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 5/5 473 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting 473 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 17/17 MP: 2/8 566 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 569 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp 572 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles 1332 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 17/21 MP: 2/11 2023 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud 2177 | D:2 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 2189 | D:2 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 2189 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 27/27 MP: 7/14 3057 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 3130 | D:3 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 3159 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 29/31 MP: 5/18 3486 | D:3 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 3630 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 3630 | D:3 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 3941 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic 4211 | D:4 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos. 4504 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 13/36 MP: 10/20 5033 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 5932 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth 5932 | D:6 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 41/41 MP: 6/21 6030 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 6039 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 6131 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 6383 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic 6524 | D:6 | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth 6604 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 7161 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 17/46 MP: 2/22 7477 | D:6 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 7503 | D:6 | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth 7955 | D:7 | Found a sand-covered staircase. 7964 | Ossuary | Entered an ossuary 8221 | Ossuary | Acquired Vehumet's first power 8221 | Ossuary | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet. 8293 | Ossuary | Learned a level 1 spell: Sting 8442 | Ossuary | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades 9009 | D:7 | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth 9384 | D:7 | Offered knowledge of Searing Ray by Vehumet. 9395 | D:7 | Learned a level 2 spell: Searing Ray 9395 | D:7 | Identified a scroll of acquirement 9486 | D:8 | Noticed a boulder beetle 9529 | D:8 | Killed a boulder beetle 9536 | D:8 | Noticed a yaktaur captain 9863 | D:8 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/51 MP: 10/24 9970 | D:8 | Noticed a red ugly thing 10028 | D:8 | Killed a brown ugly thing 10028 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth 10592 | D:9 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 10630 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 11171 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 11171 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth 11448 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 11448 | D:9 | Noticed a fire drake 11456 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 56/56 MP: 15/25 11463 | D:9 | Killed a fire drake 11608 | D:9 | Got a crude ring mail 11609 | D:9 | Identified the +3 ring mail "Ophyf" {rF+ Dex+4} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) 11701 | D:9 | Offered knowledge of Inner Flame by Vehumet. 11752 | D:9 | Noticed Edmund 11872 | D:9 | Killed Edmund 12102 | D:9 | the staircase to the Lair was a mimic. 12279 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 12539 | D:10 | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth 12715 | D:10 | Noticed Fannar 12906 | D:10 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 13297 | D:10 | HP: 2/58 [Fannar/Ozocubu's Refrigeration (14)] 13663 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 13856 | D:10 | Acquired Vehumet's second power 14242 | D:11 | Noticed an unseen horror 14269 | D:10 | Killed an unseen horror 14311 | D:10 | Offered knowledge of Olgreb's Toxic Radiance by Vehumet. 14494 | D:11 | Noticed an elephant 14583 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 15343 | D:11 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 69/69 MP: 19/26 15705 | D:11 | Found Ypnam's Jewellery Emporium. 15728 | D:11 | Bought the ring of the Tuna {Str+3 Int+3 SInv} for 415 gold pieces 16298 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 16996 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of beneficial mutation] 17223 | Lair:1 | Acquired Vehumet's third power 17544 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 18014 | Lair:1 | Offered knowledge of Iskenderun's Mystic Blast by Vehumet. 18074 | Lair:1 | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast 19598 | Lair:2 | Offered knowledge of Poisonous Cloud by Vehumet. 20209 | Lair:2 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 20223 | Lair:2 | Killed a four-headed hydra 20223 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 20223 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 12 in Conjurations 20641 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 20641 | Lair:3 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 20645 | Lair:3 | Killed a five-headed hydra 20645 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 20690 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 77/77 MP: 5/29 21520 | Lair:3 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 21524 | Lair:3 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 22232 | Lair:4 | Found a dark tunnel. 22240 | Volcano | Entered a volcano 22418 | Volcano | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 22785 | Volcano | Reached skill level 13 in Conjurations 23029 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades 23226 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 23355 | Lair:4 | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction 23444 | Lair:4 | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation] 23978 | Lair:4 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 24099 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 25817 | Lair:6 | Noticed a six-headed hydra 25826 | Lair:6 | Killed a six-headed hydra 25826 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 64/81 MP: 13/32 26178 | Lair:5 | Lost strength. 26299 | Lair:5 | Lost mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [helix card] 26299 | Lair:5 | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [helix card] 26429 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades 26722 | Lair:6 | Your ally Weines died 27258 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 14 in Conjurations 27263 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 28918 | Lair:7 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 29256 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 29620 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 30063 | Lair:8 | Got an encrusted battleaxe 30496 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 39/88 MP: 32/32 30957 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations 31498 | Lair:8 | Offered knowledge of Conjure Ball Lightning by Vehumet. 32005 | Lair:8 | Identified Emanoaj's Incunabulum of Gliding Execration 32185 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades 32700 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 32721 | Orc:1 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 33318 | Orc:2 | Noticed Josephine 33609 | Orc:2 | Noticed Psyche 33631 | Orc:2 | Killed Psyche 33811 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 34059 | Orc:2 | Killed Josephine 34329 | Orc:2 | Noticed Nergalle 34571 | Orc:2 | Killed Nergalle 34740 | Orc:3 | Found a frozen archway. 