The Tavern

duvessa wrote:People say that?

People say that removing wand of haste increased number of generated potions of haste

So I have a 3-rune demigod character with statue form, a +9 double sword of freezing, and nice loot. I can win easily. So of course I decide to forgo that and go extended for some reason.

That's not even my mistake. I clear the whole thing, grab all the runes, and with the ridiculous amount of XP in extended and my roughly 55 points of int, I get Necromut and Glaciate online. I'm feeling pimp as fuck at this point, and I finally grab the orb and make my way up.

On D:6, I meet another pan lord. I think nothing of it and engage him in lichform with glaciate. Suddenly and catching me completely blindsided, this guy paralyses me. I didn't even know that could happen with my like 4 pips of MR. Aight, no biggie right? It's just paralysis.

Wrong.

I get the whole 7 turns of paralysis. Maximum duration, according to the wiki. He and his summoned friends bash me the whole time with the help a stray orb guardian. I wake up to near-death, at around 40 HP. All right, let me just use one of my 4 scrolls of blinking and get the fuck out, right? Wrong again. I notice at this point that somehow he managed to confuse me as well. Still keeping my cool, I reach into my inventory for one of my 20+ !curing. Dear reader, it was at this point that I remember I am in lichform. I am well and truly fucked. I try to wait out the confusion by running, but it is to no avail.

This was actually quite funny to me, and I kind of genuinely appreciate that the game punished my absolute hubris. I happily reroll a new character a few hours later, my faith in crawl still intact. I'm enjoying my drops, having a good feeling about this character. Guess who I meet on D:6?

Yes. The very same.

Of course I die instantly to a full-power Glaciate before I can even attempt to run.

My faith in Crawl begins to crack. I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to play again before clearing my morgue file. Why do we still have player ghosts in 2017?

P.S.: at least everyone can feel relieved to know that this happened offline. I can only imagine how much grief I could have caused with that death had I been online.

tankra wrote:My faith in Crawl begins to crack. I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to play again before clearing my morgue file. Why do we still have player ghosts in 2017?

P.S.: at least everyone can feel relieved to know that this happened offline. I can only imagine how much grief I could have caused with that death had I been online.

I ALWAYS remove ghosts when playing offline. It is not cheating.
Pan lords can have chaos attacks which can paralyze you ignoring MR completely. Yes, almost as stupid as player ghosts.
Sorry about the character.

... I'm in Spider, without rpois. Get surrounded, dig into a nearby wall, trying to make a killhole. Right into a bee vault with meliais and stuff. RIP.

nago wrote:You're playing a TrEE^Oka just because you wanna to play a statue troll, and just after finding statue form in a shop in orc:2 oka gifts that:
Code:
the +10 gold dragon scales "Duat Fea" {rPois rF+ rC+ Str+6 Dex+5 Stlth-}.

Oka just saved you. Gotta have faith!

Code:: As you read the scroll of acquirement, it crumbles to dust. [a] Weapon [b] Armour [c] Jewellery [d] Book [e] Staff [f] Evocables [g] Food [h] Gold What kind of item would you like to acquire? (\ to view known items) Something appears at your feet! You see here a scorched cloak. C - a scorched cloak Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) You start removing your armour. You continue taking off your +2 cloak of poison resistance. x4 You finish taking off your +2 cloak of poison resistance. You no longer feel resistant to poison. You start putting on your armour. You continue putting on your scorched cloak. x5 You finish putting on the -5 cloak "Osicweri" {Stlth+}.

A merfolk impaler (77% chance of defeating MR)
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler is devoured by a tear in reality!
...argh. Eight attempts were needed.

Shtopit wrote:A merfolk impaler (77% chance of defeating MR)
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler resist with some effort!
The merfolk impaler is devoured by a tear in reality!
...argh. Eight attempts were needed.

Most likely it was wearing some MR+ gear.

I really don't love player ghosts. I especially dislike very early ones with enough AC to completely shrug off even might-boosted attacks, that hit for 20+ damage per hit, and which are somehow omniresistant. Please stop punishing people because someone else got their hulking randart-wearing minotaur or whatever smited to death on D:4. It sucks having to skip multiple floors to get away from these things when you're strong enough to handle everything else the dungeon generates.

