EV stepdown got removed!

[le_nerd]

Post your screenshots of disgustingly high EV chars here!

[sanka]

What I would be a little bit more interested in is are there any visible difference between such high EVs? I mean, I can feel a difference going from 20 to 30, and also when going from 30 to 40, but not that much when going from 40 to 50. Is it because almost all monsters has around 5% chance to hit me, which is the minimum? Or are there many monsters when 85 EV is so much better than 40?

[le_nerd]

Good question. Playing around with fsim, against Titan with their 20HD
@50EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,5 |     47 |  94% |   7,1 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,2
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     27,7 |     55 |  31% |   8,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      8,7


@60EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,4 |     43 |  94% |   6,9 |    50  |  2,00 |     13,9
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     27,1 |     55 |  25% |   6,8 |   100  |  1,00 |      6,8


@70EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,6 |     37 |  94% |   7,2 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,4
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     28,0 |     55 |  18% |   5,1 |   100  |  1,00 |      5,1

@80EV:

  Code:

 Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,5 |     43 |  94% |   7,0 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,1
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     28,4 |     55 |  14% |   4,1 |   100  |  1,00 |      4,1


@90EV:

  Code:

  Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,6 |     44 |  94% |   7,2 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,4
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     26,7 |     55 |  12% |   3,2 |   100  |  1,00 |      3,2


If I read this correctly, we get diminishing returns somewhere in the vicinity from 70->80EV.

[Siegurt]

Good question. Playing around with fsim, against Titan with their 20HD
@50EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,5 |     47 |  94% |   7,1 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,2
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     27,7 |     55 |  31% |   8,7 |   100  |  1,00 |      8,7


@60EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,4 |     43 |  94% |   6,9 |    50  |  2,00 |     13,9
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     27,1 |     55 |  25% |   6,8 |   100  |  1,00 |      6,8


@70EV:

  Code:

Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,6 |     37 |  94% |   7,2 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,4
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     28,0 |     55 |  18% |   5,1 |   100  |  1,00 |      5,1

@80EV:

  Code:

 Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,5 |     43 |  94% |   7,0 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,1
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     28,4 |     55 |  14% |   4,1 |   100  |  1,00 |      4,1


@90EV:

  Code:

  Source | AvHitDam | MaxDam |  Acc | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpd | AvEffDam
 Attack: Player |      7,6 |     44 |  94% |   7,2 |    50  |  2,00 |     14,4
 Attack:   Mons | No hits
 Defend: Player | No hits
 Defend:   Mons |     26,7 |     55 |  12% |   3,2 |   100  |  1,00 |      3,2


If I read this correctly, we get diminishing returns somewhere in the vicinity from 70->80EV.

More compactly, the Titan's accuracy goes @50EV:31%->@60EV:25%(-7)->@70EV:18%(-7%)->@80EV:14%(-4%)->@90EV:12%(-2%)

IIRC EV has the largest impact closest to the HD value of the creature (on average), that might be inaccurate.

[le_nerd]

I almost don't dare to post this for fear of nerfs but behold the 143 EV spider. This is on a 'pode with 8EV/Dex rings, maxed dodge, not yet Ring of Hare. Base EV before spider form 97.

[Hellmonk]

balanced

[le_nerd]

At 97EV titan hit chance is 9%, so if we can get devs to remove unfair 5% minimum treshold we are at true to hit of 4%. Seems fine for wearing all dex/EV rings, that is a large penalty. With Chei it'd up again by 30ish or so, 1dex ~ 2EV @27dodge.

[tasonir]

OH SNAP! IT IS ON!

I imagine this will be toned down slightly, but honestly, I don't even think these numbers are that bad as it is. People going with all dex rings on octopodes or felids are going to be extremely EV slanted, and that isn't really how you'd play those characters in general. And most races will have far less. Just more than before!

It was already possible to hit what, at least 80-100AC? There was that embrace armor spell thing that let people hit 400 ac, but we don't talk about that anymore.

[tasonir]

Felid monk of Chei, 98 EV (actual EV, no potions, didn't switch in EV rings, no EV on jewelry at all):

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Tason ... 204201.txt

In fairness, I did find guardian spirit early on, and I wore a ring of magical power pretty much all game for the max HP...but...

Shit's OP yo. Played a felid monk of Chei, trained unarmed/dodging early on, got EV to around 30-35 and started to feel 'safe'. By lair I had around 45, and was able to "tank" hydras pretty safely, I clawed down each one I came across. Around the time I hit 50 EV, I turned off dodging to work on magic and invocations. Got statue form online, and eventually worked on dodging for the late game, reaching 98 EV by the end.

Oh, I clawed Gloorx Vloq at level 24 because I accidentally went into pan when I meant to just go down to depths:4. Pan wasn't even that hard for this character, before level 27. Still felt risky, but it was survivable.

I do think the old stepdown was too much and I'd love to see players be able to get higher EV...But maybe start the stepdown somewhere around 50. I'm not sure we need 90 EV, even if they're felids of Chei.

Monster notes: Orbs of fire still can hit you with fireball, so they're still somewhat threatening. But they miss with bolts of fire quite often, which really lowers their overall dps. Webs in spider form were very noticeable as they half your EV, so I went from around 52 to 27. Entropy weavers were trivial because I didn't depend on my AC to begin with; one took me from 3 ac to -1, and I'm not sure they ever actually hit me to take advantage of it. Clouds, smites, and anything else that doesn't check EV remain big threats.