Brainstorm: crawl 1v1 mode

[DracheReborn]

Dungeon too easy for you? How about a 1-on-1 fight vs. a fellow crawler?

Basically, the idea is to have an expanded Arena for players. Example of how it would work: 2 players start at different points of a randomly generated level. Monsters and loot are generated as normal, but you have a new (additional) goal: find and destroy your opponent!

Players start on an equal footing (same XP, same choice of equipment to start with). Maybe both should be same species/background too. Monsters try to kill either of you as normal. Dying to a monster means you lose. XP earned from monsters or loot found on the floor can give you an edge.

Not sure how easy any of this is to tack on to existing crawl, but is this something that would be interesting to play?

[godzilla]

Multiplayer crawl would be very cool.
Summoners would still be OP, though.

[Amnesiac]

Multiplayer crawl is what I've been thinking about a lot. But there is this "turn-based" element...

[and into]

Cool idea. I especially like that good dungeon-exploration and fighting abilities give you an edge in advance of the 1- on 1-brawl.

Maybe the simplest implementation would be this:

"Pregame! Get ready for your match!" You start off with a potion of experience, and each dude is in a completely cordoned-off area to explore. You have a certain length of time (not turns, but seconds) to explore as much as you can, find what items you want, and kill enemies for extra XP. When the countdown reaches 0, each player is insta-healed and teleported to the arena. If one character dies while exploring, you still get insta-healed and teleported to the arena, however that person has now missed out on some of the pregame preparations and is at a distinct disadvantage.

EDIT: Probably some kind of PvP damage penalty needs to apply though, and some other effects would probably need to be banned and/or nerfed to keep the tactics varied and interesting. Of course some of these things could be toggled, so a "no holds barred" option is available as well.

[DracheReborn]

Multiplayer crawl would be very cool.

Oh, that's too ambitious for me. My idea was to start with 2-player crawl in a 1v1 scenario and see how far it could go.

Multiplayer crawl is what I've been thinking about a lot. But there is this "turn-based" element...

Hmm, actually turn-based makes it easier right? Oh right, you'll have to keep waiting for the other guy to make a move. Any bright ideas on this?

When the countdown reaches 0, each player is insta-healed and teleported to the arena.

Well your idea would allow players to play non-simultaneously pre-match, but I thought it would be cool if skill or plain dumb luck lets you position yourself in a superior way to your opponent. E.g. noise from fighting could warn you where your opponent is, scouting terrain beforehand is beneficial, etc.

[SublimeSnake]

While I don't know if it would be possible, I think a Zot Defence vs. Zot Attack type of mode would be fun

[Amnesiac]

Oh right, you'll have to keep waiting for the other guy to make a move. Any bright ideas on this?

Well, I'm pretty sure no one will make a turn-based crawl. But how about this: allow simultaneous autoexplore and other multi-turn actions. Might be a bit annoying when you also stop simultaneosly.

[Piginabag]

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 55 5 5 5 5 55 5 5 5555 5 55 5 5 5 5 55 5555555 5 5 5 5 5

your opponent has disconnected

[Sandman25]

It would be more interesting to me if you still had the same goal - ascend with the orb. Both players can attack each other but defeated player does not die, she appears 3 dungeon/branch levels below and has a chance to lose some gear/inventory items. So you can try to use different tactics in next fight or just avoid your opponent (stealth works vs human player too). Perhaps if you are defeated by player N (7?) times, you die.

[Hirsch I]

It would be more fun if you can create the dungeon, like a dungeon master, and have another player explore it and try to get the orb.

[XuaXua]

It would be more fun if you can create the dungeon, like Dwarf Fortress, and have another player explore it and try to get the orb.

ftfy

[DracheReborn]

It would be more fun if you can create the dungeon, like a dungeon master, and have another player explore it and try to get the orb.

You can do that now. Be a vault developer! I hear that the pay is good.

5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 55 5 5 5 5 55 5 5 5555 5 55 5 5 5 5 55 5555555 5 5 5 5 5

your opponent has disconnected

In the most basic scenario (arena-style 1-on-1 in a small empty room), there'd be no occasion for resting, hopefully. The idea of and_into works with this too, since the prematch part can be played independently before getting transported to the arena.

I'll probably start with the arena scenario, which seems to have a smaller scope and hopefully is within my abilities! I'd keep turn-by-turn play - on a small map where you can see your opponent, I think this is bearable. Other stuff can be added later if this proof of concept works out.

[Siegurt]

It would be a substantially large change for crawl.

The best way for it to work would be for there to be a timeout, if you don't take an action in a proscribed length of time, you are forced to rest for a turn (.) (or perhaps tab if you are adjacent to a creature, or maybe you act with a monster AI )

This would work for both competitive and co-operative versions.