34846 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 35057 | IceCv | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet. 35900 | IceCv | Noticed a frost giant 35956 | IceCv | Killed a frost giant 36322 | IceCv | Identified Jiro's Grimoire of the Frostbite 36442 | IceCv | Lost mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [helix card] 36447 | IceCv | Gained mutation: You are resistant to hostile enchantments. [helix card] 37302 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 37302 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 37302 | Orc:4 | Found Ugesch's Jewellery Shoppe. 37981 | Orc:3 | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet. 38223 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 16 in Conjurations 38330 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields 38649 | Orc:4 | Found Grim's Antique Weapon Emporium. 38706 | Orc:4 | Found Fuenlor's Book Shop. 38709 | Orc:4 | Bought the ring "Bluc" {SustAb rElec rF++ Curse} for 637 gold pieces 38719 | Orc:4 | Found Psoop's Weapon Shoppe. 39116 | Orc:4 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 97/99 MP: 25/34 39935 | Snake:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit 40091 | Snake:1 | Noticed Roxanne 40206 | Snake:1 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 41242 | Snake:1 | Killed Roxanne 41249 | Snake:1 | Identified Roxanne's Handbook of Transmutation (You took it off Roxanne on level 1 of the Snake Pit) 41352 | Snake:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting 41537 | Snake:1 | Noticed Nikola 41636 | Snake:1 | Killed Nikola 42273 | Snake:2 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 45263 | Snake:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 45427 | Snake:3 | Offered knowledge of Freezing Cloud by Vehumet. 45453 | Snake:3 | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud 45903 | Snake:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 46425 | Snake:3 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 104/109 MP: 16/36 46914 | Snake:4 | Noticed Saint Roka 47908 | Snake:4 | Noticed Jorgrun 48533 | Snake:3 | Killed Jorgrun 48726 | Snake:4 | Killed Saint Roka 49549 | Snake:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit 49983 | Snake:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Glaciate by Vehumet. 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Chain Lightning by Vehumet. 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Tornado by Vehumet. 50742 | Snake:5 | Got a polished leather armour 50841 | Snake:5 | Identified the +0 leather armour "Ataotwao" {Slay+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Snake Pit) 52950 | Snake:5 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 100/115 MP: 0/37 53378 | Snake:4 | Learned a level 8 spell: Chain Lightning 55839 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic 56303 | Snake:5 | Got a serpentine rune of Zot 56328 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth 58434 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals 59185 | D:12 | Found Ghiurivviti's Jewellery Emporium. 59206 | D:12 | Found Golafus' Antique Armour Boutique. 59349 | D:12 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 59365 | D:12 | Found Epledir's Antique Weapon Shop. 59416 | D:12 | Found Klidaj's Jewellery Shop. 59428 | D:12 | Bought the amulet "Uroprox" {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} for 894 gold pieces 59630 | D:12 | Found Schuoro's Book Shoppe. 59703 | D:13 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging 60078 | D:13 | Found a gate to the Vaults. 60145 | D:13 | Got a faintly glowing cutlass 60147 | D:13 | Identified the +8 cutlass of Shriteipp {pain, rF++ Int+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 60155 | D:13 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 120/120 MP: 30/38 61048 | D:14 | Found Plog's Assorted Antiques. 61253 | D:14 | Noticed Kirke 61268 | D:14 | Killed Kirke 61351 | D:14 | Noticed Maud 61363 | D:14 | Killed Maud 61696 | D:14 | Noticed Urug 61708 | D:14 | Killed Urug 61883 | D:14 | Noticed Erica 61892 | D:14 | Killed Erica 62063 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 62425 | D:15 | Found a staircase to the Depths. 63058 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults 63844 | Vaults:1 | Found Joisocviyth's General Store. 63851 | Vaults:1 | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 676 gold pieces 64973 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 17 in Stealth 66112 | Vaults:1 | Learned a level 9 spell: Tornado 66754 | Vaults:2 | Found Irrusuda's Book Boutique. 66760 | Vaults:2 | Bought a book of Wizardry for 360 gold pieces 67080 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 126/126 MP: 38/38 68127 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt. 68144 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Sojobo 69184 | Vaults:2 | Killed Sojobo 69501 | Vaults:3 | Found Zuiraq's General Store. 70612 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Air Magic 72192 | Vaults:4 | Learned a level 4 spell: Control Teleport 72293 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Donald 72302 | Vaults:4 | Killed Donald 72653 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Aizul 72759 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 129/129 MP: 40/40 72951 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 18 in Dodging 73266 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 116/134 MP: 11/41 76251 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Frances 76257 | Shoals:2 | Killed Frances 76419 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Polyphemus 76564 | Shoals:3 | Killed Polyphemus 77483 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting 78042 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 19 in Dodging 78833 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Wiglaf 78841 | Shoals:4 | Killed Wiglaf 79868 | Shoals:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Shoals Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Dagger | 9 | 32 | 114 | 285 | | | || 440 Unarmed | | 2 | | | | | || 2 Staff | | | 1 | 5 | 22 | 11 | 1 || 40 Demon blade | | | | 47 | 990 | 733 | 653 || 2423 Throw: Throwing net | | | | | 1 | 2 | || 3 Cast: Magic Dart | 79 | 187 | 280 | 332 | 213 | 15 | || 1106 Call Imp | 4 | 17 | 32 | 25 | 1 | | || 79 Mephitic Cloud | 1 | 8 | 48 | 54 | 38 | | || 149 Blink | | 3 | 16 | 24 | 26 | 30 | 2 || 101 Repel Missiles | | 1 | | 1 | 1 | 4 | 2 || 9 Conjure Flame | | | 10 | 15 | | | || 25 Sting | | | 16 | 86 | 3 | 4 | || 109 Searing Ray | | | 8 | 42 | 2 | | || 52 Iskenderun's Myst | | | | 187 | 444 | 344 | 374 || 1349 Orb of Destructio | | | | | 50 | 39 | 20 || 109 Freezing Cloud | | | | | 5 | 168 | 60 || 233 Chain Lightning | | | | | | 1 | 17 || 18 Control Teleport | | | | | | | 4 || 4 Evoke: Wand | | 5 | 5 | 1 | 10 | 2 | 1 || 24 Deck | | 7 | | | 25 | | || 32 Use: Scroll | | | 20 | 24 | 17 | 21 | 14 || 96 Potion | | | 2 | 2 | 17 | 14 | 5 || 40 Stab: Paralysed | | 1 | | | | | || 1 Confused | | 1 | 6 | 25 | 34 | | || 66 Distracted | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 || 12 Sleeping | | | | 3 | 4 | 28 | 6 || 41 Eat: Chunk | 3 | 2 | 4 | 9 | 28 | 48 | 40 || 134 Meat ration | | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 || 14 Bread ration | | | | 6 | 8 | 5 | || 19 Royal jelly | | | | 1 | 1 | 4 | || 6 Pizza | | | | | | 9 | || 9 Beef jerky | | | | | | 8 | || 8 Fruit | | | | | | 16 | || 16

