Arachnetaur race

[bcadren]

Developed it out a bit... A race of half-spiders like Arachne.

The lower half of your body is a giant spider. (Your head/face and arms are human).
You are small (Halfling-size) [Normal armour/gloves, but EV boost.]

Weirdness and Abilities:

• Web Sense - You can identify a monster when it hits a webtrap anywhere on the map. You auto-map all webtraps on entering a floor. Also, you SInv enemies caught in webtraps.
• Web Generation - You may automatically create web traps behind you. You toggle this on and off with an (a)bility. While on, you get a +5 to your metabolic rate (faster than fast metabolism, slower than trolls) and your speed drops to Slow II (takes time to make webs). Turns itself off at Very Hungry to prevent starving yourself (flavoured as 'your hunger makes you too weak to continue producing webs). While on, the effect is very frequent (1/6 chance of making a web per step.) Webs are permanents.
• Spider Legs - You are immune to webtraps and have +5AC and Stealth+, but can't wear boots.
• Clinging - You can cling to walls.
• Fangs 1. Venomous. (Poison Auxiliary attack.)
• Fast 1.
• Natural poison Spellpower enchancer gained at levels 13 and 26.
• Ensnare - You may create a webtrap immediately (both a normal trap and immediately springing on an enemy (similar to throwing a throwing net)). Range of 1. Never directly misses (doesn't check EV), but odds of ensnaring a large enemy or a flying enemy get higher with level and throwing skill. This ability can drown enemies if aimed over high water. [This is a 'breath' ability with a medium hunger cost and similar countdown timer.]
• Misshapen Body - Armor gives 1/2 normal AC.

Apts:

  Code:

At: Fighting: -2, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: 3, Bows: 2, Xbows: 3!, Throw: 1, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: -3, Conj: -1,  Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 3, Tmut: 1, Fire: -1, Ice: -1, Air: -2, Earth: -1, Poison: 4!, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0

Although their stats make them a great choice for Assassins and the like; I left the weapon apts flat to not pidgeonhole them into using ONLY shortblades. They are as good at stealth and dodging as Spriggans, great at Slings, xBows, Translocations and Poison magic. Slightly below average at most everything else.
Stats:
[Starts]
STR 5
INT 8
DEX 14
Gains 1 Extra Dex every 3rd level.

Wrote this because I think Player Websense, Ensnare and web traps could be really cool and probably belong as a race or god if they exist and Spider God was such a failure that...I didn't want to try to start something from scratch (and risk it being too similar). It also permanently has most the bonuses and a few of the weaknesses of spider form (similar to gargoyles and statue). Also it's an extreme Dex race. (what Trolls are with STR and Deep Elves are with INT). Start stat total is the same as Deep Elves.

[Bloax]

I was thinking more of a combination of these guys and minotaurs, so they'd be arachnotaurs - because arachnotrons are so 1994.

[Sar]

fr: plasma guns

@bcarden: you might want to look up why Formicids rPois- was removed (spoiler: it was awful and unfun).

[Hirsch I]

well, as the race will have human torso, it will have human lungs and livers too, so no reason to give rPois-

[Curio]

Ninja pirate robot zombie approves this!

[twelwe]

ninja pirate robot zombie plant crab does not aprove of anything really, because it is stupid

[bcadren]

As long as we are on this tangent; did you know that robot space pirate ninjas are enemies in Rayman 2: the Great Escape?

Link to the introduction of the Ninja version's cutscene.

[Viashino_wizard]

Web Sense: this is basically useless outside Spider unless certain vaults spawn. The ability to automatically see web traps would probably work, maybe the ability to sense invisible enemies caught in webs or something.

Web Generation: This is both very powerful and not that interesting to use, because you have little control over where your web traps end up. Making this an active ability would be better.

Spider Legs: Spider enemies and spiderform players can't walk over traps, so this doesn't really make sense. Immunity to web traps is good enough by itself.

Clinging: No problems with this.

Exoskeleton: the problem with rPois- has already been brought up.

Ensnare: Interesting idea, core to the concept.

Misshapen Body: Par for the course with centaurian races, no problems.

Carnivore III: Sure, why not.

[Ajonos]

Web Sense: this is basically useless outside Spider unless certain vaults spawn. The ability to automatically see web traps would probably work, maybe the ability to sense invisible enemies caught in webs or something.

Web Generation: This is both very powerful and not that interesting to use, because you have little control over where your web traps end up. Making this an active ability would be better.

I actually like it, the first is not useless at all, in combination with the second ability, it means that if enemies go anywhere you've been, you'd know immediately.

Also, the ability to quickly and easily set up a webbed room and lure enemies into it is flavorful and interesting imo. Turning it into an active would make it tedious to do that imo.