It would be kind of slow and irritating though.

[Leafsnail]

Both players are 6 star Nemelex supporters with a whole load of decks

[dck]

  Code:

kcd mumbles some prayers to Elyvilon. You feel much better.
The light of Elyvilon reaches you.
You leave the dungeon peacefully.

[Senban]

The best way for it to work would be for there to be a timeout, if you don't take an action in a proscribed length of time, you are forced to rest for a turn (.) (or perhaps tab if you are adjacent to a creature, or maybe you act with a monster AI )

You could have a chess clock like mechanic where the timeout becomes loosely consensual based on the tempo of other players (with a hard limit on each end so that frantic tabbers don't get to much advantage).

Limited scope multiplayer (vs and coop) would be awesome, probably not something any other roguelike has tried. The limitations are pretty obvious but alongside sprint and zot defence it's not quite totally unthinkable, and presumably most of the networking code is already in web-tiles.

[XuaXua]

The worst thing ever was multi-player Baldur's Gate I. I started out playing with a more experienced player who just flew through the game, constantly sticking me in equipment select screens during which I could do nothing.

The time this would consume if one player was not on board would be ridiculous.

[Confidence Interval]

Crawl 1v1 Play by Mail!

Dear Player

Your opponent has made the following move:

XuaXua unwields a war axe.

Please select your next move and, as always, please ensure your response letter reaches us, at the usual address, within ten working days.



I used to play PBM games. That was a long time ago.

[Grimm]

Crawl 1v1 Live: meet and physically fight another person who has played Crawl. Post pics.

[Confidence Interval]

Crawl 1v1 Live: meet and have a friendly drink with another person who has played Crawl. Post pics.

I think this would be preferable, on the whole. However, I've never knowingly met another person who has played Crawl. Perhaps I'd want to fight them, if I met them.

[moocowmoocow]

I like the idea of a prematch where you both scramble for equipment in separate areas. Or, it could even be in the same area and you're not allowed to attack eachother during the equipping phase (this is realtime of course). Then the battle itself switches to turn based. Arena would need to be small enough to keep people from running away indefinitely. Turns should be time limited, maybe 10-15 seconds, or let the players agree upon and set a time. Maybe each player should guaranteed start with 3 cure potions or so, to not get debilitated and killed instantly. Some spells and abilities would need to be disabled, like dck pointed out with pacification. Others I can think of are distortion banishment, paralyze, polymorph.

[roxymo]

this would be AWESOME! how can we make this happen? i made an account just to show my support! ill send the money who wants to code it?

[Hirsch I]

just send your credit card and social security number, and we'll work something out.

[tasonir]

just send your credit card and social security number, and we'll work something out.

Noob. You didn't even ask for the expiration date and CCV.

[roxymo]

i would love a game like crawl where you explore a little while then fight in the arena. either 1v1 or small party would be dope!

[Rast]

If this were to actually be a thing, each player should get X turns or 24 hours, whichever came first, in separate dungeons. After that they get healed up, status effects timed out, and teleported into an arena for fsim to determine a victor.

Players who died before their time was up would go to the arena in ghostform, which is (I think) a disadvantage.

[Hirsch I]

how is ghostform a disvantage?

[bcadren]

how is ghostform a disvantage?

It's not. Actually it'd be more of an advantage than lichform. Maybe if it can't drink that would be a disadvantage (since the foe will probably quaff all their good potions; but otherwise; rSticky, rRot, rTorm, rN+++, Draining Breath (if Draconian)...NOT a disadvantage...

[Greyr]

how is ghostform a disvantage?

It's not. Actually it'd be more of an advantage than lichform. Maybe if it can't drink that would be a disadvantage (since the foe will probably quaff all their good potions; but otherwise; rSticky, rRot, rTorm, rN+++, Draining Breath (if Draconian)...NOT a disadvantage...

Lets just hope they weren't a transmuter

[Rast]

OK then, not ghostform. Dying in the dungeon part would still cut your advancement short.

[xentronium]

You and your opponent play separate games, but with identical map layouts. The position of each character is communicated across both games. You can both play at different speeds, but as soon as the other character comes into LOS, monsters overlapping either character position are deleted and you enter alternate turn-based mode until someone is dead (may not leave mutual LOS, gain -tele status.)

When someone wins, both players are restored to full health and the loser is mildly drained and teleported randomly out of LOS (death is never permanent while another player is in view). If the loser has the orb, losing the combat will teleport the orb back to the orb chamber. Goal is to be the first to escape with the orb. Max combat duration is 5-10 minutes, after which the player with the most HP wins automatically.

If someone is saved+exit before combat, both players lose control and combat proceeds randomly, with both using spells like ghosts would. Save+exit during combat means automatic loss.

This could work for a general ffa, not just 1v1 crawl.