Edit: I suppose I posted in the wrong place. Sue me.

Wednesday, 24th September 2014, 23:28 by tedric

Usually I'd say the answer is always MOAR SLAYNG, but apparently without that ring of Tuna you'd only have 1 Str? I assume you're under some kind of effect but I'm not seeing it. Anyway, if you have a modicum of natural Str I'd wear slaying and only swap in Tuna when you need SInv.

Wednesday, 24th September 2014, 23:42 by duvessa

HEWz starts with 6 str. Did you draw 5 focus cards or something?

Wednesday, 24th September 2014, 23:56 by some12fat2move

You have 11 RC, so wear Tuna and slaying, and swap to Bluc when needed.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 00:14 by Greyr

After a couple of zig levels I found a happy alternative ring.

Yeah, I fucks with focus cards m8

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0 (tiles) character file. 1833067 Greyr the Intangible (level 27, 177/201 HPs) Began as a High Elf Wizard on Sept 24, 2014. Was the Champion of Vehumet. Escaped with the Orb ... and 4 runes! The game lasted 04:59:51 (118738 turns). Greyr the Intangible (High Elf Wizard) Turns: 118738, Time: 04:59:51 HP 177/201 AC 22 Str 3 XL: 27 MP 38/47 EV 44 Int 42 God: Vehumet [******] Gold 5226 SH 15 Dex 32 Spells: 13 memorised, 1 level left rFire + + . SeeInvis + a - +9 demon blade (freeze) rCold + . . Clarity . n - +2 robe {rC+ rF+} rNeg . . . rCorr . v - +2 shield rPois + rRot . r - +2 hat {Int+3} rElec . Spirit . x - +2 cloak {MR+} SustAb . Warding . f - +2 pair of fencer's gloves {EV+3 Dex+6 Slay+2} rMut + Stasis . t - +2 pair of boots Gourm . F - amulet "Uroprox" {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} MR +++.. k - ring of Ibemyamo {Str+2 Dex+2 Slay+6} e - ring "Peush" {+Blink rF+ AC+6 SInv} @: very slightly contaminated, hasted, very quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy A: poison resistance a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink 0: Orb of Zot }: 4/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver You escaped. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was exalted by your worship. You were very hungry. You visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and saw 63 of its levels. You visited 1 Ziggurat, and saw 9 of its levels. You also visited: Ossuary, Ice Cave and Volcano. You collected 8845 gold pieces. You spent 2982 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons a - a +9 demon blade of freezing (weapon) Missiles A - 3 throwing nets (quivered) Armour f - the +2 pair of fencer's gloves (worn) {EV+3 Dex+6 Slay+2} (You acquired it on level 1 of the Vaults) It affects your evasion (+3). It affects your dexterity (+6). It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2). n - a +2 robe of resistance (worn) r - a +2 hat of intelligence (worn) t - a +2 pair of boots (worn) v - a +2 shield (worn) x - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn) Magical devices G - a wand of invisibility (3) Comestibles i - a slice of pizza Q - 17 royal jellies S - 8 beef jerkies Scrolls j - 4 scrolls of vulnerability l - 10 scrolls of teleportation o - 17 scrolls of remove curse q - 10 scrolls of identify y - a scroll of silence C - 4 scrolls of fear D - 11 scrolls of fog H - 2 scrolls of brand weapon J - 4 scrolls of blinking M - 5 scrolls of magic mapping R - 3 scrolls of enchant weapon T - 9 scrolls of recharging U - 4 scrolls of summoning V - a scroll of enchant armour Y - 6 scrolls of amnesia Jewellery e - the ring "Peush" (left hand) {+Blink rF+ AC+6 SInv} (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 5 of the Vaults) [ring of protection] It affects your AC (+6). It protects you from fire. It enhances your eyesight. It lets you blink. k - the ring of Ibemyamo (right hand) {Str+2 Dex+2 Slay+6} (You found it on level 7 of a ziggurat) [ring of slaying] It affects your strength (+2). It affects your dexterity (+2). It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+6). m - the cursed ring "Bluc" {SustAb rElec rF++ Curse} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines) [ring of sustain abilities] It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity. It greatly protects you from fire. It insulates you from electricity. It may recurse itself when equipped. It has a curse placed upon it. z - a cursed amulet of warding F - the amulet "Uroprox" (around neck) {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 12 of the Dungeon) [amulet of resist mutation] It protects you from mutation. It affects your intelligence (+3). It affects your dexterity (+3). Z - a cursed ring of protection from cold Potions d - 6 potions of invisibility h - 2 potions of heal wounds p - 5 potions of might u - 11 potions of curing I - 5 potions of cancellation K - 10 potions of restore abilities L - 5 potions of brilliance N - a potion of berserk rage O - 3 potions of cure mutation X - 4 potions of resistance Books c - a book of Beasts Spells Type Level Summon Butterflies Summoning 1 Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3 Summon Ice Beast Ice/Summoning 4 Summon Mana Viper Hexes/Summoning 5 Monstrous Menagerie Summoning 6 Summon Hydra Summoning 7 Magical staves b - an uncursed staff of air g - an uncursed staff of conjuration P - an uncursed staff of energy Miscellaneous B - a lamp of fire Skills: + Level 20.2 Fighting Level 4.0(7.5) Short Blades - Level 10.0(10.3) Long Blades - Level 6.1 Armour O Level 27 Dodging + Level 24.5 Stealth + Level 13.0 Shields - Level 19.3 Spellcasting - Level 16.0 Conjurations - Level 8.9 Charms Level 0.8 Summonings - Level 12.7 Translocations Level 5.0 Ice Magic - Level 18.9 Air Magic You had one spell level left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######## 0% 4 None b - Blink Tloc N/A 0% 2 None c - Flight Chrm/Air ########.. 0% 3 None d - Repel Missiles Chrm/Air ###### 0% 2 None e - Tornado Air ########.. 5% 9 ####... f - Orb of Destruction Conj ########.. 1% 7 None g - Control Teleport Chrm/Tloc #######... 1% 4 None h - Chain Lightning Conj/Air ########.. 1% 8 ##..... i - Haste Chrm #######. 2% 6 None j - Phase Shift Tloc #######... 1% 5 None k - Controlled Blink Tloc N/A 2% 7 None l - Airstrike Air ########.. 0% 4 None m - Shroud of Golubria Chrm/Tloc #######... 0% 2 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (15/15) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (4/4) D:9 Elf (0/3) Orc:4 Lair (8/8) D:11 Shoals (5/5) Lair:3 Snake (5/5) Lair:4 Slime (6/6) Lair:7 Vaults (5/5) D:13 Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2 Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3 Depths (5/5) D:15 Hell (1/1) Dis (0/7) Hell Geh (0/7) Hell Tar (0/7) Hell Zot (5/5) Depths:5 Coc: Hell:1 Altars: Ashenzari Dithmenos Elyvilon Fedhas Gozag Kikubaaqudgha Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Qazlal Ru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin The Shining One Beogh Jiyva Shops: D:11 = D:12 =[(:= D:14 * Orc:4 ((=: Vaults:1 * Vaults:2 : Vaults:3 * Depths:1 ! Portals: Abyss: Depths:4 Depths:5 Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3 Annotations: D:7 exclusion: downstairs D:10 Fannar Vaults:4 exclusion: door, Aizul Vaults:5 Mara Depths:2 exclusion: orange crystal statue Hell exclusion: 2 ice statues Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations Your system is resistant to poisons. Message History Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Aiming: Haste Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - you You miscast Haste. Multicoloured lights dance before your eyes! The hellwing gestures at you. You resist with almost no effort. The hellwing gestures at you. You resist with almost no effort. Casting: Haste Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Aiming: Haste Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - you You feel yourself speed up. The smoke demon gestures at you. Something smites you! The smoke demon gestures at you. Something smites you! There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here. You have escaped! ##.#........#........### #......#...#...#.....## #...#...#..#..#...#..## ##....#..#..#..#..#..... .......#..#.#.#..#.....# ##..#...#.#.#.#.#...#..# ##...##..#.#.#.#..##...# ##.....##.#...#.##.....# ##.......#.....#.l4....# ##.######...@...######.# ##.......#.....#X4..3... ##.....##.#...#.##...... ##...##..#.#.#.#..##...# .#..#...#.#.#.#.#..5#..# .......#..#.#.#..#.....# .#....#..#..#..#..#..... ###..#...#..#..#...#...# # #.....