Shouldn't Crawl has an active magic god?

[jjormang]

Vehumet, Sif and Kiku are three magic gods in Crawl, and all three of them are passive - just buffing your magic, returning your MP and gifting some spells.

I just finished my 15-rune game with GaWz of Vehumet, and I almost fell asleep while clearing pan and hell. Sadly, worshiping Veh was as much boring as worshing sif, and I believe beliving Kiku will be the same. So I suggest, How about making a more active version of magic god who can guarantee Fehdas or Nemelex-level fun?

Now, let's brainstorm a little bit. There are some threads about 'spell steal' which is a very cool idea. How about countermagic? or how about controlling magical contamination?
Any idea would be fine, but I really not hope to see any more passive magic gods in future version.

[and into]

Does Fedhas or Nemelex punish spellcasting in Trunk? I thought that was only Trog's thing.

Sif has two active abilities, one of which is extremely powerful (the other is admittedly more of a convenience / insurance policy). Kiku also has two active abilities, one of which is very strong in combination with the Necromancy spells that he gifts, the other of which tends to be more situational but is particularly good with Gargoyles.

I almost fell asleep while clearing pan and hell.

I hear ya, man. But I don't think this has anything to do with gods.

[jjormang]

About Fed and Nem, It's not about spellcasting but the level of fun they're providing while believing them. I guess I might described it wrong.

I have never played with Kiku past 3-runer, and also never believed him with a pure mage. I might underestimated his fun-level then. Also, I'm not complaining about Sif and Kiku's ability - actually I think Kiku belongs in tier 1.

[and into]

Fair enough—I definitely think there is room in Crawl for another god that supports magic, but primarily (if not entirely) through active abilities.

I've moved this to CYC though, because Game Design Discussion is generally reserved for more fleshed out proposals. If something concrete comes out of this thread it can be reposted.

So: Any ideas for an (active) ability-centered god?

[TeshiAlair]

The main issue with this concept is that, essentially, spells ARE abilities in Crawl. Gods with actives tend to provide spell like effects (Brothers in arms and Makhleb demons are summons, Makhleb blasts are conjurations, Oka and Trog both have semi-charms, Dith and Chei have translocation-esque abilities). The question is, what kind of ability would be satisfying to activate that wouldn't be better served as a spell, and be more interesting than the magic version of Oka's actives, and also wouldn't be incredibly complex (like my suggestion for spell blending or multicasting).

The only thing that comes to mind would be a "spell berserk": Essentially haste but only for spells, plus double MP, but afterwards you have silence, or something along those lines.

[jjormang]

I understand what you're trying to describe. Right, most god's abilities are another version of exisiting spells. However, a god helps its followers with unique techniques to use magic - such as delay spells, soundless castings, etc. couldn't be hurt.

Spell berserk seems cool. How about adding archmagi bonus during 'berserk' and -wiz+-archmagi after berserk as side effect?

[DracheReborn]

The main issue with this concept is that, essentially, spells ARE abilities in Crawl. Gods with actives tend to provide spell like effects (Brothers in arms and Makhleb demons are summons, Makhleb blasts are conjurations, Oka and Trog both have semi-charms, Dith and Chei have translocation-esque abilities). The question is, what kind of ability would be satisfying to activate that wouldn't be better served as a spell, and be more interesting than the magic version of Oka's actives, and also wouldn't be incredibly complex (like my suggestion for spell blending or multicasting).

The only thing that comes to mind would be a "spell berserk": Essentially haste but only for spells, plus double MP, but afterwards you have silence, or something along those lines.

Good post. and_into's posts in the old sif thread had a lot of ideas for active abilities. I was proposing something like "Finesse for spells" (casting time reduced in half), but your "spell berserk" idea seems more interesting.

[dpeg]

As usual, I'd suggest to think much broader than "spellcaster god with many active abilities" -- especially at the beginning of the design process. (It will inevitably get more narrow later on.) Bonus points if you can come up with some theme that's encompassing casting but without explicitly mentioning it. (A bit like Fedhas was intented as a god of ranged attacks, without ever being explitic about that.)

The ill-fated Djinn mechanic is perhaps suitable on a god?

Also, TeshiAlairs makes a really good point about casting-centric deities and abilities.

[tasonir]

I think it's fairly easy to brainstorm active caster abilities. Of course, no one would ever use my ideas, but hey!

In no particular order, some are more powerful than others, etc etc.

Spell Berserk: +archmagi, +wizardry, +5int, haste. Lasts ~15 turns if you are casting, takes ~3-5 turns off for any turn you don't cast. After it wears off, exhaustion, -wiz, -archmagi, slow. Possible silence effect if that's preferred. Probably overkill with the slow already on there - silence could be used instead of slow, but then this is very powerful for hybrids who have decent melee. Depending on how you balance it with exhaustion/hunger effects, probably no piety cost. You could remove the hunger cost and have it be a small piety cost, also. "Trog doesn't like magic? I don't like Trog."

Silent Casting: For X turns, spells you cast make no noise. Let those Lightning bolts fly! Low piety cost. "I was never here."

Overload: For 1 additional mana, each spell you cast for the next X turns does 50% more damage. Hexes are more likely to land, charms last longer, etc. Could possibly include your spells being less likely to miscast. Medium to high piety cost depending on how long it lasts, and what % extra damage. "You know what's better than fire? More fire."

Absorb Magic: The next time you are hit by a conjuration, it is instead absorbed harmlessly, and restores 1d5 mana. This could probably be instant, if that isn't too strong. Medium piety cost, no mana (can therefore be used to regain mana). "Your Mana shall become part of a greater cause: mine."

Strip Magic: Scales based on your invocations vs a monster's HD; if you pass the monster is hit with a longer lasting effect equal to an anti-magic weapon. Should last 10-15 turns or so, making it unlikely they can cast. Medium piety cost. "I'll show you who the real wizard here is!"

I'm starting to get attached to the idea of an active magic god <.<

[KoboldLord]

There's really no need for a spellcaster-specific deity to have active abilities that the player is expected to regularly use. A spellcaster usually has a whole list of active abilities already, so adding one or two more on top doesn't change the play experience much. Contrast to, say, Trog, whose granted active abilities breaks up the vigorous tabbing that otherwise makes up the bulk of Trog play. Without active divine abilities, the melee build is pretty dependent on loot drops to have any reusable abilities at all.

If you really want active divine abilities on your spellcaster, why not try out Makhleb? Her invocations are basically Cast from HP Summons and Cast from HP Direct Damage, so she'll give you a direct boost to your conjuror's damage output using a resource pool that doesn't even overlap with the mp you're spending on spells. Call yourself a Blood Mage.

[diviton]

There's really no need for a spellcaster-specific deity to have active abilities that the player is expected to regularly use. A spellcaster usually has a whole list of active abilities already, so adding one or two more on top doesn't change the play experience much. Contrast to, say, Trog, whose granted active abilities breaks up the vigorous tabbing that otherwise makes up the bulk of Trog play. Without active divine abilities, the melee build is pretty dependent on loot drops to have any reusable abilities at all.

If you really want active divine abilities on your spellcaster, why not try out Makhleb? Her invocations are basically Cast from HP Summons and Cast from HP Direct Damage, so she'll give you a direct boost to your conjuror's damage output using a resource pool that doesn't even overlap with the mp you're spending on spells. Call yourself a Blood Mage.

My thoughts exactly. Being a caster already grants you a wide array of "active" options. The God you choose is whichever one will make you more effective at using said "active" options.