Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rPois


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Lair Larrikin

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 15:28

Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rPois

I'd like to propose letting the player eat poisoned chunks even without a source of rPois. The player should get poisoned for this, which is prevented by wearing rPois as usual. The strength of the poison can be adjusted to introduce a meaningful trade-off between nutrition gain and hp loss.

We already can eat mutagenic meat at will and probably the same should be done with poisoned meat (and rot-inducing meat as well while we're at it). The only problem I can see with implementing this change is more abundant meat, but I've always found the rPois restriction a wonky way to balance the food clock. Does rPois reeally need to be not just "this keeps you from getting poisoned", but also "this unlocks more meat for you to eat"? Even from the flavor point of view, we currently have a situation when a character can walk through Snake shrugging off venom bolts and basically bathing in poison, but ooh, this meat has a bit of poison inside, would rather starve than eat it.

P.S. The poisoned chunks have been discussed a lot in he past, but I haven't found a thread with this exact proposal and arguments against it, I'm sorry if it was made before.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 15:32

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Poison chunks change the decisions a player makes very little and with no tradeoff. This could make it some sort of tradeoff, but the tactical effect wouldn't be likely to come up very often, so I think I'd rather remove poisoned chunks.

Basically, if someone proposed "electrified chunks" that you needed rElec to eat, the idea would likely be mocked as dumb and yuifed, therefore I think poison chunks are only around because of momentum and should be removed.

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Spider Stomper

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 15:59

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

johlstei wrote:Basically, if someone proposed "electrified chunks" that you needed rElec to eat, the idea would likely be mocked as dumb and yuifed, therefore I think poison chunks are only around because of momentum and should be removed.


I don't see why, if it makes thematic sense. I can see there being a problem if chunks were randomly poison or electric or something, but if you told me that black draconian had some electric charge remaining in his chunks (that phrase sounds SO dirty), I would believe it.

Partly, it's also in how it's handled. If a monster had electric chunks, I would prefer a message saying you can't pick up the chunk rather than a problem eating it.

If I recall, you used to be able to eat the poisoned chunks, but it was for no nutrition.
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 16:00

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

This would only make sense in a world where poison wasn't cured by '5'

Electro chunks should make electro zombies.
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Dis Charger

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 16:12

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

I'd rather want Vp to be able to bottle poisoned blood and such since they don't have permafood.

some permablood for extended games would be cool, too.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 16:29

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

TeshiAlair wrote:This would only make sense in a world where poison wasn't cured by '5' .


5ving also wastes nutrition, and if the poisoning is strong enough you will have to waste consumables if on low hp.
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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 16:52

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Alternatively you could just munch down something from your huge stash of permafood instead of desperately eating poisoned chunks while low on health.
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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 17:14

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

I think this was a thing during the Nausea era (or it was at least a proposed part of that change), it was removed because it's not an interesting decision at all. In any case the idea that eating poison could make you more satiated (as opposed to violently sick) is kindof dumb.

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 17:37

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

You are feeling hungry.
You see here a chunk of giant mite flesh.
Really eat this poisonous chunk of flesh?
[Y]es or [N]o only please
There was something very wrong with that meat!
You feel weak. You feel clumsy. You feel stupid. You feel nauseous.

(10 turns pass)

You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck! (green splatter on walls and floor like blood pattern, dissipates after 100 turns)
A goblin comes into view.
You can't cast spells while vomiting!
You can't read scrolls while vomiting!
You can't quaff potions while vomiting!
You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck!
You feel a lot better. Your body feels a bit shaky, but back to normal.
You are very hungry.

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Post Friday, 21st February 2014, 21:09

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Arkhan wrote:You are feeling hungry.
You see here a chunk of giant mite flesh.
Really eat this poisonous chunk of flesh?
[Y]es or [N]o only please
There was something very wrong with that meat!
You feel weak. You feel clumsy. You feel stupid. You feel nauseous.

(10 turns pass)

You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck! (green splatter on walls and floor like blood pattern, dissipates after 100 turns)
A goblin comes into view.
You can't cast spells while vomiting!
You can't read scrolls while vomiting!
You can't quaff potions while vomiting!
You can't hold it down any longer! Urrrrp! Yuck!
You feel a lot better. Your body feels a bit shaky, but back to normal.
You are very hungry.