#...#...#......# You could see an Orb Guardian, 2 hellwings, a smoke demon, a white imp and a giant newt. Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Greyr, the High Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 5/5 473 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting 473 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 17/17 MP: 2/8 566 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 569 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp 572 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles 1332 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 17/21 MP: 2/11 2023 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud 2177 | D:2 | Noticed Crazy Yiuf 2189 | D:2 | Killed Crazy Yiuf 2189 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 27/27 MP: 7/14 3057 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 3130 | D:3 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 3159 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 29/31 MP: 5/18 3486 | D:3 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 3630 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 3630 | D:3 | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon. 3941 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic 4211 | D:4 | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos. 4504 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 13/36 MP: 10/20 5033 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 5932 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth 5932 | D:6 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 41/41 MP: 6/21 6030 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 6039 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 6131 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 6383 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Air Magic 6524 | D:6 | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth 6604 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 7161 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 17/46 MP: 2/22 7477 | D:6 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 7503 | D:6 | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth 7955 | D:7 | Found a sand-covered staircase. 7964 | Ossuary | Entered an ossuary 8221 | Ossuary | Acquired Vehumet's first power 8221 | Ossuary | Offered knowledge of Sting by Vehumet. 8293 | Ossuary | Learned a level 1 spell: Sting 8442 | Ossuary | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades 9009 | D:7 | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth 9384 | D:7 | Offered knowledge of Searing Ray by Vehumet. 9395 | D:7 | Learned a level 2 spell: Searing Ray 9395 | D:7 | Identified a scroll of acquirement 9486 | D:8 | Noticed a boulder beetle 9529 | D:8 | Killed a boulder beetle 9536 | D:8 | Noticed a yaktaur captain 9863 | D:8 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 51/51 MP: 10/24 9970 | D:8 | Noticed a red ugly thing 10028 | D:8 | Killed a brown ugly thing 10028 | D:8 | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth 10592 | D:9 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 10630 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 11171 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 11171 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth 11448 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 11448 | D:9 | Noticed a fire drake 11456 | D:9 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 56/56 MP: 15/25 11463 | D:9 | Killed a fire drake 11608 | D:9 | Got a crude ring mail 11609 | D:9 | Identified the +3 ring mail "Ophyf" {rF+ Dex+4} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) 11701 | D:9 | Offered knowledge of Inner Flame by Vehumet. 11752 | D:9 | Noticed Edmund 11872 | D:9 | Killed Edmund 12102 | D:9 | the staircase to the Lair was a mimic. 12279 | D:10 | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon 12539 | D:10 | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth 12715 | D:10 | Noticed Fannar 12906 | D:10 | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting 13297 | D:10 | HP: 2/58 [Fannar/Ozocubu's Refrigeration (14)] 13663 | D:10 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 13856 | D:10 | Acquired Vehumet's second power 14242 | D:11 | Noticed an unseen horror 14269 | D:10 | Killed an unseen horror 14311 | D:10 | Offered knowledge of Olgreb's Toxic Radiance by Vehumet. 14494 | D:11 | Noticed an elephant 14583 | D:11 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 15343 | D:11 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 69/69 MP: 19/26 15705 | D:11 | Found Ypnam's Jewellery Emporium. 15728 | D:11 | Bought the ring of the Tuna {Str+3 Int+3 SInv} for 415 gold pieces 16298 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 16996 | Lair:1 | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of beneficial mutation] 17223 | Lair:1 | Acquired Vehumet's third power 17544 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 18014 | Lair:1 | Offered knowledge of Iskenderun's Mystic Blast by Vehumet. 18074 | Lair:1 | Learned a level 4 spell: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast 19598 | Lair:2 | Offered knowledge of Poisonous Cloud by Vehumet. 20209 | Lair:2 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 20223 | Lair:2 | Killed a four-headed hydra 20223 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging 20223 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 12 in Conjurations 20641 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 20641 | Lair:3 | Noticed a five-headed hydra 20645 | Lair:3 | Killed a five-headed hydra 20645 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Armour 20690 | Lair:3 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 77/77 MP: 5/29 21520 | Lair:3 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 21524 | Lair:3 | Killed an eight-headed hydra 22232 | Lair:4 | Found a dark tunnel. 22240 | Volcano | Entered a volcano 22418 | Volcano | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 22785 | Volcano | Reached skill level 13 in Conjurations 23029 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades 23226 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 23355 | Lair:4 | Learned a level 7 spell: Orb of Destruction 23444 | Lair:4 | Gained mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [potion of beneficial mutation] 23978 | Lair:4 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 24099 | Lair:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Armour 25817 | Lair:6 | Noticed a six-headed hydra 25826 | Lair:6 | Killed a six-headed hydra 25826 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 13. HP: 64/81 MP: 13/32 26178 | Lair:5 | Lost strength. 26299 | Lair:5 | Lost mutation: You have a pair of small horns on your head. [helix card] 26299 | Lair:5 | Gained mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [helix card] 26429 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Long Blades 26722 | Lair:6 | Your ally Weines died 27258 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 14 in Conjurations 27263 | Lair:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Shields 28918 | Lair:7 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 29256 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 29620 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields 30063 | Lair:8 | Got an encrusted battleaxe 30496 | Lair:8 | Reached XP level 14. HP: 39/88 MP: 32/32 30957 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 15 in Conjurations 31498 | Lair:8 | Offered knowledge of Conjure Ball Lightning by Vehumet. 32005 | Lair:8 | Identified Emanoaj's Incunabulum of Gliding Execration 32185 | Lair:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Long Blades 32700 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 32721 | Orc:1 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 33318 | Orc:2 | Noticed Josephine 33609 | Orc:2 | Noticed Psyche 33631 | Orc:2 | Killed Psyche 33811 | Orc:2 | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh. 34059 | Orc:2 | Killed Josephine 34329 | Orc:2 | Noticed Nergalle 34571 | Orc:2 | Killed Nergalle 34740 | Orc:3 | Found a frozen archway. 34846 | IceCv | Entered an ice cave 35057 | IceCv | Offered knowledge of Ozocubu's Refrigeration by Vehumet. 