Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!


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Lair Larrikin

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 20:55

Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

tw: fatphobia, fat shaming

I am a longtime Crawl player but I just can't ignore how problematic it is any longer. Specifically the RIDICULOUS amount of fat shaming and fatphobia internalized in the game's mechanics and artwork. Just look at the official tiles for the player character. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLe to find one that reflects my own weight and body type. If you pick human, the game ALWAYS gives you some thin athletic avatar. What are you saying Crawl? Fat people aren't humans? Fat people aren't worthy of going on adventures and having fun? No one would WANT to play a fat character?

Oh wait, if you want to play a humanoid character of above average size (and don't even get me started on how "thin" is considered average), you have to play an ogre or a troll. OGRE OR TROLL. That's what fat people are in the Crawl universe. And how does the game treat them? They get an evasion penalty due to their size! That says fat people can't move as well, they're such a big target and as a fathlete I'm just sick of seeing these lies in the media. On top of that, they don't get to equip armor like everyone else. The message is that fatties can't find shoes or gloves or clothes in general that fit them. As someone who CONSTANTLY goes through these issues in real life I DO NOT need what it supposed to be a harmless game to CONSTANTLY remind me about them. Putting both these points together reveals an even more insidious message: fat people can't defend themselves as well as thin people, they don't DESERVE to defend themselves as well. Well let me tell you, this fat person is absolutely capable of defending xzaerself.

And it doesn't stop there! Look at the monster that are fat. Blork the Orc is "A particularly fat and ugly orc. He seems to have scavenged a pair of rainbow-coloured suspenders from somewhere. They're not helping.". I just cannot believe how many stereotypes this panders to. Fat people are ugly, fat people can't dress themselves well, fat people can't look good.... the list goes on. Look at Wiglaf. "A fat dwarf wearing a stupid-looking hat. He reeks of alcohol." Even more fat shaming based on the way a fat person dresses AND it implies that fat people have to get drunk to feel good about themselves. It is so clear that whoever wrote these descriptions is incapable of seeing past their thin privilege and realized how hurtful these kinds of things are to a large portion of their fan base.

But the fat shaming isn't just for uniques. Look at ogres, one of the early game's biggest threats. They are fat and of course ugly and of course they do their best to kill you. Why else would this happen other than to suggest that fat is bad for your health and that fat kills people? Just more internalized fat phobia that everyone is just supposed to accept and never question. You know what other monsters are fat? Random pan lord and and cacodemons. DEMONS. Do I even need to explain this one?

I must give the dev team a small amount of credit for not buying into the MYTH that overeating makes someone fat. No matter how much you eat, your avatar never changes size. We don't know how to make thin people into fat people or fat people into thin people and I am glad to see that Crawl does not spread mistruths in this regard. However, I cannot help but wonder if this was not just a consequence of not wanting to depict fat player characters AT ALL.

I REALLY hope the dev team sees this and take some serious steps to make Crawl a more accepting game for people of all shapes and sizes. I must mention that I am still a smallfat (despite watching what I eat and jogging 3 miles a day) so I know that I still have some thin privilege. If there are any deathfats reading this PLEASE feel free to call me out.

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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 21:11

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Oh god my sides.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 21:15

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Well, my English does not allow me to be sure whether it was serious. I hope not.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 21:20

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Dole wrote:It is so clear that whoever wrote these descriptions is incapable of seeing... how hurtful these kinds of things are to a large portion of their fan base.

Heyooo

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 21:34

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Dole wrote:I must mention that I am still a smallfat (despite watching what I eat and jogging 3 miles a day) so I know that I still have some thin privilege. If there are any deathfats reading this PLEASE feel free to call me out.


I learned something today. This is apparently a thing:

http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/p ... n-the-same

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 22:32

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

I am afraid the damage done can never be repaired. Only one solution: ship 0.14 without tiles!

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 22:39

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

dpeg wrote:I am afraid the damage done can never be repaired. Only one solution: ship 0.14 without tiles!


JEEBUS NO
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 22:55

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

by the way did you guys know that using the 32 pixels of horizontal resolution for something that isn't fat (and more for dumb things like design) is generally the better idea
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.
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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 23:06

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsch roars with laughter! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 23:31

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsch I wrote:Hirsch roars with laughter! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Xom chuckles and adds Inner Flame to all of those orcs surrounding Hirsch.
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Post Friday, 7th March 2014, 23:57

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsch rolls in fetal position and cries. :cry:
after reading tele, of course.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 00:00

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsh teleports! Worker Ant comes into view x45. Soldier Ant comes into view x100
Dungeons of Dredmor's Monster Zoo music begins playing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8pGEcqdfew
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 00:25

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsch sighs :roll:
and burns his last tele. DM is evil today.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 01:41

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

new monster: ugly fat thing

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 01:42

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Grimm: accompanied by: beautiful fat thing
For overall justice.

