Tree Race

[bcadren]

Yes. I keep having thoughts. I know. Someone said on one of my previous attempts that playing as a tree could be nice. Here's my attempt at that. Because I actually do quite like the idea of a race of plant holiness.

Short version: A plant race with all the protections and weaknesses of being a plant (similar to undead without the inability to worship good gods or dispel undead weakness), which is huge and therefore unable to use smaller weapons; but use 2H weapons 1 Handed and is too large for even hats and magical armors; but makes up for it with natural AC, high HP and multiple ring slots.

• You are huge:
  • Size factor of -8 (Max; Same as Dragons) for Evasion calculations.
  • Can only use Large Shields.
  • Immune to most forms of constriction (Krakens and Eldritch tentacles being the exceptions).
  • Cannot wear any body armor.
  • You may move and attack from shallow water as normal; From deep water you may move, but stumble like a normal-sized race in shallow.
  • Cannot wield 1H melee weapons.
  • You wield 2H Melee weapons One Handed. (New junk tier 2H weapons may need to be added to make starts even across all weapon types without complicating things.)
• Your skin is very combustible: rF--
• You have a large reservoir of HP: 50% higher than human.
• Your bark is very hard: 6 AC at start; +1 AC per level. [This is more than gargoyles, but gargoyles use armor.]
• Many branches: Gain an extra ring slot every 6th level. [6 total at level 24]. (you put it on one of your tree branches).
• You start very strong: Starting stats are 12/6/6 [Troll strength]; Human (average) everything else.
• Random Stat Gain: Every 4 levels; any stat.
• You are Slow, but precise and powerful: Your actions are slowed by 25% [this is everything, not just movement delay]. You get a boost to spell success (but not power) and a passive +3,+3 Slaying to everything.
• You grow slowly: -2 XP apt.
• You do not heal naturally while mobile: Slow Healing 3.
• You are a plant:
  • rN+++
  • rTorm
  • rPois+ (cannot memorize cure Poison)
  • Cannot eat or drink normally (no potions)
  • rRot
  • Unbreathing (rDrown)
• You may ingrain your roots while you are hungry or less: Putting your roots into the ground...
  • Gives 50 nutrition per turn
  • Regen 3.
  • Generates noise when first ingraining.
  • You cannot move until Full or higher.
  • -Tele
  • Penalizes dodging even farther than normal. (same as paralysis)
  • (To limit this, either player can do a certain count per floor, before 'the soil in the region is fallow' or limit it to doing it over corpses and/or over water tiles.)

Somewhat of a joke, but image reference:

Spoiler: show

Apts:

• Fighting: 0
• Long: 1
• Axes: 1
• Maces: 1
• Polearms: 1
• Staves: 2
• Bows: 1
• xBows: 1
• Throw: 1
• Dodge: -2
• Stealth: 3
• Shields: 2
• UC: 0
• Splcast: 1
• Conj: 1
• Hexes: 1
• Charms: 1
• Summ: 1
• Nec: -1
• Tloc: -2
• Tmut: -2
• Fire: -3
• Ice: -1
• Air: -2
• Earth: 3
• Poison: -1
• Inv: 2
• Evo: 0
• Exp: -2
• HP: 5
• MP: 1

Reasons for existence: There isn't currently a huge race which I'm proposing in general should held the gimmick of being too large for any armor, but making up for it by being able to use any 2H weapon with a shield and having a lot of HP. There isn't currently a Plant race; which honestly is very similar in resistances to the undead (though lacking the rC+ pip and rMut, traded for a lack of any rot). Instead of one pip of rF- and Dispel Undead immunity; I propose plant-type character have rF--. Also they a unique feeding mechanic; which needs to be ironed out; but leads to some really interesting player decisions. You cannot heal unless you are ingrained, once you ingrain you get Regen, but cannot move; do you use this in battle or outside of it to heal? I'd also put in a mechanic based on what enemy shambling mangroves did, but it's been removed for being way too gimmicky. I would consider, also putting in some penalty to 2H weapons with shields to balance their ability to use both...if this is deemed necessary; though playtesting is needed to know if it is. I will also state that I'm unsure if plants SHOULD have rMut and the ability to self-transmute or not. And I'm not sure if their Apts need to be trashed like Trolls are or not; semi-average for now.

[Abominae]

There is a lot going on here. That is my critique of this species: it falls into the trap of trying to fit too many mechanics into one species (imo).
Let me list the things you are attempting to introduce:

1) The largest species in the game.
2) A plant species.
3) A species that cannot wear any body armour, but gets additional jewelry (This is an Octopode)
4) A species who cannot heal while monsters are in sight.
5) A species that passively or actively produces food
6) One of the most complicated activated abilities on any species
7) Another complicated ability based on passive fruit production
8) Fundamentally different attack mechanics than any other species in the game.
9) A species that has extremely little options to get rid of not one, but two pips of elemental vulnerability
10) The absolute best starting weapons ever ever in combination with great weapon apts. Scimitar/Morningstar/Broad Axe is strong enough, but Bardiche? One handed Bardiche available from xl1?


I like the idea of a tree or plant species, but there is simply too much stuff going on here. It is a balancing nightmare, and my suggestion is to cut your proposal by like 2/3rds and work towards a more concise proposal. I would look to other species and ask myself: what defines this species? What is the defining factor of this species that all other aspects of this species works towards? I believe (though I could be wrong) that many of the more eccentric Crawl species function in this manner: they take a defining mechanic and work the species around that mechanic.

EDIT: Oh hey I totally thought this was a GDD thread.

[wheals]

It was.

[pratamawirya]

EDIT: Oh hey I totally thought this was a GDD thread.

welcome to hell...