EDIT: Just had a game where another hulking resistant minotaur was camping on Orc:1. This time with a vamp weapon. How does that even die on Orc:1? Oh, yeah...another ghost, maybe. They're like viruses.

VeryAngryFelid wrote:First world problem. What should I use vs orbs of fire: +13 vampiric great mace, +9 antimagic evenigstar, +7 lajatang of Order {silver, rMut} or +5 demon whip "Spellbinder" {god gift, antimagic, MR+}. Of course I have some slaying (Slay+3 on ring with *Corr, AC+2 and Str+7) and silver javelins at min delay to complicate it even more. Why can't it be easy?

Silver javelins every time, at least when not in melee.

Seconded. Silver Javelins are really good. In melee, I wonder. Eveningstar if you are using a shield, otherwise Order?

Obviously I was asking about melee range. That character won long time ago so it's a rhetorical question now. All weapons were good enough of course.

I'd be interested in a little fsim, but I fear the result would be a misrepresesntation. Does fsim interact with anti-magic at all? Do enemies in fsim actually use spells?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:Does fsim interact with anti-magic at all? Do enemies in fsim actually use spells?

No to both questions. Also spellbinder makes it even more complicated as it makes target suffer from miscasts on hit.

I've had good experiences with AM-Eveningstars, but I not many weapons will do more damage to OOF's than 'Order'. The lajatang beats the javelins of course, higher base damage, some delay, better enchantment.

When you have a great run going, but fail to notice that the ghost camping out on Orc:1 this time has distortion. You have +6 slaying, gloves of +8 strength, good AC; you think you can take it...but it sends you to the abyss on the first hit and of course you fucking die because Abyss is brutal for a fairly low XL character.

I'm just going to play on the least populated server I can find from now on until something is done about player ghosts. It's too bad, because spectators are awesome and a few of them have become good friends of mine, but ghosts make this game *much* more annoying and unplayable than it ever should be and it's beginning to spoil my enthusiasm whenever one appears.

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:I've had good experiences with AM-Eveningstars, but I not many weapons will do more damage to OOF's than 'Order'. The lajatang beats the javelins of course, higher base damage, some delay, better enchantment.

That depends on how much you train throwing. Throwing delay has been nerfed, but the damage has not, and I remember oneshotting an OOF with a silver javelin, admittedly under dith though.

Here is the morgue
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/WingedEspeo ... 055913.txt

I swear, an ancient lich did some humongous damage on me by Force Lancing me back 2-3 squares into a metal wall.

I've seen wind drakes and dragons do some push damage, but this one was huge. I haven't seen so many totally devastating uses of that spell... Couldn't figure out where to get numbers on it, but it was a big dip in the bar, maybe as much as 100? I think.

Fortunately, blinked away onto the opposite side and it didn't get to try it again. :evil:

Is that normal ?

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:
nago wrote:You're playing a TrEE^Oka just because you wanna to play a statue troll, and just after finding statue form in a shop in orc:2 oka gifts that:
Code:
the +10 gold dragon scales "Duat Fea" {rPois rF+ rC+ Str+6 Dex+5 Stlth-}.

Oka just saved you. Gotta have faith!

It's okay to cast statue form and wear GDA at the same time, look, see: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 034745.txt

Granted I only melded a normal GDA, not one with those stats, but hey. Honestly, even I can't remember why I did it.

I believe Tr of Oka cannot do it, not enough XP in 15 rune game.

Finding:

Code:: Level 1 of the Orcish Mines the +11 great mace "Okha" {vamp, Fragile rPois Str+10} (1309 gold) Slime:5 the +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Slay+5}

on a SpEn...

lmao that's a great Fragile

I don't like it when I arrive on V:1 and get the message for a bazaar...

...and have 10 gp on me.

This is a scroll of acquirement!
What kind of item would you like to acquire? (\ to view known items)
Something appears at your feet!
v - an encrusted buckler
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You start putting on your armour.
You continue putting on your encrusted buckler. x4
You finish putting on the -4 buckler of Happiness {rN+ Str+2 Dex-2}.

