The Tavern

I'd like to propose letting the player eat poisoned chunks even without a source of rPois. The player should get poisoned for this, which is prevented by wearing rPois as usual. The strength of the poison can be adjusted to introduce a meaningful trade-off between nutrition gain and hp loss.

We already can eat mutagenic meat at will and probably the same should be done with poisoned meat (and rot-inducing meat as well while we're at it). The only problem I can see with implementing this change is more abundant meat, but I've always found the rPois restriction a wonky way to balance the food clock. Does rPois reeally need to be not just "this keeps you from getting poisoned", but also "this unlocks more meat for you to eat"? Even from the flavor point of view, we currently have a situation when a character can walk through Snake shrugging off venom bolts and basically bathing in poison, but ooh, this meat has a bit of poison inside, would rather starve than eat it.

P.S. The poisoned chunks have been discussed a lot in he past, but I haven't found a thread with this exact proposal and arguments against it, I'm sorry if it was made before.

Poison chunks change the decisions a player makes very little and with no tradeoff. This could make it some sort of tradeoff, but the tactical effect wouldn't be likely to come up very often, so I think I'd rather remove poisoned chunks.

Basically, if someone proposed "electrified chunks" that you needed rElec to eat, the idea would likely be mocked as dumb and yuifed, therefore I think poison chunks are only around because of momentum and should be removed.

johlstei wrote:Basically, if someone proposed "electrified chunks" that you needed rElec to eat, the idea would likely be mocked as dumb and yuifed, therefore I think poison chunks are only around because of momentum and should be removed.

I don't see why, if it makes thematic sense. I can see there being a problem if chunks were randomly poison or electric or something, but if you told me that black draconian had some electric charge remaining in his chunks (that phrase sounds SO dirty), I would believe it.

Partly, it's also in how it's handled. If a monster had electric chunks, I would prefer a message saying you can't pick up the chunk rather than a problem eating it.

If I recall, you used to be able to eat the poisoned chunks, but it was for no nutrition.

This would only make sense in a world where poison wasn't cured by '5'

Electro chunks should make electro zombies.

I'd rather want Vp to be able to bottle poisoned blood and such since they don't have permafood.

some permablood for extended games would be cool, too.

TeshiAlair wrote:This would only make sense in a world where poison wasn't cured by '5' .

5ving also wastes nutrition, and if the poisoning is strong enough you will have to waste consumables if on low hp.

Alternatively you could just munch down something from your huge stash of permafood instead of desperately eating poisoned chunks while low on health.

I think this was a thing during the Nausea era (or it was at least a proposed part of that change), it was removed because it's not an interesting decision at all. In any case the idea that eating poison could make you more satiated (as opposed to violently sick) is kindof dumb.

You are feeling hungry.
You see here a chunk of giant mite flesh.
Really eat this poisonous chunk of flesh?
[Y]es or [N]o only please
There was something very wrong with that meat!
You feel weak. You feel clumsy. You feel stupid. You feel nauseous.

(10 turns pass)

You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck! (green splatter on walls and floor like blood pattern, dissipates after 100 turns)
A goblin comes into view.
You can't cast spells while vomiting!
You can't read scrolls while vomiting!
You can't quaff potions while vomiting!
You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck!
You feel a lot better. Your body feels a bit shaky, but back to normal.
You are very hungry.

Arkhan wrote:You are feeling hungry.
You see here a chunk of giant mite flesh.
Really eat this poisonous chunk of flesh?
[Y]es or [N]o only please
There was something very wrong with that meat!
You feel weak. You feel clumsy. You feel stupid. You feel nauseous.

(10 turns pass)

You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck! (green splatter on walls and floor like blood pattern, dissipates after 100 turns)
A goblin comes into view.
You can't cast spells while vomiting!
You can't read scrolls while vomiting!
You can't quaff potions while vomiting!
You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck!
You feel a lot better. Your body feels a bit shaky, but back to normal.
You are very hungry.

Meh, eating poisoned chunks only would work if there was some reason you might maybe elect to do so.
give a forced Naga Spit in place of vomiting, and poison chunks become a weapon, and you get to envision your precious character killing a monster by vomiting on it.

This was actually the case in very old versions of dcss, except poison chunks were coded to give no nutrition if you didn't have rpois.

I expect there is effectively zero chance of going back to that situation, even if you change the latter part.

Why can't we just remove poison from kobolds and unnecessary early game creatures? I mean, that would remove like, 90% of the problem.

Seriously, what is the point in making a giant slug poisonous? Just remove poison from everything that doesn't imply it thematically(like nagas and spiders).

Tiktacy wrote:Seriously, what is the point in making a giant slug poisonous? Just remove poison from everything that doesn't imply it thematically(like nagas and spiders).

Funnily enough, almost none of the real-life animals Crawl identifies as poisonous are actually poisonous! I don't know of any soldier ants (including their queens), slugs, snails, centipedes, or wasps that are poisonous.

Some beetles and frogs are poisonous, as well as some keelback snakes (but all Crawl snakes are clearly outside that genus). But in none of these cases are all of the members poisonous, so it is perfectly reasonable for a fictional species to not be poisonous. I don't think there's any gain in theme from poisonous corpses unless you want to add poison dart frogs to Crawl. Or if you didn't pay attention in middle school biology and don't understand the difference between venomous and poisonous.

I've always though that kobolds are toxic/poisonous because they are some sort of mine goblins and their blood contain a high amount of metals like lead and such. Otherwise I couldn't figure out the reason behind this.

I think the main reason kobolds are poisonous in Crawl is: kobolds are poisonous in NetHack. Alternatively, according to Wikipedia, miners blamed kobolds for arsenical ore, but Crawl kobolds have approximately nothing in common with mythological kobolds and approximately everything in common with D&D kobolds (which aren't poisonous to my knowledge).

Kobolds in Nethack teach newbie players the lesson that you shouldn't eat everything you kill. It's almost certain that Linley just took kobolds from Nethack to Crawl.

I thought it was, "player kobolds can eat rotten meat, so monster kobolds have been eating spoiled food and are disease carriers." I don't even remember if player kobolds can actually eat rotten meat- with the auto eat options I just carry every chunk I can lift and let auto-explore handle the eating.

yay, eating is fun.

It's much more fun in the real world, imo.

Arkhan wrote:It's much more fun in the real world, imo.

Especially corpses, mmm...

well, if you are not veggetarian, you usually eat corpses.

Not without cooking them (which reminds me of ADOM...)

Vegetables are corpses too.

They are plant corpses, you sick necrophagiacs

plants are alive bro

e:(yeah I eat them anyway too)

ElectricAlbatross wrote:They are plant corpses, you sick necrophagiacs

dont you mean necrodendrophiles

The correct term is "necrodendrovorarephiliacs", thank you very much

sorry i forgot we werent talking about fucking them

NSFWish

Spoiler: show

what the fuck

i thought it was relevant sorry

Veni.

Vidi but I thought that was going far enough.

hi confint!

The Tavern

Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rPois

Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rPois

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP