Species Idea: Anansi


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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 16:56

Species Idea: Anansi

Not to be taken too seriously. It's just a concept, not a real suggestion.

Description
Spoiler: show
Intelligent, humanoid creatures with the body of a spider from the waist down. They are agile and very capable spellcasters, but are frail.


Base Stats and Attributes
Spoiler: show
Size: Hybrid

-20% HP

STR: 6
INT: 10
DEX: 8


Innate Abilities
Spoiler: show
Can shoot webs
Can jump (maximum of 3 spaces)
Cannot wear boots
Naturally good reaction time (gain EV as they grow)
Deformed


Level Bonuses
Spoiler: show
+1 to DEX or INT every 4th level
+5 MR per level
+1 EV every fourth level


Skill Aptitudes
Spoiler: show
Fighting -1
Short Blades -1
Long Blades -1
Axes -2
Maces & Flails -2
Polearms +1
Staves 0
Unarmed Combat -1

Throwing 0
Slings 0
Bows -1
Crossbows -1

Armor -2
Dodging +2
Stealth +2
Shields -2

Spellcasting +2
Conjurations 0
Hexes +1
Charms +1
Summonings +1
Necromancy +2
Translocations 0
Transmutations 0
Fire Magic 0
Ice Magic 0
Air Magic 0
Earth Magic 0
Poison Magic +1

Invocations 0
Evocations 0

Experience 0
Last edited by MisterPersonMan on Thursday, 9th May 2019, 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 17:29

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

It's not a bad concept. The EV bonus is really high, though. Having +9EV by the final level is massive. MR can also be a fixed +5, no need to complicate.

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 17:43

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Is that EV boost more significant than the gargoyle AC boost? All else being equal I'd usually want AC over EV, and a -20% species with gear restrictions and normal move speed wouldn't be too oppressive I suspect.

The jump strikes me as stronger, unless it has an accuracy penalty like the Barachi.
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Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 17:52

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

TheMeInTeam wrote:Is that EV boost more significant than the gargoyle AC boost? All else being equal I'd usually want AC over EV, and a -20% species with gear restrictions and normal move speed wouldn't be too oppressive I suspect.

The jump strikes me as stronger, unless it has an accuracy penalty like the Barachi.


Anansi are almost like a more mobile DE from my view. I see no need to compare AC to EV, all five types of def. stat have their own strengths and weaknesses.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 18:01

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

TheMeInTeam wrote:Is that EV boost more significant than the gargoyle AC boost? All else being equal I'd usually want AC over EV, and a -20% species with gear restrictions and normal move speed wouldn't be too oppressive I suspect.

The jump strikes me as stronger, unless it has an accuracy penalty like the Barachi.


The jump is definitely strong, but that's part of the point of the species. It's a frail spellcaster, but having the ability to shoot webs and jump would be a sort of safety net, as well as having other uses in battle. If the jump had an accuracy penalty, then it would be a much more risky move, therefore taking away from the effect of encouraging slightly more aggressive play.

I did base the amount of EV off of the AC boosts of Naga and Gargoyle; but taking a bit of that away still balances out the jump better, I feel, so I changed it anyway.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 18:53

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Sorcerous wrote:Anansi are almost like a more mobile DE from my view. I see no need to compare AC to EV, all five types of def. stat have their own strengths and weaknesses.


I haven't played much of any DE, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the playstyle of the two would differ a good amount.

My idea was to create a spellcaster that had decent room for error without relying on kiting and luring. The jump and web shooting both have uses for escaping and fighting. (although really, being able to shoot webs more often would probably achieve the same affect)

It has no real focus on Conjuration but no penalty either, (as well as a boost to poison magic because it complements the abilities well) so it could function as a Mr. Shooty-Shoot Man if you wanted it to; but its aptitudes also support a more interesting caster.

The planned outcome was a species that could definitely be played as a simpler caster, but mainly served as a species with the potential to have a more unique style of play.

Of course, the way I put it together could be drastically different to the thing I want it to be. I don't know.
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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 20:29

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

MisterPersonMan wrote:I haven't played much of any DE, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think the playstyle of the two would differ a good amount.