[bcadren]

1) The largest species in the game.
2) A plant species.
3) A species that cannot wear any body armour, but gets additional jewelry (This is an Octopode)
4) A species who cannot heal while monsters are in sight.
5) A species that passively or actively produces food
6) One of the most complicated activated abilities on any species
7) Another complicated ability based on passive fruit production
8) Fundamentally different attack mechanics than any other species in the game.
9) A species that has extremely little options to get rid of not one, but two pips of elemental vulnerability
10) The absolute best starting weapons ever ever in combination with great weapon apts. Scimitar/Morningstar/Broad Axe is strong enough, but Bardiche? One handed Bardiche available from xl1?

EDIT: Oh hey I totally thought this was a GDD thread.

3. Yea, I know; it could also just be no body armor...but that's felid. Point is logically, whether its a tree or its a dragon...it's too big to use normal armor slots.
4. It's doesn't heal period...while moving. If less than full, you can wait in order to get regen; basically.
5/6/7. Food is useless to you; so I wrote in a use for it, also seemed logical that a tree would produce food. *shrug*
8. Fo can use 2H weapons with one hand. This is just another step in that direction. [Again stemming from the idea that they are too large to be able to use smaller weapons.]
9. Mostly from the logic of being a tree; though I'll concede the point from a game design perspective. Tree Form (polymorph/potion of lignification) used to have that weakness, but it was removed.
10. Derp on Bardiche. I originally put 'Scythe' and went back to change it because that was too crappy compared to the other ones....meant to put Halberd, but I screwed up. [replaces]

Edit: It was...some asshole moved it.

[pratamawirya]

Edit: It was...some asshole moved it.

Yeah, why was this moved? This thread hasn't even degenerated into a "your idea sucks" mess....

[reaver]

EDIT: Oh hey I totally thought this was a GDD thread.

Edit: It was

By the way, the Design philosophy and "You must read this before posting in GDD" thread tell you how to avoid this.

Is this purposely duplicating Elms? I feel like most of this stuff is from Elms.

[bcadren]

Is this purposely duplicating Elms? I feel like most of this stuff is from Elms.

Nope. Never read elms; just made a player version of Perma-Treeform, with most its bells and whistles; Treant (cut enemy) and some stuff being more unique because huge.

[dck]

Okay, I have to ask. Would you actually want to play something like this?
Because this is a mess bigger than Dj and that's quite an accomplishment.

[bcadren]

Fixed. Return this now.

[Sar]

I am very disappointed that the next point after You are huge isn't You have huge guts (with some stuff about nutrition mechanics).

[dpeg]

I think all of this is way too complicated. I am partially responsible for one of the most complicated Crawl species (the Vampire) but even that can explained in a nutshell: vampires fluctuate between stealthy undead and quickly regenerating living humanoids depending on satiation. Note that this is not (just) a flavour description, but also tells you what's going on gameplay-wise.

The Tree proposal could be summarised as "it's a tree', of course -- but with the given specification, that'd be a flavour only (i.e. not a gameplay description). I don't think this can fly.

[tasonir]

While I agree that some things should be cut, I don't think it's impossible to sum up the tree race mechanics in a nutshell. Trees are extremely large plants which cannot wear armor and burn easily. In exchange they have high health, bark armor, and can wear additional rings. They are slower than other races, but more powerful and can regenerate and feed themselves from the ground.

Like I said, a couple of those things should be cut to simplify them, but it's not impossible to summarize. A lot of things that are bolded in the original post aren't really the kinds of things that matter, that dpeg left out of vampires: things like the exp apt, or their stat gain, which don't really matter much.

[tasonir]

Alright, what the hell, I'll cut some things down. Yes, I realize it's already in CYC.

You are huge: (section is the same except they use 1h and 2h weapons as normal)
Size factor of -8 (Max; Same as Dragons) for Evasion calculations.
Can only use Large Shields.
Immune to most forms of constriction (Krakens and Eldritch tentacles being the exceptions).
Cannot wear any body armor.
You may move and attack from shallow water as normal; From deep water you may move, but stumble like a normal-sized race in shallow.
They can wield giant clubs.

Your skin is very combustible: rF- (no longer double negative)
You have a large reservoir of HP: 50% higher than human. (this could go down to 40%, either way)
Your bark is very hard: 6 AC at start; +1 AC per level.
Many branches: Gain an extra ring slot every 9th level. [5 total at level 27]. (6 seems a bit much, 5 seems reasonable)
starting stats, stat gains, and xp apt are unchanged.

Remove slow healing, remove root ability.

You are a plant: (section is mostly the same but removed rPois)
rN+++
rTorm
Cannot eat or drink normally (no potions)
rRot
Unbreathing (rDrown)

I'm not entirely sure if the idea of eating as a tree makes sense - there are carnivorous plants of course, but not tree sized. Some sort of alternate food clock may be needed, but no healing combined with a complete immobility regen mode doesn't seem like the best way to do it.

[Igxfl]

Let's just rename Mummies to Ents and give them plant holiness.

[Klown]

Let's just rename Mummies to Ents and give them plant holiness.

Getting rid of the weak race & replacing it with something stronger that maintains all the fun mummy stuff = good.

[tasonir]

This race bares almost no resemblance to mummies aside from having a lot of resists in common (rN+++, rPois, rF-, torment). Almost anything else is different.

[Leafsnail]

The issue is that "multiple rings" is very much already covered by octopodes.

[khalil]

They don't eat and they get resists. That's a mummy.

[WalkerBoh]

Real tree race idea: the tree just sits on D:1 without moving, but the roots spread down through the dungeon ceiling, strangling monsters and uh, reading scrolls.

[duvessa]

Lack of potions is a bigger distinguishing feature of mummies than all of their other properties put together.

[treerex5]

Somehow... i feel drawn to the idea of this race.

Could it be my name?

Spoiler: show

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