35900 | IceCv | Noticed a frost giant 35956 | IceCv | Killed a frost giant 36322 | IceCv | Identified Jiro's Grimoire of the Frostbite 36442 | IceCv | Lost mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [helix card] 36447 | IceCv | Gained mutation: You are resistant to hostile enchantments. [helix card] 37302 | Orc:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines 37302 | Orc:4 | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls. 37302 | Orc:4 | Found Ugesch's Jewellery Shoppe. 37981 | Orc:3 | Offered knowledge of Poison Arrow by Vehumet. 38223 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 16 in Conjurations 38330 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields 38649 | Orc:4 | Found Grim's Antique Weapon Emporium. 38706 | Orc:4 | Found Fuenlor's Book Shop. 38709 | Orc:4 | Bought the ring "Bluc" {SustAb rElec rF++ Curse} for 637 gold pieces 38719 | Orc:4 | Found Psoop's Weapon Shoppe. 39116 | Orc:4 | Reached XP level 15. HP: 97/99 MP: 25/34 39935 | Snake:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit 40091 | Snake:1 | Noticed Roxanne 40206 | Snake:1 | Offered knowledge of Spellforged Servitor by Vehumet. 41242 | Snake:1 | Killed Roxanne 41249 | Snake:1 | Identified Roxanne's Handbook of Transmutation (You took it off Roxanne on level 1 of the Snake Pit) 41352 | Snake:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting 41537 | Snake:1 | Noticed Nikola 41636 | Snake:1 | Killed Nikola 42273 | Snake:2 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 45263 | Snake:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 45427 | Snake:3 | Offered knowledge of Freezing Cloud by Vehumet. 45453 | Snake:3 | Learned a level 6 spell: Freezing Cloud 45903 | Snake:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic 46425 | Snake:3 | Reached XP level 16. HP: 104/109 MP: 16/36 46914 | Snake:4 | Noticed Saint Roka 47908 | Snake:4 | Noticed Jorgrun 48533 | Snake:3 | Killed Jorgrun 48726 | Snake:4 | Killed Saint Roka 49549 | Snake:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit 49983 | Snake:4 | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Glaciate by Vehumet. 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Chain Lightning by Vehumet. 50460 | Snake:5 | Offered knowledge of Tornado by Vehumet. 50742 | Snake:5 | Got a polished leather armour 50841 | Snake:5 | Identified the +0 leather armour "Ataotwao" {Slay+2} (You found it on level 5 of the Snake Pit) 52950 | Snake:5 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 100/115 MP: 0/37 53378 | Snake:4 | Learned a level 8 spell: Chain Lightning 55839 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 10 in Air Magic 56303 | Snake:5 | Got a serpentine rune of Zot 56328 | Snake:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth 58434 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals 59185 | D:12 | Found Ghiurivviti's Jewellery Emporium. 59206 | D:12 | Found Golafus' Antique Armour Boutique. 59349 | D:12 | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One. 59365 | D:12 | Found Epledir's Antique Weapon Shop. 59416 | D:12 | Found Klidaj's Jewellery Shop. 59428 | D:12 | Bought the amulet "Uroprox" {rMut Dex+3 Int+3} for 894 gold pieces 59630 | D:12 | Found Schuoro's Book Shoppe. 59703 | D:13 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging 60078 | D:13 | Found a gate to the Vaults. 60145 | D:13 | Got a faintly glowing cutlass 60147 | D:13 | Identified the +8 cutlass of Shriteipp {pain, rF++ Int+3} (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon) 60155 | D:13 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 120/120 MP: 30/38 61048 | D:14 | Found Plog's Assorted Antiques. 61253 | D:14 | Noticed Kirke 61268 | D:14 | Killed Kirke 61351 | D:14 | Noticed Maud 61363 | D:14 | Killed Maud 61696 | D:14 | Noticed Urug 61708 | D:14 | Killed Urug 61883 | D:14 | Noticed Erica 61892 | D:14 | Killed Erica 62063 | D:15 | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon 62425 | D:15 | Found a staircase to the Depths. 63058 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults 63844 | Vaults:1 | Found Joisocviyth's General Store. 63851 | Vaults:1 | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 676 gold pieces 64973 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 17 in Stealth 66112 | Vaults:1 | Learned a level 9 spell: Tornado 66754 | Vaults:2 | Found Irrusuda's Book Boutique. 66760 | Vaults:2 | Bought a book of Wizardry for 360 gold pieces 67080 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 19. HP: 126/126 MP: 38/38 68127 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt. 68144 | Vaults:2 | Noticed Sojobo 69184 | Vaults:2 | Killed Sojobo 69501 | Vaults:3 | Found Zuiraq's General Store. 70612 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Air Magic 72192 | Vaults:4 | Learned a level 4 spell: Control Teleport 72293 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Donald 72302 | Vaults:4 | Killed Donald 72653 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Aizul 72759 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 129/129 MP: 40/40 72951 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 18 in Dodging 73266 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 116/134 MP: 11/41 76251 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Frances 76257 | Shoals:2 | Killed Frances 76419 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Polyphemus 76564 | Shoals:3 | Killed Polyphemus 77483 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 15 in Spellcasting 78042 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 19 in Dodging 78833 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Wiglaf 78841 | Shoals:4 | Killed Wiglaf 79868 | Shoals:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Shoals 80337 | Shoals:5 | Learned a level 6 spell: Haste 80409 | Shoals:5 | Noticed Ilsuiw 80782 | Shoals:5 | Killed Ilsuiw 81580 | Shoals:5 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 133/140 MP: 39/43 81728 | Shoals:5 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot 82275 | Crypt:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Crypt 82501 | Crypt:1 | Noticed Agnes 82510 | Crypt:1 | Killed Agnes 84451 | Crypt:2 | Noticed Frederick 84458 | Crypt:2 | Killed Frederick 85080 | Crypt:2 | Reached skill level 20 in Dodging 85988 | Crypt:3 | Entered Level 3 of the Crypt 87458 | Crypt:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Charms 87661 | Crypt:3 | Identified the Handbook of Evil Rites (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt) 87991 | Crypt:3 | Noticed an ancient lich 87991 | Crypt:3 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 87997 | Crypt:3 | Killed an ancient lich 88940 | Crypt:3 | Found a staircase to the Tomb. 89128 | Crypt:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Charms 89295 | Crypt:3 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 145/145 MP: 20/44 89339 | Crypt:3 | Got a slimy ivory ring 89999 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults 90006 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 21 in Dodging 90008 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich 90115 | Vaults:4 | Identified the ring of Skedezxi {SustAb rF+ SInv} (You took it off a vampire on level 3 of the Crypt) 90195 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich 91031 | Vaults:4 | Learned a level 5 spell: Phase Shift 91619 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations 91855 | Vaults:5 | Got a slimy wooden ring 91856 | Vaults:5 | Identified the ring "Peush" {+Blink rF+ AC+6 SInv} (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 5 of the Vaults) 92103 | Vaults:5 | Reached XP level 24. HP: 136/151 MP: 29/46 92615 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 22 in Dodging 92790 | Vaults:5 | Got a silver rune of Zot 93387 | Vaults:5 | Learned a level 7 spell: Controlled Blink 93809 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich 93817 | Vaults:5 | Killed an ancient lich 94127 | Vaults:5 | Noticed Mara 94610 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths 94743 | Depths:1 | Found Ewke Cul's Distillery. 94867 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate leading to the halls of Pandemonium. 95059 | Depths:1 | Found a gateway to Hell. 95108 | Hell | Entered the Vestibule of Hell 95108 | Hell | Noticed Geryon 95142 | Hell | Killed Geryon 95217 | Hell | Reached skill level 10 in Translocations 95279 | Hell | Found a gateway to the decaying netherworld of Tartarus. 95650 | Hell | Found a gateway to the ashen valley of Gehenna. 