My idea was to create a spellcaster that had decent room for error without relying on kiting and luring. The jump and web shooting both have uses for escaping and fighting. (although really, being able to shoot webs more often would probably achieve the same affect)

It has no real focus on Conjuration but no penalty either, (as well as a boost to poison magic because it complements the abilities well) so it could function as a Mr. Shooty-Shoot Man if you wanted it to; but its aptitudes also support a more interesting caster.

The planned outcome was a species that could definitely be played as a simpler caster, but mainly served as a species with the potential to have a more unique style of play.

Of course, the way I put it together could be drastically different to the thing I want it to be. I don't know.


You're in no way wrong when it comes to playstyle differences - there would be plenty of those. I was thinking of the more basic similarities between the two: good dodging and stealth aptitudes, coupled with poor armour and shields, -20% HP, good casting potential.
The early room for error most casters never really get is very appealing. I'd certainly go in that direction.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 20:40

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

I really like the Anansi folklore, and think it could be incorporated successfully in Crawl as flavour for some kind of enhanced illusion/mobility/stealth archetype.

Stealth play in DCSS is very weak, and adding a species (or god) that does something better than the status quo here would be a welcome addition.

As written, I think the core gimmick of the OP would need to be changed: Jump and Web are problematic. (See the history of player tloc and zombie hands/borg's vile clutch.) If you take those away, this looks like any other small EV species -- not compelling by itself.

I'd look forward to further development around this concept!
Last edited by Implojin on Thursday, 9th May 2019, 21:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 9th May 2019, 21:21

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Implojin wrote:I really like the Anansi folklore, and think it could be incorporated successfully in Crawl as flavour for some kind of enhanced stealth/mobility/illusion archetype.

Stealth play in DCSS is very weak, and adding a species (or god) that does something better than the status quo here would be a welcome addition.


As written, I think the core gimmick of the OP would need to be changed: Jump and Web are problematic. (See the history of player tloc and zombie hands/borg's vile clutch.) If you take those away, this looks like any other small EV species -- not compelling by itself.


I've thought about writing an Anansi-themed god/species for Crawl in the past, but at the time none of the gimmicks I came up with felt satisfactory. (There's also the need to ensure your design doesn't step too far into the space occupied by WJC or Nemelex.)

Another consideration is that Crawl development in recent years has shied away from incorporating real-life myth and religion, for reasons that should be obvious. Whether adapting an Anansi concept for Crawl use would fall under that umbrella would be a question for the devteam, but given that Anansi's thing is to be a part of all stories, maybe it's not a problem. (?)


If that is the case, I'll definitely look into other ways to achieve what I was trying to do with jump/shoot webs. The first thing that comes to mind is giving it an ability that slows the target, while keeping the flavor and calling it "shoot webs" or something of the sort.

Jump's maximum length could also be cut from 3 to 2. I don't know if that would work well, but it'd sure be a blow to its power.

I'll have a go at tweaking it; might even try my hand at coding and playtest it eventually. (Although I suck at this game, so I probably wouldn't be the best candidate for that.)
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Halls Hopper

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Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 00:50

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Here's a slightly different version.

Description
Spoiler: show
Intelligent, humanoid creatures with the body of a spider from the waist down. They are agile and very capable spellcasters, but are frail.


Base Stats and Attributes
Spoiler: show
Size: Hybrid

-20% HP

STR: 6
INT: 10
DEX: 8


Innate Abilities
Spoiler: show
Can shoot webs (causes slow on one target, small chance for paralysis)
Can jump (maximum of 2 spaces)
Cannot wear boots
Naturally good reaction time (gain EV as they grow)
Deformed


Level Bonuses
Spoiler: show
+1 to DEX or INT every 4th level
+5 MR per level
+1 EV every third level


Skill Aptitudes
Spoiler: show
Fighting -1
Short Blades -1
Long Blades -1
Axes -2
Maces & Flails -2
Polearms +1
Staves 0
Unarmed Combat -1

Throwing 0
Slings 0
Bows -1
Crossbows -1

Armor -3
Dodging +2
Stealth +3
Shields -2

Spellcasting +2
Conjurations 0
Hexes +2
Charms +1
Summoning +1
Necromancy +2
Translocations 0
Transmutations 0
Fire Magic 0
Ice Magic -1
Air Magic 0
Earth Magic -1
Poison Magic +2

Invocations 0
Evocations 0

Experience 0
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 02:44

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

better than the god i guess

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Halls Hopper

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Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 18:57

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Here's another different version. I thought about it, and infinite nets on a cooldown doesn't sound that bad to me. Could be wrong, but I do want to give this species a tool to use that isn't just being fast. Also removed jump, because making the webs better with no jump sounded more interesting than balancing the two.