Meh, eating poisoned chunks only would work if there was some reason you might maybe elect to do so.
give a forced Naga Spit in place of vomiting, and poison chunks become a weapon, and you get to envision your precious character killing a monster by vomiting on it.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 22nd February 2014, 00:37

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

This was actually the case in very old versions of dcss, except poison chunks were coded to give no nutrition if you didn't have rpois.

I expect there is effectively zero chance of going back to that situation, even if you change the latter part.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 22nd February 2014, 05:44

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Why can't we just remove poison from kobolds and unnecessary early game creatures? I mean, that would remove like, 90% of the problem.

Seriously, what is the point in making a giant slug poisonous? Just remove poison from everything that doesn't imply it thematically(like nagas and spiders).
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Post Saturday, 22nd February 2014, 06:39

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Tiktacy wrote:Seriously, what is the point in making a giant slug poisonous? Just remove poison from everything that doesn't imply it thematically(like nagas and spiders).
Funnily enough, almost none of the real-life animals Crawl identifies as poisonous are actually poisonous! I don't know of any soldier ants (including their queens), slugs, snails, centipedes, or wasps that are poisonous.

Some beetles and frogs are poisonous, as well as some keelback snakes (but all Crawl snakes are clearly outside that genus). But in none of these cases are all of the members poisonous, so it is perfectly reasonable for a fictional species to not be poisonous. I don't think there's any gain in theme from poisonous corpses unless you want to add poison dart frogs to Crawl. Or if you didn't pay attention in middle school biology and don't understand the difference between venomous and poisonous.

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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 00:50

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

I've always though that kobolds are toxic/poisonous because they are some sort of mine goblins and their blood contain a high amount of metals like lead and such. Otherwise I couldn't figure out the reason behind this.
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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 02:27

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

I think the main reason kobolds are poisonous in Crawl is: kobolds are poisonous in NetHack. Alternatively, according to Wikipedia, miners blamed kobolds for arsenical ore, but Crawl kobolds have approximately nothing in common with mythological kobolds and approximately everything in common with D&D kobolds (which aren't poisonous to my knowledge).
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 12:22

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Kobolds in Nethack teach newbie players the lesson that you shouldn't eat everything you kill. It's almost certain that Linley just took kobolds from Nethack to Crawl.
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 13:03

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

I thought it was, "player kobolds can eat rotten meat, so monster kobolds have been eating spoiled food and are disease carriers." I don't even remember if player kobolds can actually eat rotten meat- with the auto eat options I just carry every chunk I can lift and let auto-explore handle the eating.
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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 18:14

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

yay, eating is fun.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Sunday, 23rd February 2014, 23:43

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

It's much more fun in the real world, imo.
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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 00:00

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Arkhan wrote:It's much more fun in the real world, imo.

Especially corpses, mmm...
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 01:07

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

well, if you are not veggetarian, you usually eat corpses.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 10:01

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Not without cooking them (which reminds me of ADOM...)
DCSS: 77: ...SpWz{OgGlTrMo}{CeWnMfBeMiSk}DrEE{GrFiFoGl}DgEnFeNe{OpGlHuSu}DDAr
HaCKSpAEGrTmDgFEDsCjGhMoHuVM{HaAMBaEn}{HuMoHOWn}DsWzDDHu{DgWnGnBe}FeIE
{MiEnMfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWr
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 10:35

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Vegetables are corpses too.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 18:47

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

wut?
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Spider Stomper

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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 19:24

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

They are plant corpses, you sick necrophagiacs

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Post Monday, 24th February 2014, 21:47

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

plants are alive bro

e:(yeah I eat them anyway too)

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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 00:18

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

ElectricAlbatross wrote:They are plant corpses, you sick necrophagiacs
dont you mean necrodendrophiles

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 06:54

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

The correct term is "necrodendrovorarephiliacs", thank you very much

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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 06:55

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

sorry i forgot we werent talking about fucking them
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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 07:00

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

NSFWish
Spoiler: show
Image
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 07:21

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

what the fuck
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Post Tuesday, 25th February 2014, 07:26

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

i thought it was relevant sorry
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 27th February 2014, 09:11

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Veni.
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Post Tuesday, 4th March 2014, 09:58

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

Vidi but I thought that was going far enough.
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Post Tuesday, 4th March 2014, 21:17

Re: Proposal: let the player eat poisoned chunks even w/o rP

hi confint!
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