Spider Legs: Spider enemies and spiderform players can't walk over traps, so this doesn't really make sense. Immunity to web traps is good enough by itself.

But yeah, I agree with you on this one.

[Hirsch I]

Also, the ability to quickly and easily set up a webbed room and lure enemies into it is flavorful and interesting imo. Turning it into an active would make it tedious to do that imo..

this would make optimal to set a web room in every level, and lead every monster to ir. like Fo digging. or traps.
people strongly dislike this.

[TeshiAlair]

1. What about web ensnare at point blank range, akin to the web breath thread.
2. Mandatory: can wear 4x boots

[TehDruid]

Millipede: Can wear 500,000 pairs of boots.

[bcadren]

Millipede: Can wear 500,000 pairs of boots.

LOL! No...but no armor + multiple boots would be interesting. Though just an alternate to what Octopodes, though (mostly) weaker.

[TehDruid]

Millipede: Can wear 500,000 pairs of boots.

LOL! No...but no armor + multiple boots would be interesting. Though just an alternate to what Octopodes, though (mostly) weaker.

Oh man they need to make a unique felid wearing boots of speed. And wielding a vorpal sabre.

[bcadren]

Bump: Updated the actual race proposal at the top.

Decided to leave the rPois in as the race's Achilles Hell as they are otherwise one of the strongest races...

[somesortofthing]

That sound like a really good race for an En, if highly overpowered.

[bcadren]

Updated again. Might move to GDD if no one else says anything productive over here... o_o;

[DracheReborn]

Updated again. Might move to GDD if no one else says anything productive over here... o_o;

You make it sound like a threat

Although their stats make them a great choice for Assassins and the like; I left the weapon apts flat to not pidgeonhole them into using ONLY shortblades.

I had to laugh at this. This guy gets infinite webs; the SB apt could be -5, and I'd still choose to stab with this guy.

Anyway, I don't think infinite webs can work, whether as a passive or active racial ability. I'm imagining this spider dude walking up and down a corridor until it's full of webs, then drawing enemies there to be killed. Repeat ad nauseam for every floor. Edit: I just noticed that other people have brought this up, but hasn't been addressed.

Web sense won't make a great player ability, IMO. I think the only way to make it useful is to spam webs all over the place, on the off chance that some enemy is going to come by that way. And clinging might get removed soon.

[File200]

I would approve of "Web Breath" as a racial ability that acts as a powered-up throwing net and costs food, health and of course breath. Power can increase with XL.

I definitely do NOT approve of passive web generation, or web trap generation of any kind. Far too scummy.

[NessOnett]

How does having a giant spider body help you be super stealthy? Usually it just makes you cause a fiery racket.

[bcadren]

Let me address the concern about the passive generation then.

The original concept was it could create a trap or throw a web on command (Food, Breath).

I added the auto-place to make it so optimal play didn't include constantly stopping to make webs too often.

The combo of auto-placed webs and websense lets the player know if monsters are in any area they have explored before. Ideally; this does make backtracking more appealing. In over your head and need to run? By going back the way you came, there's a good chance monsters will get caught in your webs.

Note that insubstantials (ghosts and the like) and other spiders are immune to this.

I do think players will backtrack a bit more with this race and it is intended that that would be more optimal than normal. BUT you'd be backtracking a short distance to where you have a webtrap to walk through (catching the following party); not taking them all the way back to room full of webs. EVEN if that is a possibility; I don't think people would choose to kite things that far. It's already possible to set up a room full of webs with sacks of spiders and those traps are permanents. Similarly, you can lead enemies back to an Oklob farm if you of Fedhas and neither of those are thought of as too major of 'temptations to drag things a long distance'.

If we are concerned about removing that possibility I can add Fast Metabolism (with Carn III makes permafood very rare even if chunks are plentiful, making long waits to set up such rooms less appealing (though using a Sack of Spiders at High Evo would still work))...or make the webs wither over time; say after 5000 aut?

[dck]

Similarly, you can lead enemies back to an Oklob farm if you of Fedhas and neither of those are thought of as too major of 'temptations to drag things a long distance'.

ha have you ever seen one of these hippies do zot: $

[DracheReborn]

It's already possible to set up a room full of webs with sacks of spiders and those traps are permanents. Similarly, you can lead enemies back to an Oklob farm if you of Fedhas and neither of those are thought of as too major of 'temptations to drag things a long distance'.

The point though is that both sack of spiders and Fedhas fruit are finite. Your proposed species gets infinite webs. You'll have to assign a strategic cost (like maxHP) to make them comparable.

[TehDruid]

Since these guys are not spiders but have a human torso and head, why would they be carnivore 3? Carnivore 3 with +4 poison apt and ability to shoot webs for hunger+breath only is very OP, imo. The web spit should have a much higher cost so that you have to think whether it's worth it or not, assuming you're going to keep carnivore 3. And I don't really get why being half-spider should give you a +4 to poison magic, but I digress.