Description
Spoiler: show
Intelligent, humanoid creatures with the body of a spider from the waist down. They are agile and very capable spellcasters, but are frail.


Base Stats and Attributes
Spoiler: show
Size: Hybrid

-20% HP

STR: 6
INT: 10
DEX: 8


Innate Abilities
Spoiler: show
Can shoot webs (essentially throwing nets; increase in durability as XL increases)
Vulnerable to poison
Cannot wear boots
Naturally good reaction time (gain EV as they grow)
Have a decent chance to poison when attacking unarmed
Deformed


Level Bonuses
Spoiler: show
+1 to DEX or INT every 4th level
+5 MR per level
+1 EV every third level


Skill Aptitudes
Spoiler: show
Fighting -1
Short Blades -1
Long Blades -1
Axes -2
Maces & Flails -2
Polearms 0
Staves 0
Unarmed Combat +1

Throwing 0
Slings 0
Bows -1
Crossbows -1

Armor -3
Dodging +2
Stealth +3
Shields -2

Spellcasting +2
Conjurations 0
Hexes +2
Charms +1
Summoning +1
Necromancy +2
Translocations 0
Transmutations 0
Fire Magic 0
Ice Magic -1
Air Magic 0
Earth Magic -1
Poison Magic +2

Invocations 0
Evocations 0

Experience 0


I know I'm posting a lot of these, but I quite like the idea. If I ever code myself a little fork, getting these guys working is going to be on the top of my list of things to do. :)
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Zot Zealot

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Joined: Tuesday, 4th January 2011, 15:03

Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 19:37

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

In crawl the niche of "fragile spellcaster" theme is quite well covered, with really similar aptitudes like the ones proposed.

Poison vulnerability is a very annoying drawback in my experience.

I think it would be more funny if they could wear 3 sets of boots instead of none.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 10th May 2019, 23:54

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

sanka wrote:I think it would be more funny if they could wear 3 sets of boots instead of none.


Barding. Different from the other two barding types, of course.

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 15th May 2019, 21:36

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Innate net ability with cooldown and EV bonus is compelling. Nets rock but you generally only find a couple, so it's a great starting concept. I think heavily slanting the species towards spellcaster with aptitudes isn't necessary, since it's innate traits already slant it towards that path with deformed and -20% hp, so the apts other than Poison could probably be rounded down a little.

Sounds like a fun character to excel at easy earlygame enchanter focus as an alternative to, say, spriggan, but there's room for more uniqueness.

In interest of differentiating it further from the standard spell-y species (in addition to lowering some spelly apts) I'd add Fangs mut and put the poison chance on the auxiliary Fang attack so it can work regardless of weapon. That also adds more depth to builds wanting to swing a weapon apart from just stabbing purposes, building ontop of having big EV and nets. One rank of Shaggy fur is probably appropriate, spiders are often fuzzy things.

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Post Wednesday, 15th May 2019, 23:09

Re: Species Idea: Anansi

Poison vulnerability used to be on Formicid but was removed as a "bad idea":

  Code:
commit fc6d5a5dec65f01f1e3bfbe51bda4e11f6b8dbc2
Author: Chris Campbell <chriscampbell89@gmail.com>
Date:   Sun Feb 23 12:28:35 2014 +0000

    Give Formicids 0 HP, 1 XP apt and remove poison vulnerability

    The poison vulnerability did sometimes encourage unusual equipment choices
    but wasn't very interesting otherwise and was often problematic early on.
    The stasis is their central feature, and giving them more standard HP and
    XP apts lets them be more focused on that.

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