95685 | Hell | Found a gateway to the Iron City of Dis. 96313 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 23 in Dodging 96313 | Depths:1 | Reached XP level 25. HP: 154/162 MP: 16/46 98079 | Depths:2 | Got a colourful robe 98080 | Depths:2 | Identified the cursed -5 robe "Creide" {Int+3 Stlth---} (You found it on level 2 of the Depths) 98116 | Depths:2 | Found a gateway to Hell. 98683 | Depths:3 | Found a gateway to Hell. 100007 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 24 in Dodging 100432 | Depths:4 | Found a gateway to Hell. 100838 | Depths:4 | Identified the Volume of Translocation and Air (You found it on level 4 of the Depths) 100842 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness 100856 | Depths:4 | Identified Adobleoc's Guide on Confrontation and Flames 100868 | Depths:4 | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna. 100872 | Depths:4 | Noticed an ancient lich 100884 | Depths:4 | Killed an ancient lich 100884 | Depths:4 | Reached XP level 26. HP: 108/179 MP: 15/47 101073 | Depths:4 | Identified the Collected Works on Congealing Battle Magic 101097 | Depths:4 | Identified Sif Muna's Incunabulum of Creative Flight (You found it on level 4 of the Depths) 101106 | Depths:4 | Identified the Catalogue of Supportive Weightlessness (You found it on level 4 of the Depths) 101111 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight 101116 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 4 spell: Airstrike 101161 | Depths:4 | Identified Easy Sorcery (You found it on level 4 of the Depths) 101165 | Depths:4 | Learned a level 2 spell: Shroud of Golubria 101207 | Depths:4 | Identified Sif Muna's Incunabulum of the Frostbite (You found it on level 4 of the Depths) 101411 | Depths:4 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss. 101476 | Depths:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Depths 101632 | Depths:5 | Found a gateway to Hell. 102318 | Depths:5 | Found a gate to the Realm of Zot. 102712 | Depths:5 | Found a gateway to a ziggurat. 102744 | Zig:1 | Entered Level 1 of a ziggurat 102751 | Zig:1 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting 102889 | Zig:2 | Entered Level 2 of a ziggurat 102930 | Zig:3 | Entered Level 3 of a ziggurat 103079 | Zig:4 | Entered Level 4 of a ziggurat 103142 | Zig:5 | Entered Level 5 of a ziggurat 103190 | Zig:6 | Entered Level 6 of a ziggurat 103383 | Zig:7 | Entered Level 7 of a ziggurat 103419 | Zig:7 | Got a heavily runed glass ring 103421 | Zig:7 | Identified the ring of Ibemyamo {Str+2 Dex+2 Slay+6} (You found it on level 7 of a ziggurat) 103443 | Zig:7 | Identified a +2 rod of destruction (14/14) (You found it on level 3 of a ziggurat) 103453 | Zig:8 | Entered Level 8 of a ziggurat 103658 | Zig:9 | Entered Level 9 of a ziggurat 104496 | Zot:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Realm of Zot 105293 | Zot:1 | Got a pair of brightly glowing boots 105294 | Zot:1 | Identified the +0 pair of boots of the Vacuum {Str+3 Dex-5} (You found it on level 1 of the Realm of Zot) 105721 | Zot:1 | Reached skill level 25 in Dodging 105815 | Zot:1 | Got a faintly glowing leather armour 105816 | Zot:1 | Identified the +4 leather armour "Poep" {Str+3 Int+2} (You found it on level 1 of the Realm of Zot) 106564 | Zot:2 | Noticed an orb of fire 106598 | Zot:2 | Killed an orb of fire 107110 | Zot:2 | Got a steaming long sword 107111 | Zot:2 | Identified the cursed +1 long sword "Guischil" {vamp, +Blink} (You found it on level 2 of the Realm of Zot) 107341 | Zot:2 | Reached XP level 27. HP: 116/190 MP: 43/47 107839 | Zot:3 | Noticed an orb of fire 107856 | Zot:3 | Killed an orb of fire 109567 | Zot:4 | Gained mutation: Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP). [mutagenic glow] 110198 | Zot:4 | Reached skill level 26 in Dodging 110651 | Zot:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot 110803 | Zot:5 | Got an ichor-stained helmet 110804 | Zot:5 | Identified the -2 helmet of the Harvest {rPois rF++} (You acquired it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot) 110962 | Zot:5 | Noticed an ancient lich 110969 | Zot:5 | Killed an ancient lich 111753 | Zot:5 | Noticed an ancient lich 111770 | Zot:5 | Killed an ancient lich 112391 | Zot:5 | Noticed an orb of fire 112461 | Zot:5 | Noticed an orb of fire 112516 | Zot:5 | Killed an orb of fire 112528 | Zot:5 | Noticed an orb of fire 112544 | Zot:5 | Killed an orb of fire 112898 | Zot:5 | Got an encrusted large shield 112899 | Zot:5 | Identified the +1 large shield of Henotheism {rC+ SInv} (You acquired it on level 5 of the Realm of Zot) 112934 | Zot:5 | Killed an orb of fire 113084 | Zot:5 | Noticed an orb of fire 113086 | Zot:5 | Gained mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [an orb of fire] 113098 | Zot:5 | Killed an orb of fire 113364 | Zot:5 | Gained mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [mutagenic glow] 113533 | Zot:5 | Reached skill level 27 in Dodging 113621 | Zot:5 | Noticed an ancient lich 113646 | Zot:5 | Killed an ancient lich 114614 | Slime:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime 115141 | Slime:6 | Entered Level 6 of the Pits of Slime 115154 | Slime:6 | Gained mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [a shining eye] 115161 | Slime:6 | Lost mutation: Your flesh is cold resistant. [potion of cure mutation] 115161 | Slime:6 | Lost mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [potion of cure mutation] 115161 | Slime:6 | Lost mutation: Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP). [potion of cure mutation] 115161 | Slime:6 | Lost mutation: Your vision is a little blurry. [potion of cure mutation] 115812 | Slime:6 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 115812 | Slime:6 | Noticed the royal jelly 115841 | Slime:6 | Killed the royal jelly 116432 | Slime:6 | Got a slimy rune of Zot 116562 | Slime:6 | Got a twitching granite ring 116629 | Slime:6 | Identified the ring "Etamoap" {rN+ Str-5 Dex-2} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime) 117218 | Depths:5 | Lost mutation: You are resistant to hostile enchantments. [potion of cure mutation] 117218 | Depths:5 | Lost mutation: You are clumsy. (Dex -2) [potion of cure mutation] 117976 | Zot:5 | Got the Orb of Zot 118100 | Depths:5 | Noticed Wajysch the pandemonium lord 118191 | Depths:2 | Noticed Chieciuz the pandemonium lord 118316 | D:13 | Noticed Etatem the pandemonium lord 118425 | D:12 | Gained mutation: Your system is resistant to poisons. [mutagenic glow] 118738 | D:$ | Escaped with the Orb! Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Dagger | 9 | 32 | 114 | 285 | | | | | || 440 Unarmed | | 2 | | | | | | | || 2 Staff | | | 1 | 5 | 22 | 11 | 1 | 16 | 31 || 87 Demon blade | | | | 47 | 990 | 733 | 682 | 431 | 953 || 3836 Throw: Throwing net | | | | | 1 | 2 | | 1 | || 4 Cast: Magic Dart | 79 | 187 | 280 | 332 | 213 | 15 | | | || 1106 Call Imp | 4 | 17 | 32 | 25 | 1 | | | | || 79 Mephitic Cloud | 1 | 8 | 48 | 54 | 38 | | | | || 149 Blink | | 3 | 16 | 24 | 26 | 30 | 2 | 1 | 2 || 104 Repel Missiles | | 1 | | 1 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 4 || 15 Conjure Flame | | | 10 | 15 | | | | | || 25 Sting | | | 16 | 86 | 3 | 4 | | | || 109 Searing Ray | | | 8 | 42 | 2 | | | | || 52 Iskenderun's Myst | | | | 187 | 444 | 344 | 424 | 610 | 376 || 2385 Orb of Destructio | | | | | 50 | 39 | 26 | 39 | 15 || 169 Freezing Cloud | | | | | 5 | 168 | 68 | 11 | 3 || 255 Chain Lightning | | | | | | 1 | 17 | 6 | 25 || 49 Control Teleport | | | | | | | 4 | 2 | 3 || 9 Tornado | | | | | | | | 69 | 149 || 218 Phase Shift | | | | | | | | 7 | 29 || 36 Haste | | | | | | | | 2 | 30 || 32 Shroud of Golubri | | | | | | | | | 12 || 12 Flight | | | | | | | | | 4 || 4 Controlled Blink | | | | | | | | | 3 || 3 Evoke: Wand | | 5 | 5 | 1 | 10 | 2 | 1 | | 1 || 25 Deck | | 7 | | | 25 | | | | || 32 Use: Scroll | | | 20 | 24 | 17 | 21 | 17 | 9 | 34 || 142 Potion | | | 2 | 2 | 17 | 14 | 5 | 5 | 16 || 61 Stab: Paralysed | | 1 | | | | | | | || 1 Confused | | 1 | 6 | 25 | 34 | | | | || 66 Distracted | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 || 21 Sleeping | | | | 3 | 4 | 28 | 6 | | 17 || 58 Eat: Chunk | 3 | 2 | 4 | 9 | 28 | 48 | 42 | 17 | 36 || 189 Meat ration | | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 || 23 Bread ration | | | | 6 | 8 | 5 | | 4 | 8 || 31 Royal jelly | | | | 1 | 1 | 4 | | | || 6 Pizza | | | | | | 9 | | 1 | 4 || 14 Beef jerky | | | | | | 8 | | 1 | || 9 Fruit | | | | | | 16 | | 9 | 10 || 35