Give them Centaur speed to promote the playstyle of abusing poison and kiting, as you'd expect from spiderkin. Remove Carnivore 3, web sense (unless you can create web traps in a meaningful way to synergize), automatic web generation and rPois-. Change spider legs to give and AC bonus, on top of the existing bonus/penalty you mentioned (perhaps scaling with XL so that it's not too OP early on). After all you don't have an exoskeleton covering your upper body. It's human shaped. And I don't think there's going to be a barding for "arachnetaurs".

Imo they should have 0 MP instead of +1. Also that starting STR is abyssmal, you're not a spider, you're half human, you should have more STR. Something like 6 STR 8 INT 11 DEX would work better, I think. At least assuming they do have a high intelligence. You could make them more beast-like with lower than average intellect but a natural talent in poison magic (+4 poison and a poison enhancer on lvl 13 - and maybe a second enhancer like Mummies?).

[Tiktacy]

Was this originally posted in yuif? Because this is too nice of a proposal to be moved from GDD. If it was, it should be moved back.

It's honestly a much more fun sounding idea than Dwants, and the idea as really unique and has potential. The ability to ensnare enemies with an interesting tactical cost sounds cool, and flattening out some of the aptitudes might help to make it more interesting.

[bcadren]

Since these guys are not spiders but have a human torso and head, why would they be carnivore 3? Carnivore 3 with +4 poison apt and ability to shoot webs for hunger+breath only is very OP, imo. The web spit should have a much higher cost so that you have to think whether it's worth it or not, assuming you're going to keep carnivore 3. And I don't really get why being half-spider should give you a +4 to poison magic, but I digress.

Give them Centaur speed to promote the playstyle of abusing poison and kiting, as you'd expect from spiderkin. Remove Carnivore 3, web sense (unless you can create web traps in a meaningful way to synergize), automatic web generation and rPois-. Change spider legs to give and AC bonus, on top of the existing bonus/penalty you mentioned (perhaps scaling with XL so that it's not too OP early on). After all you don't have an exoskeleton covering your upper body. It's human shaped. And I don't think there's going to be a barding for "arachnetaurs".

Imo they should have 0 MP instead of +1. Also that starting STR is abyssmal, you're not a spider, you're half human, you should have more STR. Something like 6 STR 8 INT 11 DEX would work better, I think. At least assuming they do have a high intelligence. You could make them more beast-like with lower than average intellect but a natural talent in poison magic (+4 poison and a poison enhancer on lvl 13 - and maybe a second enhancer like Mummies?).

Since this made a lot of sense to me; I edited for you.

• Carnivore III is removed.
• I expanded on how Web spit works. [Range of 1. Never directly misses (doesn't check EV), but odds of ensnaring a large enemy or a flying enemy get higher with level and throwing skill. This ability can drown enemies if aimed at those flying over high water.]
• Centaur Speed returned (I put it in, removed it; then put it back in. I'm flipfloppy on this one, because I don't want them to be too broken or play too similarly to Spriggans or Centaurs.)
• Automatic Web Generation is now toggleable with considerable hunger (and Speed) cost.
• rPois- is gone; because everyone says it. I think a notable weakness would suit the race (maybe rF- is better); but everyone suggests this and besides, having it could lead to easily starving to death in Swamp, Spider (anywhere with most Poison chunks) and pidgeonholing your god choice to Ely for Revitalization (or start choice to VM for Cure Poison).
• Web sense is still there; as I think we can get strategic use from it. IF NOT though, I'll reduce it to just the SInv effect rather than remove completely.
• I'm not sure about the innate AC scaling with level; I had it as +3 (Start); +7 (Level 8); +12 (Level 16) at one point. Switched it back to just +5 for now. I moved it to being part of the legs instead of the 'exoskeleton' trait. But, yes that's the idea behind having it. There won't be a spider barding, so the exoskeleton trait makes up for it some.
• I set the STR to Deep Elf/Halfling levels. Average INT and High Dex (still same total as Deep Elves).
• I went ahead and put the Poison enhancers by level too. Not sure if I like (No one is going to get use out of the second one, in particular hah).
• And Sure, MP 0. They aren't magic affine.

Was this originally posted in yuif? Because this is too nice of a proposal to be moved from GDD. If it was, it should be moved back.
It's honestly a much more fun sounding idea than Dwants, and the idea as really unique and has potential. The ability to ensnare enemies with an interesting tactical cost sounds cool, and flattening out some of the aptitudes might help to make it more interesting.

Thanks. I'm certainly for it being moved and yea; it was originally posted here AND a lot rougher when originally posted (hence all the early joke posts.) Original post was just all 'race with Clinging, Ensnare and Web Sense.

