The Tavern

I found out that Xom is actually very useful for learning basic staff:
1) Never be below 50% HP/MP (instant teleport)
2) Never explore dungeon without escape means (if you have choice), escape early, not at 20% HP.
3) Don't berserk (instant teleport)
4) Always lure monsters to fight one by one (swap positions)
5) Train stealth unless you are a tank in heavy armour (shouts, instant teleport)
6) Enchant several different weapons (swap weapons), learn different spells for elementalists (summon hostile monsters who are immune to fire/air)
7) Improve defense of spellcasters very early (you will be surrounded by hostile monsters no matter what you do), hybridize early (you will be out of MP sometimes no matter what you do).
8) Immediately adapt to mutations (quaffing unknown mutations can be good sometimes, getting Spider rune while you have clarity mutation)
9) Get used to unfair deaths and "unfair" ones.
I start to believe that one cannot be considered a good player unless he/she has won with Xom at least once.
What do you think?

If you want to learn basic stuff play HuWn and adapt as the game progresses...

Sandman25 wrote:9) Get used to unfair deaths and "unfair" ones.

If you are not with Xom there are almost none of those in the game

Sandman25 wrote:I start to believe that one cannot be considered a good player unless he/she has won with Xom at least once.
What do you think?

I only take advice from players who have a MuCK win streak of at least 3!!!

Well, I am not sure Wn is a good background for new players. I tried OgWn and started with 7+ M&F on one character and some Ice Magic without any spells on another. So I think it is more about start scumming than about adaptation.

Well, Berserk is good if you use it in a way that doesn't put you in danger. I'm not sure about enchanting several weapons, do you mean like, enchant a scimitar a bit if you don't follow a gifting god because who knows when you get your demon blade? Also I'd disagree on quaffing mut being "good".

Sar wrote:Well, Berserk is good if you use it in a way that doesn't put you in danger. I'm not sure about enchanting several weapons, do you mean like, enchant a scimitar a bit if you don't follow a gifting god because who knows when you get your demon blade? Also I'd disagree on quaffing mut being "good".

Well, berserk is risky because you never know if Erolcha will come into view next turn, for example. Sometimes it is the safest option though.
Yes, I meant enchant non-end game weapon.
I wrote "sometimes" about mutations, for example if you have -10%HP, shoutis and deteriorating body, you want to quaff cure mutation without waiting for ID scrolls.

I don't think a new player should play xom and I don't think xom teaches you anything that is particularly worthwhile as a newbie that you can't learn from playing things that don't involve xom. DrBe/Gl are much better for leaning things as a new guy.

Also I don't know what to say about that list of things you supposedly learn with xom because half of them are even terrible ideas while worshipping xom and overall none except the really basic stuff has any bearing on non-xom games.
Things that are particularly bad to do are to quaff !mut or to fight xom summons (and getting redundant offensive spells for this reason). Swap weapon is very uncommon and xom's pc tukima is afaik always friendly, so in practice all you do is carry a random weapon of your category with good base type to swap to in case you have to. There's nothing wrong with enchanting a morningstar or scimitar if you're going to be using it for a while but to also enchant another weapon you won't use 99% of the time is a bad idea.

Ideally you should kite enemies you want to berserk vs. to someplace safe, not tab-aa as soon as they come into view.

The berserker charge to strike fear in the hearts of the enemies of xom.
Oh yeah xom berserk lasts a buttload and will never paralyze you so you can basically run around screaming at everyone for 20 turns and be a little rupert for a while.

dck wrote:be a little rupert for a while.

fr: tt while berserk has a chance to paralyze and confuse monsters

I didn't mean Xom's berserk, I meant something like that:

Code:: @: about to teleport, exhausted, slowed, very slow, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, stealthy You whack the quicksilver dragon! You kill the quicksilver dragon! Your Maces & Flails skill increases to level 13! "Let's go for a ride!" Your surroundings suddenly seem different. 3 orcs, 3 orc warriors, 2 orc priests and an iron troll come into view. You strike the helpless orc priest from a blind spot! You thrash the orc priest!! You kill the orc priest! The orc priest shouts! The orc shouts! The orc wizard shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc shouts! The iron troll shouts! The orc shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warlord shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior throws a tomahawk. The tomahawk misses you. The tomahawk misses the orc warrior. The tomahawk hits the orc warrior. An orc comes into view. It is wielding an orcish short sword. The orc shouts! The orc priest becomes somewhat translucent. You see here an orcish short sword. You feel a strong urge to attack something. The orc warrior barely misses you. The orc warrior hits you but does no damage. You are no longer berserk. You are exhausted. You feel yourself slow down. 28702 | Orc:3 | XOM: polymorph iron troll -> quicksilver dragon 28726 | Orc:3 | XOM: potion effect (invisibility) 28735 | Orc:3 | Huge Dmg: 39 dmg 28736 | Orc:3 | Huge Dmg: 13 dmg 28740 | Orc:3 | Killed a quicksilver dragon 28740 | Orc:3 | Reached skill level 13 in Maces & Flails 28740 | Orc:3 | XOM: 1-stop teleportation journey 28745 | Orc:3 | Huge Dmg: 22 dmg 28745 | Orc:3 | HP: 2/114 [orc priest/divine providence (12)] 28746 | Orc:3 | Huge Dmg: 12 dmg 28746 | Orc:3 | Annihilated by an orc warlord

Speed: 15 | HD: 16 | HP: 64-108 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 25, 20
That was not the best idea to begin with.

dck wrote:Speed: 15 | HD: 16 | HP: 64-108 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 25, 20
That was not the best idea to begin with.

Yes, I know. If I'd use teleport earlier, you'd said either "Teleporting on mostly unexplored level is not the best idea" or "Death caused by lack of teleportation is caused by too bad play on previous levels"

I would be surely alive without Xom but it made me think I should never be below 50% HP, especially berserk.

Right I probably would've said something like dispel makes your Tele status go away so that doesn't sound like the most solid plan either.

dck wrote:Right I probably would've said something like dispel makes your Tele status go away so that doesn't sound like the most solid plan either.

So it looks like berserking was the least evil. Though I am not sure I would get tele dispelled, I had RMsl active and good EV.

No there was probably a solution for the problem at hand that didn't involve hitting the orc quicksilver dragon.

Code:
The orc priest shouts! The orc shouts! The orc wizard shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc shouts! The iron troll shouts! The orc shouts! The orc shouts! The orc warlord shouts! The orc warrior shouts! The orc warrior shouts!

FR: Brace collapsing for message log:

Code:: The orc {priest,,wizard,,warrior,,warrior,warrior,warrior,} shouts! The iron troll shouts! The orc {,,warlord,warrior,warrior} shouts!

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