Zin is a Hypocrit

[bcadren]

Evidence:

• Zin hates Chaotic effects; but Recite is the most random effect in the game.
• Furthermore Recite's effects mirror the abilities of a Great Orb of Eyes and the Effects of Hell. (Chaotic Monster and Evil Place).
• Zin hates the undead.
• Zin's Vitalization provides most the bonuses of being undead. (no rTorm, but otherwise).

I'm sure you could claim the same of the other good gods in different ways, but I'm just saying.

[File200]

Zin is awfully greedy for a "Good God."

[Confidence Interval]

You make a weak case. You do not differentiate between intentions and outcomes. For example, compare giving someone money because they have none and you want to help them with giving someone money because you want to them to be in your debt. We might regard one of these things as charitable and "good" and the other as self-serving and "bad" but the action is the same: the person receives some money. In saying that what Zin does is similar to what evil entities do you are failing to differentiate intentions from outcomes in an analogous manner.

I think that rebuttal covers three of the four points you make. The final one, that Zin dislikes undead, seems neither here nor there.

[stickyfingers]

Zin is awfully greedy for a "Good God."

Greed is good.

[duvessa]

found the american

[Knight9910]

found the american

No, you found the greedy person. Most Americans would vehemently disagree with the statement that "greed is good."

Just... you know... our government and corporations... >_>

* * * * *

On topic, though...

Zin doesn't really work. You need to work on your definitions. "Chaotic" is not the same thing as "random" or "unreliable." It's not the idea of randomness that Zin hates. What Zin hates is corruption and disorder.

Elyvilon also doesn't really work.

The Shining One, on the other hand, is the KING of the hypocrites.

If an enemy tries to flee you have to let them! No fair killing enemies who aren't fighting! ...or you can chase them into a corner and splatter them the second they turn and try to defend themselves. That's totally cool.

Poison is unfair and unchivalrous and must never be used! But it's totally fine if you want to set them on fire. Or cut off their arms and legs and laugh at them flopping around on the ground like a fish. Or any number of other things.

Oh, and if your enemy is a wizard or a demon? All bets are @#%$ing off! Poison them! Go invisible and taunt them while you cut them up! Murder their babies in their sleep! Rip off their fingernails and cut off their eyelids! MWAHAHAHA!

...so yeah, TSO is a dick.

[Magipi]

Oh, and if your enemy is a wizard or a demon? All bets are @#%$ing off!

A wizard?
Aren't you confusing TSO and Trog?

[stickyfingers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Gekko

[Knight9910]

Oh, and if your enemy is a wizard or a demon? All bets are @#%$ing off!

A wizard?
Aren't you confusing TSO and Trog?

Nope. Most spellcasters are tagged as evil and therefore free game for paladins to do whatever they want with.

[Klown]

Zin is awfully greedy for a "Good God."

10% is cheaper than my income tax.

[Knight9910]

Zin is awfully greedy for a "Good God."

10% is cheaper than my income tax.

It's also a reference to the Catholic Church.

[dck]

The most chaotic effect in the game is chained chaos.
Recite does not share any traits with either of those things. Its effects are outright different in most cases and for the few that are similar, Zin's don't wear off.
Zin's vitalisation strengthens the invoker's atributes and defends him from the ways of hell.

Apostates 9.55 - And Zin said to all in attendance, 'Which of ye number among the unbelievers? Come before me, that I may purify you now for your doubt!'

[tompliss]

This thread lacks a "Good is not Nice" trope link ...

[Viashino_wizard]

This thread lacks a "Good is not Nice" trope link ...

Common decency dictates anyone linking to tvtropes should be lynched.

[Patashu]

This thread lacks a "Good is not Nice" trope link ...

Common decency dictates anyone linking to tvtropes should be lynched.

Hmmm, isn't that a trope of some kind?

[dck]

that's not gonna stop the lynchin' though

[netkitten]

Elyvilon also doesn't really work.

ely really reminds me enchantress from dota, a cute and cheerful half-deer girl who enchants monsters and makes them kill their friends and families (she can heal too), it's basically what ely does, you pacify some orc warlord and he betrays his people and even turns on them and then either he or his former friends get killed while you and ely are gladly watching the carnage

[Knight9910]

Elyvilon also doesn't really work.

ely really reminds me enchantress from dota, a cute and cheerful half-deer girl who enchants monsters and makes them kill their friends and families (she can heal too), it's basically what ely does, you pacify some orc warlord and he betrays his people and even turns on them and then either he or his former friends get killed while you and ely are gladly watching the carnage

That's... not really true at all. Pacified monsters don't ally with you or betray their friends or anything like that. They turn neutral, head to the nearest upstair, and despawn. You could argue that a pacified warlord is betraying his people by abandoning them, but I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that pacified monsters go into deathmatches with their former friends.

EDIT: I'm also not sure where you're getting that belief about Aiustha the Enchantress. Granted I've never actually played DotA, but nothing I've looked at suggests anything like that about her. Are you just pulling things out of your ass because you want good to be evil or something?

[bcadren]

That's... not really true at all. Pacified monsters don't ally with you or betray their friends or anything like that. They turn neutral, head to the nearest upstair, and despawn. You could argue that a pacified warlord is betraying his people by abandoning them, but I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that pacified monsters go into deathmatches with their former friends.

De Facto that winds up happening. Neutral creatures from Elyvilon are just as deadly as Neutral creatures from Corrupt. They retaliate at anything in their way (read attack by trying to walk through); if you went true pacifist healer (no kills, ever) you have to rely on this for food.

[Knight9910]

I think the real issue is that there's nothing in place to prevent you from abusing the systems the good gods set up. Like my example of The Shining One telling you that you can't attack a fleeing enemy, but allowing you to chase them down and kill them after backing them into a corner. (Admittedly this is less of an issue now that enemies have become more likely to fight to the death.)

If TSO were real I doubt that he would condone that sort of behavior, but in the game his behavior is dependent on the game's limitations. Setting up a system to disallow that behavior would be way too complicated to be worth it.

So, unfortunately, it makes TSO look like a huge hypocrite.

As for Elyvilon, I think the issue here is less you turning the enemy against his former allies, and more like his former allies trying to punish him for desertion. The fact that you can take advantage of that is more a limitation of the game rather than a statement of Ely's support for assholery.

EDIT: Also, if what I heard about 0.15 disallow-ing the eating of monster chunks for non-carnivores is true, then you won't have to do that anymore anyway.