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Sar

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 01:46

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

  Code:
The beautiful fat thing gurgles alluringly!

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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 04:03

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

i hope this was originally a response to that dumb gender thread in game discussion and got split
seattle washington. friends for life. mods hate on me and devs ignore my posts. creater of exoelfs and dc:pt
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Blades Runner

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 04:10

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

I can't hold it in anymore. Here goes. /rant

If you play in ASCII you won't be able to see whether an @ is wider than an O.

And aside from that your average fighter or gladiator likely was not just pulled off a couch, they were working quite hard pumping stat points into strength and dexterity. Magicians are typically anemic which would also explain their small constitutions.

Your typical, medium-sized humanoid is not going to be fat....Crawl has merely presented to you the typical size of an adventurer.

In the myths, stories, lore and other fictions that Crawl derives itself from, Ogres and Trolls are generally of a larger stature. The makers of Crawl did not give Ogres and Trolls wider portraits to represent their hate for fat people: that is simply what Ogres and Trolls are, in general. (You will not find thin trolls or ogres in 95% of the games you play. Purgy being an exception.)

If you are really so mad at the tiles you can go draw your own.

/endrant
114491 | Pan | Entered the realm of Gloorx Vloq.
114491 | Pan | Noticed Gloorx Vloq
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 04:12

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Now that you mention it the @ does look a little porky.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 05:19

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

umm excuse me ogres and trolls are not fat, they are ``large``
seattle washington. friends for life. mods hate on me and devs ignore my posts. creater of exoelfs and dc:pt

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 06:21

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Dole wrote:That's what fat people are in the Crawl universe. And how does the game treat them? They get an evasion penalty due to their size! That says fat people can't move as well, they're such a big target and as a fathlete I'm just sick of seeing these lies in the media.


But Hurley. Hurley is spry.

(There should be an Ogre unique named Hurley with high EV).

Dis Charger

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 06:41

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Dole wrote:That says fat people can't move as well, they're such a big target

but that's...
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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 08:30

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Lyrick wrote:/endrant

did you end your endrant here? you should end with [/rant] because / means "end" or "close" normally.
sorry, I'm very drunk right now, I tought this would be important.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 09:29

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

There's Purgy, this sad troll with a weight complex. Needless to say, the proper and large trolls have shunned the stupid smallfat.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 09:35

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

so now he hides in the sewers, or hangs in the shallow dungeon. everything makes sense now.
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 14:00

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

And don't forget about Snorg, who has no ambition to actually get up off his rock coach and find runes and the orbs. He just wants to be lazy and eat all the adventurers that come past him. This reflects societies views that fat people are fat because they are lazy, and that they have no ambitions or desires in life apart from eating.
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Blades Runner

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Post Saturday, 8th March 2014, 22:40

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Hirsch I wrote:
Lyrick wrote:/endrant

you should end with [/rant] because / means "end" or "close" normally.
sorry, I'm very drunk right now, I tought this would be important.


Haven't learned me any HTML yet, i don't know how those work at all
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114491 | Pan | Noticed Gloorx Vloq
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Post Sunday, 9th March 2014, 02:27

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Keep in mind that ogres are regarded as sexy in modern pop culture, despite their size Image
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Post Sunday, 9th March 2014, 02:57

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Image
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Post Sunday, 9th March 2014, 03:08

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

wut?
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 9th March 2014, 03:11

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Image
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 10th March 2014, 03:11

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Lyrick wrote:I can't hold it in anymore. Here goes. /rant

If you play in ASCII you won't be able to see whether an @ is wider than an O.

And aside from that your average fighter or gladiator likely was not just pulled off a couch, they were working quite hard pumping stat points into strength and dexterity. Magicians are typically anemic which would also explain their small constitutions.

Your typical, medium-sized humanoid is not going to be fat....Crawl has merely presented to you the typical size of an adventurer.

In the myths, stories, lore and other fictions that Crawl derives itself from, Ogres and Trolls are generally of a larger stature. The makers of Crawl did not give Ogres and Trolls wider portraits to represent their hate for fat people: that is simply what Ogres and Trolls are, in general. (You will not find thin trolls or ogres in 95% of the games you play. Purgy being an exception.)

If you are really so mad at the tiles you can go draw your own.

/endrant

That 'woosh' was so loud it made a sonic boom.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 10th March 2014, 03:19

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

Image

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Post Monday, 10th March 2014, 08:19

Re: Crawl is a fatphobic game and I am SICK OF IT!!!

CYChan
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