I have no boots or cloak, and I have two shields in my inventory.

Oh, acquirement.

Getting abyssed as soon as a deep elf demonologist comes into view on the way back up to the main dungeon.

On Orc:2. That you had just fully explored.

The game was going great and then it was just over, not as a result of some sort of mistake that I can discern, but simply because of an extremely unlikely whim of the RNG. I even had MR+ boots on. The character was barachi, so the usual tactic of running like hell from all the horribly dangerous things in Abyss at XL13 was not so effective. I did survive down there longer than expected, but in the end, the RNG again decided that no exit was to appear; the game's over and that's that and there's nothing you can really do about it. I ended up dead to a balrog, just to really drive home how completely screwed I was.

If I hadn't played well over 5000 games and obtained 54 wins over the years, this would be pretty crushing and would certainly leave a bad aftertaste. It's the sort of thing that really shouldn't happen, but very, very occasionally just does.

Oh well! There's always another game for another time.

abyss is pretty unpredictable, so it definitely could have been lethal, but i would guess that you probably could have survived at that level. read teleport preemptively, use god abilities and consumables with abandon, worst case scenario switch to lucy etc.

The thing about switching to Lucy is that I was with Oka; not the easiest wrath to deal with so early in the game. Most probably there was a possible solution for survival in the course of events, but to be honest I'm not particularly great at the game and I do have a tendency to get impatient and flustered in these situations. I remember I used to whine about Abyss in particular here in the Tavern quite a lot until, with advice and encouragement and a lot of funny splats, I got better at surviving it. It's always been a bit of a sore spot for me, haha. Let's just say I don't exactly love it when I get sent there.

There's also an element of randomness to Abyss that makes it all a bit speculative. Sometimes you get an exit out almost as soon as you're sent there. I'm fairly certain I have, in fact, landed with an exit on screen from the start before. I've even happened to end up only a short walk from the rune when banished. Other times, you might have to wander and/or fight for quite a while before salvation appears, and at XL13 your prospects can be pretty grim on that front.

I think autotravel shenanigans in general are pretty nasty feeling, and I still don't know the exact mechanics behind an enemy getting a move on me on the same turn that they come into view like that. Does it have anything do with barachi being slow?

**this advice may be the product of confirmation bias and is not supported by concrete evidence**

awhile ago the devs changed abyss exit generation so that exits spawn when you kill things: "the substance of the abyss twists violently" etc. i believe that when they did this they may have decreased the spawn rate of naturally occurring exit portals.

Blomdor wrote:I still don't know the exact mechanics behind an enemy getting a move on me on the same turn that they come into view like that. Does it have anything do with barachi being slow?

The issue is that you walked into the enemy's los. Yes, moving is more dangerous when your move speed is slow, but this could still have happened if your move speed was fast. If you are standing still when an enemy wanders into view you will (probably: there are factors at play here such as enemy randomization that i do not fully understand) get to take an action before it has a chance to cast spells/etc.

double post

Pearl dragon scales. On D:5. With a draconian.

Nice shop for D:7 except I am SpEn of Dith

raise Str all game and use slings/throwing.

Well, if I wanted to play a slinger, I'd start as Hunter or AM. The character is dead anyway. XL 12, uncannily stealthy (max) and still both Ice Dragons waked up after shadow step in Ice Cave. I had 6 scrolls of blinking but decided to die, I don't like Dith as god for En.

amaril wrote:The issue is that you walked into the enemy's los. Yes, moving is more dangerous when your move speed is slow, but this could still have happened if your move speed was fast. If you are standing still when an enemy wanders into view you will (probably: there are factors at play here such as enemy randomization that i do not fully understand) get to take an action before it has a chance to cast spells/etc.

For fear of putting bad ideas into the public domain, this problem can be dealth with...

One can shout every few steps and then swap weapons until whatever might have heard the shout comes into view. That way the player will get the first move on anything that can banish/paralyse.

Needless to say, that isn't a tactic any sane player could follow for long. A bot on the other hand...