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 02:30 by xentronium

Watch out, you can focus yourself to death!

Edit: Thankfully not literally anymore.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 04:01 by rchandra

Trying to play with 2 or less str is extremely dangerous.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 13:20 by savageorange

rchandra wrote:Trying to play with 2 or less str is extremely dangerous.

Wow.. So, you totally lose your ability to evade? Yikes.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 14:15 by rchandra

You get paralysed and slowed (stacks with other slows, including other 0-stats), while paralysed you have no evasion.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 18:35 by xentronium

Try reducing all your stats to zero in wizmode. You'll see how much the penalties stack!

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 18:50 by tasonir

I like how a character with 1 str (before the -2 mutation) was carrying around a +12 CPA because you never know. Just in case he happened to suddenly gain 20 strength, he might switch to AC. Seems plausible.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 18:52 by and into

^ I'm thinking, maybe he was on the way to a trove?

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 19:49 by XuaXua

This is the sort of thing that happens when you remove carrying weight restrictions.

Thursday, 25th September 2014, 21:33 by duvessa

And the problem with that is...?

Friday, 26th September 2014, 05:50 by Hobnails

The problem is it's a completely ridiculous removal of an already functionally implemented system in the name of decreased micro-management. We'd also be able to decrease micro-management by removing the food system entirely, or by giving people up/down stairs access anywhere in the level like a formicid on crack-- this would all increase ease of play, but it would also be completely ridiculous and make the game objectively worse. Sure, it's a videogame, and I can believe in magic as a concept, but I can't believe a Spriggan can carry 104 large stones or what have you. Especially when it didn't use to be that way. But then again, this is running into thread derailment territory.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 06:00 by Patashu

Hobnails wrote:We'd also be able to decrease micro-management by removing the food system entirely

A lot of people want this to happen, actually.
It happened in Crawl Light. Instead of spells costing hunger, they cost 'contam' on a contam bar that would go down IIRC with gaining xp.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 06:11 by and into

(Also stair access wherever you want it would majorly impact game play in addition to sometimes being convenient, whereas carrying capacity only impacted game play in unusual situations (like sudden banishment) and in extreme cases of low strength. Banishment is already something you don't want to happen to you, and having very low values for any stat is something you are already discouraged from having because being reduced to 0 strength is staggeringly bad and likely to kill you if it happens. So, many of the aspects of carrying capacity that really affected game play were largely redundant, while also being a huge inconvenience, *much* more so than having to move toward one of three staircases or a hatch when traveling amongst already explored areas. Coincidentally, removing carrying capacity also removed a lot of the need to travel amongst already explored areas in order to retrieve stuff from the floor, which has always had infinite strength, as it were, when it comes to weight capacity.)

Friday, 26th September 2014, 06:18 by Hobnails

Excuse me for my impudence but, bullocks. The removal of a weight restriction effects almost every race in a different way, which has not been accounted for yet in the balance. Trolls used to have a huge carry weight advantage, tempered by their unique incentive to carry burdensome stones- which required trolls to choose between a strength build for throwing mastery, or dex for better evasion. It has been pointed out how vampires have been dramatically affected by the unstated boon to bat form. Spriggans, kobolds, Halflings, all of these had unique carry weight concerns that they would be forced to deal with using stat distribution or suffer increased burden (literally and metaphorically). I could go on how this has not been addressed at all, I could also go on about how None of These Changes Had to Happen At All. You developers are making needless busy work for yourselves when you could put your copious talents to far more rewarding programming and game expansion concerns.

How about more content instead of less content in the new editions?

Sorry if I'm derailing too hard.

Also, as for the food system, I was actually just drawing for things that could be removed to increase ease but wouldn't make any sense. The idea of endless streamlining will lead us down a very dark rabbit hole.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 08:53 by duvessa

Friday, 26th September 2014, 08:56 by rchandra

tasonir wrote:I like how a character with 1 str (before the -2 mutation) was carrying around a +12 CPA because you never know. Just in case he happened to suddenly gain 20 strength, he might switch to AC. Seems plausible.

Couldn't do that (spriggan) - just showing off my fine CPA with plenty of scrolls that of course happens as Sp.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 08:58 by and into

Well, Greyr ascended the character that this (initially) CIP thread was about, so I wouldn't worry too much about off topic in this case. The train has already come to rest at its final destination, and all passengers and crew disembarked. Derailing is not a major worry. (EDIT: Well okay I'll move it to CYC; Greyr's character is now in Valhalla and as a treat gets to enjoy our wide-ranging, interesting discussion.)

______

I would not say that there were never any cases wherein the old weight limits gave rise to meaningful (non-trivial) tension and decisions. The problem is that, perhaps with the exception of a character with extremely (and unnecessarily) low strength, you could bypass >90% of the general effect that carrying capacity had, simply by scrupulously (and tediously) replacing consumables you use (or that got destroyed) by backtracking to them. So in effect your weight limit was only a limit for those discrete stretches of time that exist between two good 5ings or autotravels or whatever.

There are specific things, like bat form, for which weight limits more often did something, because they were often too difficult or bothersome to get around, but my point is that, if you want to balance narrow, specific, discrete things like large rocks or bat form, then weight is a bad overarching system to have in place, given that you can just adjust those specific things on a case by case basis.

Removing item destruction and weight limits represent a major overhaul and some specific things are still in need of adjustment and rebalancing, I'm sure; carrying large numbers of evocables is something that was mentioned in GDD just recently, in fact. I trust that the dev team will figure that stuff out, moving forward. In the mean time, I'll enjoy the fact that my decisions regarding stat allocation are being made on the basis of what I judge to help my character's survival the most, not on the basis of avoiding the annoyance caused by an overly broad and inelegant system.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 10:01 by Hobnails

The vast majority of weight never came from consumables like potions and scrolls (maybe food, but the modern system still entirely requires food stashing due to limited item slots) It came from high value items, like weapon swaps, wands, and misc envokables. It's really easy to say inventory weight management was useless by dismissing the decision making factors that go into it as trivial, but are they really trivial decisions?. Consider this an appeal to authority, but almost Every single fantasy game anywhere near this genera has some sort of weight system within. Some have more forgiving weight systems, some have more stringent, they all have them. All (about 95%) of tabletop games even have inventory management, and that requires papers, pencils, math, and all other kinds of unsavory things. It's an extremely important decision deciding what you're bringing with you at any given time as your "loadout" or "Kit". In many runs, especially for melee characters, deciding which envokables and throwables to bring is one of the greatest customizable aspects of your character, otherwise it's mostly RNG sifting and tab+o+c+e. I think it's kind of scary how good bots are at playing this game- to me that shows how overly simplified and procedural it's getting.

You're argument is kind of playing into mine-- yes, maybe a few of the features removed could be replaced with improved versions, but they were already OK (and could of been refined instead of removed), and as you admitted the developers have created a mountain of work for themselves with trying to balance the systems they just messed with. Weight capacity made strength useful for all classes- now you're seeing (proof pudding present in thread) people dancing around with minimum strengths, optimal dex, and maxed Int because the system is rapidly becoming a procedural checklist on the way to becoming a buff+tab+o monstrosity or a 2 spell apocalypse wizard. Egghead characters need a (Small) incentive for strength- I also believe beefy characters need a (Small) incentive for int- if just to make randomly generated stats feel less like a complete let down. But that's beside my main point. You're seeing trolls walking around with 102 large stones. Do you think completely removing all aspects of ammo management, scavenging, and Plan-B improvisation for streamlined ease is a good trade? It feels like I'm carefully explained to how wonderful the new dictionary is because it's three times as thin, and it has the Ministry of Truth stamp of approval.

By snipping away at all these "trivial" decisions, they are rapidly degrading this game into something that's fit mostly for some sporadically played mobile game, not the careful trek through a foreboding and dangerous dungeon I'm used to. If this game wants to become something completely different than what it was, fine, but that doesn't mean the changes were for the better just because it's following some design philosophy or another to it's absolute extremes.

