Post here when you go dith and don't use Shadow Form

[Patashu]

*post post post*

[Klown]

I literally stopped playing Dithmenos because I found myself not using his abilities at all.

[Patashu]

I literally stopped playing Dithmenos because I found myself not using his abilities at all.

Buff Dith, let Shadow Step work on netted enemies

[Hopeless]

I never go dith now as I don't like being constantly frustrated and annoyed. Nice idea, poor execution imho.

[Hirsch I]

I never ever used any of his abilities, played it 3 times. boring.

[headcrab0803]

shadowform is good for ninjaing thoough

[KittenInMyCerealz]

I've played him twice and only used the Shadow Step. Both died because of boredom. I just don't get what I'm supposed to achieve with Shadow Form.

[Sar]

You're supposed to achieve not dying. 50% DR makes it somewhat easy. Used it to steal an orb once.

My favorite feature of Dith was shadow mimic using monster spells. One-shotting a stone giant with one Throw Icicle cast was pretty cool. I haven't tried Dith after that was changed to shadow bolts, though. Maybe it's still OK.

[dck]

unless GRUNT ruined it shadow shards are icicles with no element.
Still dang with no faith is pretty awkward since there is a big drop in reliability regarding shadow's chance of triggering if you go too low, and you want the piety to have good umbra and shadow step range anyway.

[tedric]

Dith got me my first spellcaster win (DsCj). Shadow Mimic on spells was amazing, it chewed through everything. I used Shadow Step 62 times, and never used Shadow Form.

I had so much fun I tried Dith again with a MfIE: used Shadow Step twice, Shadow Form never.

On the other hand, I am not (yet) a rune ninja-er. And I tend to be wary of spells/abilities that offer great benefits at great cost -- I've never been in a position to use Death's Door, for instance, but just the thought of it terrifies me.

[Lasty]

I love Dith, mostly for umbra, fog blood, and shadow mimic. Shadow Step is nuts if you actually go stabbing, but I almost never use shadow form. I probably should use it way more than I do. It seems like it's designed to reward launcher combat, since for some reason that doesn't get penalized by the form (unless I missed something), but I can see the escape/ninja potential for all characters.

[XuaXua]

I think the range of Shadow Step could be increased.

[Lasty]

It's already proportional to your piety, which closely tracks to your umbra size. At max piety, you can step anywhere in LOS (or very close to anywhere?).

[XuaXua]

It's already proportional to your piety, which closely tracks to your umbra size. At max piety, you can step anywhere in LOS (or very close anywhere?).

If I'm not mistaken, last I checked, which was very early on, it only targets unfriendlies; is that correct? Shouldn't it track allies as well?

[Patashu]

It's already proportional to your piety, which closely tracks to your umbra size. At max piety, you can step anywhere in LOS (or very close anywhere?).

If I'm not mistaken, last I checked, which was very early on, it only targets unfriendlies; is that correct? Shouldn't it track allies as well?

Well, your ally would have to be asleep, stupefied, fully petrified or paralyzed to shadow step it.

[XuaXua]

That's right; the sleeping restriction. Why is that in there, again?

[Patashu]

That's right; the sleeping restriction. Why is that in there, again?

It would be really OP if Shadow Step was 'controlled blink to anything for any reason', you'd just leave some fodder alive for a massively fast escape route from combat.

[headcrab0803]

That's right; the sleeping restriction. Why is that in there, again?

I think if shadow step thing worked for every alive creature almost every rune vaults would be a joke

[Patashu]

(I still want shadow step to work on netted enemies, plz?)
(Also, does your shadow clone throw a shadow net, and what does that do)

[nilsbloodaxe]

Shadow Form is perfect for ninjaing anything. I raided a couple nasty vaults that way. It can also be incredibly useful in escape, 50% damage reduction is a great way to stay alive. Shadow step is incredibly useful as a stabber. But the real advantages of Dith are his passive abilities. In this way I see him like Makhleb (though I won't say his summoning abilities aren't incredibly useful).

[cerealjynx]

Most of my Dith-ites are VPEn, so Shadow Form is out of the question unless I wanna chug a bunch of blood pots. Bat form is better for escaping anyway, I think.

