The Tavern

So, could we either figure out a way to fix LO or just remove them from the game already? I feel like lots of ideas have been proposed, even outright replacements, but given that the status quo didn't make it into 0.14, what needs to be changed to get it into the next stable release, and who will step up to change it?

e: Just to be clear, I'm in favor of outright removal and starting from scratch instead of trying to rescue LO.

It doesn't seem like basing the species around tension can possibly work, and with the changes that have already happened, the temperature change stuff has become much less interesting anyway. A hybrid type race with fire/earth and armour aptitudes, and decent HP is worth having, but I don't think LO are going to work.

Part of the problem, I believe, was that the developer who worked on Lava Orcs left, and no one wants to touch them.

I make the above statement with the intent that its existence will force someone to come out of the woodwork to correct it.

I agree, though regular hill orcs are already fairly close to the species you describe. So you would need some kind of distinguishing feature, I think. The temperature mechanic seemed promising, but (though I didn't play every version of LO) it seems it was difficult to make it work well.

Sounds a lot like forge dwarves. Maybe it's time they made a comeback?

What if temperature was straightforwardly based on HP%, instead of tension and time? It's weird and not-good that it currently goes up constantly the longer you're in any monster's sight. I'm imagining it as being fixed to HP; e.g. 50% HP always meaning 50% temp.

Problematic in that if you only got the heat aura when heavily damaged, nobody would use it because a bit of passive damage doesn't make up for being nearly dead, but if you had the heat aura at full health you could play "Kite the monsters" very effectively. And you wouldn't be able to read strategic scrolls at full health.

So there would need to be more changes besides linking it to HP.

Perhaps an (a)bility that let you shut off the heat aura?

What made them interesting (perhaps only to me) was when they had a swiftness/slow effect on Heat aura (albeit OP).
Without it they are just Fire casting Orcs. I wouldn´t mind seing it return but as a counter give them Naga speed as their default speed and preventing them from moving when hibernating.

If the idea is for them to be more of a hybrid (i.e. Ftr/FE) i think their stat increase should at least yield an equal chance of gaining Str or Int and a bit more variation on skills like
Fig +1, Dgd -1, SpC -2, Cnj +1, Nec +1

Some way to differ Beogh LO´s from Beogh HO would perhaps make them more interesting, like HO could level (or make) melee orc followers more efficient and vice versa.
If LO´s of Beogh then could benefit somehow from their aura would be neat. An example would be giving adjacent followers the Fire Damage Shield and an increase in rF when the LO is heated as well as a decrease in rC when he´s in his “hibernate” state.

The transmuting focus seems odd since there’s so few TrM spells a Lava Orc can benefit from (until higher levels).
If the Transmuting is a given on LOs, maybe introduce a Fire Transmute spell, kinda like an opposite to Ice Form? I know that´s supposedly Dragon Form but that´s a lvl 9 spell. A lvl 2-5 "LavaForm" spell could be interesting to many TrM´s and give Lava Orc´s (and Djinni´s if they ever make it back) an added boost.

//Hey maybe a LO in "Lava Form" could turn into a Djinni haha…

I was never a fan of Lava Orcs from the onset. Their swingy nature seems awkward and clunky, and I doubt it'll be able to strike a balance that is controllable enough to feel good to the player, and yet not easily abused. If you want to make a race that gets better at low health/extended combat that is one thing. There's risk/reward going into that, etc. But tying it to this random heat system with situational effects(including a minor passive damage aura, and the inability to use scrolls) just...doesn't work.

The heat aura isn't exactly minor passive damage, at least through lair. It's a significant damage boost, which is also somewhat problematic.

What if the heat aura were dropped, and instead the forms were choosable from rock form/magma form/lava form, corresponding to the current heat levels, but with some modifications.
Since the forms are choosable, rock form could have the built in stoneskin, but get back the old movement delay penalty. It would also get an earth magic enhancer?(Maybe?)
Magma form would be the sort of default, no ac boost, no movement penalty, no fire resist, no enhancers.
Lava form would be like high temp now, meaning you get a fire enhancer, RF+, RC-, no scrolls, and you damage attackers (But no heat aura)

This way you ditch the tension thing, which just doesn't work, and give the player control over the lava orc's form. Lava form would need to be a little better than what I"ve put here, but I can't really think of anything that makes sense, and the old movement speed bonus was too good.

RIP in piece.

RIP in pizza

"Mmm... That's the fabled lava orc pizza!"

NOPE'd

gud 1 NOPE

I'll plant a red fern for ya, LO, and then I guess set it on fire. It's what they would've wanted.

i am [getting someone else to start] programming lava sauce orcs into the pizza tornado branch

Hill Orcs WITH FIRE

I'd rather see a species whose skill aptitudes don't overlap with their innate abilities and thus produce reduced value. Most Draconians get a breath weapon that is redundant with their magical aptitude, yay?

A Hill Orc but FIRE is... a Hill Orc. Fire Magic is their best magical aptitude as is.

HOFEs rule!

Ok, so no Lava Orcs as player species. How about Lava Orcs as enemies? Kill them fast before they light up! They could reside in the Volcano. Beoghites can recruit them, but they do not play well with others who do not resist fire.

Okay, but where would they show up other than the Volcano and fire vaults? I dunno if it's worth introducing a new kind of enemy that will only show up in a few, rare areas.

Orc mines probably.
And it''s not like toenail golems are any more common.

LO have been removed, but the thread lives on...

In CYC.

And as a result I will say "Boo" to those who removed it. Most fun race of the bunch imho. Perhaps lacking in elegance and balance but it was a blast playing LOs of all backgrounds. I guess it is for the best since too much fun would be a bad thing to have in a stable build...

I too love walking away from enemies.

#QueueTheMagmaDwarvesProposals