As long as I'm soapboxing, I'll also point out how the removal of things like corrosion, item destruction, and even sickness from some enemies (why ruin Komodos?) devolves the decision making path for every single fighting encounter to "Will this encounter put me at 0 health, or not?". Sure you might have to worry about using a buff here or an escape there, but if you can tab em', you needn't even mind yourself with em'. The games getting really easy to be lazily played- I'm not seeing the "important" decisions that are supposedly being introduced to replace the "trivial" decisions we're rapidly chucking out, are you? What new decisions have we been granted by these new editions? Can you forecast any good ones on the way? Or just more balancing to get back to where we were (but with less)? What makes this even worse is that there ARE Fantastic improvements in this new edition- but I'm just not seeing nearly enough pros to justify all these cons. Things like removing the ability to actually equip Beoghite orcs just to offer a randomized "streamlined" alternative is a terrible spackle on the true flaws that Beogh worship has. I'm seeing cases like this all over the place. You can call it needless quibbling or just plain reaching for the nostalgia glasses, but I just wanted to let the community at large know that this game is rapidly "evolving" into something I'm having less fun playing. Which is why I rant.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 10:35 by Sar

Hobnails wrote:The vast majority of weight never came from consumables like potions and scrolls

I'm not so sure about that.

Hobnails wrote:modern system still entirely requires food stashing

Or you an just eat everything but the meat/bread rations on the spot.

Hobnails wrote:Every single fantasy game anywhere near this genera has some sort of weight system within.

Do those games also have stash trackers and near-instant autotravel?

Hobnails wrote:otherwise it's mostly RNG sifting and tab+o+c+e

That's Crawl, yeah.

Hobnails wrote:they were already OK

Weight wasn't OK for a reason mentioned already countless times. Okay, I'll repeat it once more: levels are persistent. You can backtrack. This doesn't apply only to a few areas, but it does apply to the majority of the game.

I mean, I do feel oddly nostalgic about certain "bad" aspects of the game that was removed (I'm in the minority, though). But weight was just disgusting. You could easily win a Str 4 DEFE (I know it because I did it) with 15 runes and a couple of Zigs. Pump Int, storm dudes, stop 3-4 times per floor and spend some time deciding what to drop. That got tiresome fast. Later, I was reluctant to play stuff like Sp or Ko or Ha because their base Str was crap. If I did, I would always pump Str, and still at some point I would find myself starting at the inventory screen, wondering how many potions of this and that should I drop. That wasn't a difficult task, but it wasn't very fun either.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 11:15 by and into

There were lots of worries about how *exactly* to handle experience allocation when the need for victory dancing was removed. This created more work for the dev team, I guess, but I'm glad they took it upon themselves to fix a really terrible aspect of the game, and over a couple of versions they implemented a much better experience system.

There aren't "classes" in Crawl (that's not just semantic, Crawl's version of "classes" is also different from how "Every single fantasy game anywhere near this genre"), but putting that aside, strength is useful for a lot of characters, because wearing stuff that gives you good AC and casting spells at the same time is good, and doing more damage is good. The only stat that tends ever to be completely worthless is intelligence, actually, in that if you aren't casting spells, you just want enough to not have to worry about hitting 0 and getting brainless status, since brainless is really bad.

If you want to try to cut it with 3 strength or whatever, go for it, but it isn't a great idea, as people in this thread pointed out. But if people want to possibly threaten their character's survival by playing a certain way, that's fine. I'm glad that Crawl doesn't threaten the *player's* sanity by leaving stuff like victory dancing and weight capacity in the game.

You really should step off the soapbox, as you say, and try to take a more sober look at the game. Depths is exceedingly more dangerous and taxing than that section of old dungeon was. Rune lock often forces you to do difficult branches with limited resources. A lot of enemies have been added and, while I don't like all of them and I worry about bloat in the game, in this respect, it has made the game more difficult. God wrath can no longer be avoided through cheesy scummy methods, meaning that you can't input real-life player time in exchange for swapping around religions to suit your immediate needs. In terms of making Crawl a tough game that forces difficult decisions, all of these changes are about a million times more meaningful than the most meaningful effects of carrying capacity.

Hell, even with the specific thing you cited, corrosion... Man, have you *played* slime or Zot since corrosion changed? Because going from 36 AC to 6 in Zot when a bunch of yellow draconians are around is an order of magnitude scarier than having to swap around some equipment and maybe losing the equivalent of 4 or 5 enchant armor scrolls. And I got super-corroded in Zot precisely because I (foolishly) tabbed through a corridor that happened to have quite a few yellow dracs, because I underestimated new corrosion. I lived and ascended, but lesson learned. *Unlike* old corrosion, new corrosion forces you to be mindful of your play and be careful, because you are in a dangerous, forbidding dungeon, and there now exists a form of attack that meaningfully erodes your AC, and it will kill you if you don't pay it heed.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 12:06 by Sar

Well Crawl is essentially a classless RPG, "classes" here are just sets of skill and items. I'm pretty sure it's not the only classless fantasy RPG system out there, though!

Also Int drainers are the most common stat drainers by far (quasits drain Dex and I can't recall a Str drainer right now so maybe nothing even does that), so completely dumping Int actually can affect you negatively, especially since !restab doesn't insta-cure Brainlessness and it's a pretty awful status to have in Crawl.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 15:15 by Lasty

Hobnails wrote:appeal to authority . . Ministry of Truth . . . rapidly degrading this game . . . I'm soapboxing . . .removal of things like . . . devolves the decision making path . . . I'm not seeing the "important" decisions that are supposedly being introduced to replace the "trivial" decisions we're rapidly chucking out, are you? . . . I rant.

Once you're ready to hop off the ol' soap box, you can pop over to the design subforum and use the search tool to determine why the changes you hate were made. Spoiler: other people who also care deeply about the game thought about these issues carefully, talked it over at length, and made arguments for a variety of options including leaving things as they were. The most convincing arguments were that many of these things you miss are just ways to irritate or interface-screw players, and not actually adding challenge or significant decisions.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 17:01 by nilsbloodaxe

Hobnails wrote:The vast majority of weight never came from consumables like potions and scrolls (maybe food, but the modern system still entirely requires food stashing due to limited item slots) It came from high value items, like weapon swaps, wands, and misc envokables.

Then you were playing wrong, and clearly still are, since you should just eat all permafood other than rations (and fruits if you are going Fedhas).

Hobnails wrote:Consider this an appeal to authority, but almost Every single fantasy game anywhere near this genera has some sort of weight system within. Some have more forgiving weight systems, some have more stringent, they all have them.

Well first, why are we only talking about fantasy games near this genre? This is a roguelike, a genre with hundreds of games that we can compare it to. Here is a really short list of Roguelikes without weight: DoomRL, AliensRL, Powder, Pixel Dungeon, and a whole lot more.

Hobnails wrote:I think it's kind of scary how good bots are at playing this game- to me that shows how overly simplified and procedural it's getting.

Ahh, the old, let's pull something out of my ass trick. This is not true at all, bots are terrible at this game. The ones that win play extremely easy combos and some even revert to human control in certain circumstances.

Hobnails wrote:As long as I'm soapboxing, I'll also point out how the removal of things like corrosion, item destruction, and even sickness from some enemies (why ruin Komodos?) devolves the decision making path for every single fighting encounter to "Will this encounter put me at 0 health, or not?".

This is how you play crawl well, and how you played crawl well with those things.

Friday, 26th September 2014, 18:18 by Greyr

Ahh, the old, let's pull something out of my ass trick.

Lol!

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 00:18 by mikee

duvessa wrote:

The best part is that they're 13 years old.

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 01:10 by Greyr

mikee wrote:
duvessa wrote:

The best part is that they're 13 years old.

That sounds about right.

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 06:44 by Arrhythmia

duvessa wrote:

This is actually my highschool yearbook photo minmay please stop doxxing me

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 11:35 by Bloax

since when is tavern a highschool

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 15:40 by Greyr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Hard_Knocks

Saturday, 27th September 2014, 23:32 by gammafunk

I would just like to say that I enjoyed reading this thread. Keep up the good work Tavern.

CIP: More slaying?

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Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

Re: CIP: More slaying?

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