[Hirsch I]

they are not mutually exclusive.

[nilsbloodaxe]

Most of my Dith-ites are VPEn, so Shadow Form is out of the question unless I wanna chug a bunch of blood pots. Bat form is better for escaping anyway, I think.

I do see how shadow form will not be quite as useful to the undead as some of the resists overlap, but what do blood pots have to do with Shadow Form?

[cerealjynx]

Most of my Dith-ites are VPEn, so Shadow Form is out of the question unless I wanna chug a bunch of blood pots. Bat form is better for escaping anyway, I think.

I do see how shadow form will not be quite as useful to the undead as some of the resists overlap, but what do blood pots have to do with Shadow Form?

If you can quaff enough to get to alive state, you can go shadow form.

[reaver]

Yes the passives of Dith are great but it's kind of hard to know when to use his abilities... I'm sure a better player than I could use them effectively but I never really used any of them.

[godzilla]

I don't know about shadow form, but VpEn^Dith is really great at Zigsprint. Free cBlink to a swarm of sleeping enemies is hugely powerful.

[kenmtraveller]

Dith feels like a god with tons of potential that I haven't figured out yet. I've played quite a few SpEn's with them and I get similar results to using Ashenzari, I do pretty well through Lair and Orc and early branch levels, then get splatted while trying to get a rune.

I think I'm failing because I haven't figured out yet when to use the abilities, and how much training invocations is worth. It's always, 'would getting some invocations be better than more dodging, or fighting, or stealth, or spellcasting, or hexes?' And I usually go with the other things because I know what the results will be. Even the passive Dith ability (enhancing stealth, and the umbra) are really good for a stabber.

One question I have: It seems like the shadow step ability doesn't work like passwall -- your target can wake up just as you step to them. Is that the case? it makes the ability really dangerous, because the creatures which pose threats are usually the ones you don't want to end up next to awake as a spriggan.

And shadow form...I get that it's great for ninjaing runes but I don't really do this; it feels like the penalties it imposes (damage output reduction , and reduced xp) aren't worth its benefits plus the opportunity cost of really training up invocations. But I feel like there must be an angle I'm missing here.

The other question I have about Dith is how it changes play with non-stabbers. Is a stealth ice conjurer of Dith possible? I hear he greatly increases damage output, which sounds awesome, but I mostly play fire conjurers, which he forbids.

[nilsbloodaxe]

Most of my Dith-ites are VPEn, so Shadow Form is out of the question unless I wanna chug a bunch of blood pots. Bat form is better for escaping anyway, I think.

I do see how shadow form will not be quite as useful to the undead as some of the resists overlap, but what do blood pots have to do with Shadow Form?

If you can quaff enough to get to alive state, you can go shadow form.

Actually, vampires can be at Bloodless and use Shadow Form. Ghouls and mummies are able to use shadow form, too.

[nilsbloodaxe]

Dith feels like a god with tons of potential that I haven't figured out yet. I've played quite a few SpEn's with them and I get similar results to using Ashenzari, I do pretty well through Lair and Orc and early branch levels, then get splatted while trying to get a rune.

I think I'm failing because I haven't figured out yet when to use the abilities, and how much training invocations is worth. It's always, 'would getting some invocations be better than more dodging, or fighting, or stealth, or spellcasting, or hexes?' And I usually go with the other things because I know what the results will be. Even the passive Dith ability (enhancing stealth, and the umbra) are really good for a stabber.

One question I have: It seems like the shadow step ability doesn't work like passwall -- your target can wake up just as you step to them. Is that the case? it makes the ability really dangerous, because the creatures which pose threats are usually the ones you don't want to end up next to awake as a spriggan.

And shadow form...I get that it's great for ninjaing runes but I don't really do this; it feels like the penalties it imposes (damage output reduction , and reduced xp) aren't worth its benefits plus the opportunity cost of really training up invocations. But I feel like there must be an angle I'm missing here.

The other question I have about Dith is how it changes play with non-stabbers. Is a stealth ice conjurer of Dith possible? I hear he greatly increases damage output, which sounds awesome, but I mostly play fire conjurers, which he forbids.