Even though I wouldn't advocate it for permanent play, in locations with dangerous vaults containing enemies dangerous at max range, like Elf 3, this can be entirely reasonable, or even necessary. In Orc though. Meh.

4Hooves2Appendages wrote:One can shout every few steps and then swap weapons until whatever might have heard the shout comes into view. That way the player will get the first move on anything that can banish/paralyse.

I don't see how it is good. Do you one-shot monsters which come into view? I would prefer to have Erolcha sleeping.

Edit. Even if I am in heavy armour, I can lure Erolcha as soon as it notices me so I won't need to fight several monsters simultaneously.

You can then step around a corner and summon some allies, or go invisible, or use Trog's Hand or something.

Except getting lucky with MR+ items or always having allies move in front (extremely tedious, but I do this sometimes), there's no other way to prevent explore banish without player chance to act.

I'm assuming you don't just stroll into the Elf:3 vault. What I'm suggesting, not seriously, is similar to the Elf vault, but it deals with events several orders of magnitude less likely to occur.

Code:: Sigmund and Grinder come into view. Sigmund is wielding a scythe of protection. Sigmund shouts! Grinder shouts!

My life sucks.

For some reason, I cannot start a new game on Berotato. No version seems to work at the moment. : (

Anyone else having issues on that particular server?

EDIT: Thankfully, the problem seems to have been resolved.

Blomdor wrote:For some reason, I cannot start a new game on Berotato. No version seems to work at the moment. : (

Anyone else having issues on that particular server?

EDIT: Thankfully, the problem seems to have been resolved.

berotato ran out of disk space, but johnstein was able to free some up by moving ttyrecs to shallott (the FooTV server).

Code:: As you read the scroll labeled ZITWUN HAOFUCU {!r}, it crumbles to dust. This is a scroll of acquirement! [a] Weapon [b] Armour [c] Jewellery [d] Book [e] Staff [f] Evocables [g] Food [h] Gold What kind of item would you like to acquire? (\ to view known items) Something appears at your feet! B - a runed hand axe

Great, I am still using starting weapon on Lair:5

I don't relish encountering Maurice at all; he's one of those things that has somehow outlived mountain dwarves, high elves, yellow wands, and so many other less pointless and needlessly annoying things for reasons I cannot fathom. But I especially dislike it when I am wielding a weapon of venom, and he survives long enough to teleport away (seriously, why is a creature like this still in the game?) and dies offscreen somewhere where I have previously explored.

So now I have to go hunt down the exact tile where Maurice decided to die to see if his cloak or anything else is worth looking at, or God forbid to retrieve something he's stolen. Wonderful.

I roll a HaSk.
D:1- Kobold drops +1 dagger of draining. Nice!
D:1- Okawaru altar. Nice!!
D:2- Buckler, trained to remove penalty by D:3. Nice!!!
D:4- Amulet of Magic Regen! This round is gonna be great!

5 turns later...

D:4- Steps on a teleport trap.
Lands adjacent to two-headed ogre (on D freaking four).
Reads ?tele.
Miscasts Shroud of Golubria (26% fail).
Dies from full health.

...sometimes the game just hates you.

While frantically test-quaffing your unidentified potions looking for curing or heal wounds, the last one you see before you die is experience.

There is something uniquely painful about it. Potions of experience are so vanishingly rare that they never appear at all in the majority of my won games, as far as I can recall. I generally operate as if they do not exist, and I'd even begun to wonder if they'd been removed in .20. Actually finding one instantly turns the game into something special, worth trying exceptionally hard to keep going, because you know that if you blow it you most probably won't have another chance for a hundred games or more; I don't even know the exact probabilities of finding a potion of experience on the floor in any given area, or the combined probability in a standard three rune game with every floor visited taken into account. It has to be extremely small.

So when this happens it just...it really sucks, man.

An orc warrior, wielding a glaive and wearing a shiny chain mail, on D:2.

Blomdor wrote:While frantically test-quaffing your unidentified potions looking for curing or heal wounds, the last one you see before you die is experience.