[TehDruid]

@ Bcadren: I don't agree with all the ideas you propose (like the Trog one) and I don't consider myself a good player by any means, but I'll give you my two cents anyway. After all this is CYC. I don't visit GDD at all nowadays, tbh, neither to propose nor to discuss. I've had my fair share of (admittedly bad) ideas shot down when I was more of a newbie at the game and I stopped trying to come up with stuff for about 2 years now. It's not like most ideas in the Tavern are taken seriously anyway, even very well-thought out proposals (yes, there ARE exceptions to this "rule"). If somebody codes a new race or feature though, it will most probably be available to test in an experimental branch and if it's good it can get on the master branch and maybe even make it to stable. Djinns had been in trunk for a good while but they didn't make it to stable, for example. If you can code your idea, it is very likely to get tested and perhaps make it. I'm no programmer, so I can only offer some ideas here and there. And there's no room for "idea guys" in game development, so maybe you should start learning how to actually code your ideas into the game (I don't know if you're capable of this already or have the time to work on something actually) and see whether they're truly fun and add depth to Crawl, before you propose that they be included in the main game. Just saying.

[bcadren]

@ Bcadren: I don't agree with all the ideas you propose (like the Trog one) and I don't consider myself a good player by any means, but I'll give you my two cents anyway. After all this is CYC. I don't visit GDD at all nowadays, tbh, neither to propose nor to discuss. I've had my fair share of (admittedly bad) ideas shot down when I was more of a newbie at the game and I stopped trying to come up with stuff for about 2 years now. It's not like most ideas in the Tavern are taken seriously anyway, even very well-thought out proposals (yes, there ARE exceptions to this "rule"). If somebody codes a new race or feature though, it will most probably be available to test in an experimental branch and if it's good it can get on the master branch and maybe even make it to stable. Djinns had been in trunk for a good while but they didn't make it to stable, for example. If you can code your idea, it is very likely to get tested and perhaps make it. I'm no programmer, so I can only offer some ideas here and there. And there's no room for "idea guys" in game development, so maybe you should start learning how to actually code your ideas into the game (I don't know if you're capable of this already or have the time to work on something actually) and see whether they're truly fun and add depth to Crawl, before you propose that they be included in the main game. Just saying.

I actually have a game design degree and probably could; though I should be working on my own stuff. Though, actually you are wrong. In big game (large corporations) there are a lot of people that are mostly just 'idea people'; it's what the 'designer' title is actually about. I'm more capable as a full dev than most of those people; but...it's still the title on the degree... Honestly though, this is procrastination for me. I -can- code everything I say but that would be work on something that I don't need to be working on, when there are more important things (that can actually draw profit) to be done.

[Hopeless]

@ Bcadren: I don't agree with all the ideas you propose (like the Trog one) and I don't consider myself a good player by any means, but I'll give you my two cents anyway. After all this is CYC. I don't visit GDD at all nowadays, tbh, neither to propose nor to discuss. I've had my fair share of (admittedly bad) ideas shot down when I was more of a newbie at the game and I stopped trying to come up with stuff for about 2 years now. It's not like most ideas in the Tavern are taken seriously anyway, even very well-thought out proposals (yes, there ARE exceptions to this "rule"). If somebody codes a new race or feature though, it will most probably be available to test in an experimental branch and if it's good it can get on the master branch and maybe even make it to stable. Djinns had been in trunk for a good while but they didn't make it to stable, for example. If you can code your idea, it is very likely to get tested and perhaps make it. I'm no programmer, so I can only offer some ideas here and there. And there's no room for "idea guys" in game development, so maybe you should start learning how to actually code your ideas into the game (I don't know if you're capable of this already or have the time to work on something actually) and see whether they're truly fun and add depth to Crawl, before you propose that they be included in the main game. Just saying.

I actually have a game design degree and probably could; though I should be working on my own stuff. Though, actually you are wrong. In big game (large corporations) there are a lot of people that are mostly just 'idea people'; it's what the 'designer' title is actually about. I'm more capable as a full dev than most of those people; but...it's still the title on the degree... Honestly though, this is procrastination for me. I -can- code everything I say but that would be work on something that I don't need to be working on, when there are more important things (that can actually draw profit) to be done.

Im pretty sure he was specifically referring to Crawl dev. Not dev in general...

[TehDruid]

@ Bcadren: All I'm saying is that if you want to see one of your ideas implemented, you should do most (all?) of the work yourself. If you don't care about that and just want to throw ideas around in the hopes that some dev with free time in their hands will be inspired by them and actually code them or something similar, I don't have a problem with that, of course.

@ Hopeless: I was thinking more in the lines of indie game studios. Sorry if that confused anyone.