Granted I never got far, but Ogres seem to benefit from Dith. Nothing like your shadow also using a large rock or GSC. And the umbra is like free EV.

[Hirsch I]

imagine a giant ogre teleporting to a monster's shadow and hitting it with a giant spiked club, while his shadow tangibly does the same.
scary. and badass.

[Lasty]

One question I have: It seems like the shadow step ability doesn't work like passwall -- your target can wake up just as you step to them. Is that the case? it makes the ability really dangerous, because the creatures which pose threats are usually the ones you don't want to end up next to awake as a spriggan.

You are correct. Full-LOS instant stabbing of anything that didn't wake up the second you stepped into view would be OP. Full-LOS stabbing of anything that didn't wake up during the first two turns you stepped into view is still very, very good. You just need to have an escape plan for when things go wrong.

The other question I have about Dith is how it changes play with non-stabbers. Is a stealth ice conjurer of Dith possible? I hear he greatly increases damage output, which sounds awesome, but I mostly play fire conjurers, which he forbids.

Dith is very good for conjurer-types. I suspect it's also very good for ranged combat, but I haven't tried. It supports high base damage melee much more than low base damage melee.

[nilsbloodaxe]

One question I have: It seems like the shadow step ability doesn't work like passwall -- your target can wake up just as you step to them. Is that the case? it makes the ability really dangerous, because the creatures which pose threats are usually the ones you don't want to end up next to awake as a spriggan.

You are correct. Full-LOS instant stabbing of anything that didn't wake up the second you stepped into view would be OP. Full-LOS stabbing of anything that didn't wake up during the first two turns you stepped into view is still very, very good. You just need to have an escape plan for when things go wrong.

The other question I have about Dith is how it changes play with non-stabbers. Is a stealth ice conjurer of Dith possible? I hear he greatly increases damage output, which sounds awesome, but I mostly play fire conjurers, which he forbids.

Dith is very good for conjurer-types. I suspect it's also very good for ranged combat, but I haven't tried. It supports high base damage melee much more than low base damage melee.

Dith + ranged(maybe not slings) = awesome. I have a KoAs^Dith that throws tomahawks and shadow mimic does wonders. If it is that good with tomahawks, I can just imagine how good javelins, much less rocks, would be.

[tedric]

Is a stealth ice conjurer of Dith possible? I hear he greatly increases damage output, which sounds awesome, but I mostly play fire conjurers, which he forbids.

Yes.

[SchwaWarrior]

Dith is pretty okay. I killed some nasty uniques using Shadow Form and my Wands and Rods (which still function at full power) with like 15.0+ Evocations because I was playing a "gadgeteer" with stabbing capability.

I never even knew that Shadow Mimic ability existed until quite later on, after I'd used him a few times already. I guess that'd be the most useful thing about that god, huh? Heheh.

[kenmtraveller]

Wow, started a Dith ice conjurer last night... his mimic ability is huge for conjurers. I would definitely put him up there with vehumet and sif muna for good conjuration choices. He doesn't provide a way to get back MP, but his extra damage means you use less MP killing the monster. And his passive abilities enhance survivability for squishy types.

[Patashu]

Wow, started a Dith ice conjurer last night... his mimic ability is huge for conjurers. I would definitely put him up there with vehumet and sif muna for good conjuration choices. He doesn't provide a way to get back MP, but his extra damage means you use less MP killing the monster. And his passive abilities enhance survivability for squishy types.

So basically everyone is using dith wrong?

[SchwaWarrior]

So basically everyone is using dith wrong?

Possibly. I got the feeling right away from even using him a short time that he's not "the stealth/stabber god", but rather an all-around god with benefits that revolve strongest around EV-based characters as opposed to AC-based ones. Just like, both melee guys and casters can get great use out of The Shining One, though for different reasons. Same here with Dith.

One thing's for sure, me with all my Elves raring to go, Dith ought to be a treat for me in the coming days. ^^ I've still stuck with Veh or Ash out of habit but I ought to give this new one a try some more.