There is something uniquely painful about it. Potions of experience are so vanishingly rare that they never appear at all in the majority of my won games, as far as I can recall. I generally operate as if they do not exist, and I'd even begun to wonder if they'd been removed in .20. Actually finding one instantly turns the game into something special, worth trying exceptionally hard to keep going, because you know that if you blow it you most probably won't have another chance for a hundred games or more; I don't even know the exact probabilities of finding a potion of experience on the floor in any given area, or the combined probability in a standard three rune game with every floor visited taken into account. It has to be extremely small.

So when this happens it just...it really sucks, man.

Potions of experience don't give very much xp. Skill experience given by a potion of experience is 250*(your new level), so if you quaffed one at XL5 that's less than a stone giant's worth of XP. XL10, still less than an orb guardian. XL27, still less than one ancient lich.

The variance in monster generation will smooth out your xp quickly enough that experience potions really only make a difference for a short period of time.

duvessa wrote:
Blomdor wrote:While frantically test-quaffing your unidentified potions looking for curing or heal wounds, the last one you see before you die is experience.

There is something uniquely painful about it. Potions of experience are so vanishingly rare that they never appear at all in the majority of my won games, as far as I can recall. I generally operate as if they do not exist, and I'd even begun to wonder if they'd been removed in .20. Actually finding one instantly turns the game into something special, worth trying exceptionally hard to keep going, because you know that if you blow it you most probably won't have another chance for a hundred games or more; I don't even know the exact probabilities of finding a potion of experience on the floor in any given area, or the combined probability in a standard three rune game with every floor visited taken into account. It has to be extremely small.

So when this happens it just...it really sucks, man.
Potions of experience don't give very much xp. Skill experience given by a potion of experience is 250*(your new level), so if you quaffed one at XL5 that's less than a stone giant's worth of XP. XL10, still less than an orb guardian. XL27, still less than one ancient lich.

The variance in monster generation will smooth out your xp quickly enough that experience potions really only make a difference for a short period of time.

Well when you find one on D:1/2 and suddenly you are 3 dungeon levels ahead in your skills is s big difference

Code:: The rust devil is struck by lightning. You kill the rust devil! Qazlal accepts your kill. Your base Armour skill increases to level 3! You hear a shout! x24

Death by firestorm spamming pan lord on the orb run. I dislike the orb run in general more and more with every game, won or lost. It is a trial by RNG at the very last five minutes of the game. Most of the time, it's less trouble than Zot:5. Sometimes, you are opposed by almost absolutely nothing more than a few minor demons and other popcorn. If you're very, very unlucky, however, you will find the most ungodly annoying and dangerous pan lords and major fiends on every last floor, and if you're really miserably unlucky you'll find one that can kill your seemingly invincible, omniresistant, Arga-wielding, slaying-decked monster of a character in a few turns by spamming level 9 spells. Three pips of fire resistance and ludicrous defenses will not save you, because that's how it rolls and too bad for you.

It is really quite infuriating. The next character I get to the same point will quite possibly face *nothing* on the way up. Nothing at all. The RNG shall decree that only quokkas will be sent to bar your escape. It's just some kind of bizarre, randomly determined ritual that every character is forced to face, blessing some and tormenting others without rhyme or reason. It feels god-awful. You get the orb, you make it most of the way out even, but through sheer randomly determined nonsense you just die and "lose" while the next guy who does the exact same thing, the exact same build, the exact same tactics will walk out without any resistance at all, and "win".

Food, ghosts, and the orb run. Three things that prevent Crawl from reaching perfection, IMO.

When you lose a character because the RNG decided that three pips of instadeath resistance was not enough, by which I mean MR because that's essentially what MR is in some cases. In this case I was petrified by an ancient lich on V:5, but it could have been paralysis too.

And your MR rings are extremely boring; just basic ones and one that gives +4 int, whoop-de-doo. You have other rings that do much more interesting things like boost your strength, give you better elemental resistances, give more AC, whatever the case may be, but you are screwed over because three pips just wasn't enough instadeath resistance that day. It usually is, but not today. How dare you wear things that let you kill things faster instead of those MR rings, you fool.

Really makes me realize how freeing an MR++ item can be.

The Tavern

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