Lair Larrikin
Posts: 27
Joined: Wednesday, 8th March 2017, 14:42
Wednesday, 8th March 2017, 18:22
7 deadly sins, races, related minotaur idea
First off I know this post is dumb. Please don't judge my post on ogres on its basis. Also it's kind of 2 seperate topics, takes a pretty hard shift halfway through.
Greed, lust and envy apply to everyone hounding after the orb, and the contents of an entire dungeon. Greed more for compulsive 15 runers (self explanatory) and lust more for religious 3 runers (orblust). Envy I guess would apply to taking dumb risks to kill uniques for their items, or otherwise making decisions on the basis of 'but I want it'
Pride, wrath, sloth and gluttony are more applicable to the game's races.
barachian: ??
centaur: Lack of pride.
deep dwarf: sloth and pride,sort of. They have so much inertia their their metabolism won't bother to heal them, and they're resistant to all change. (both MR and damage shaving)
deep elves: pride just because they're elves. Incidentally also what's likely to get you killed with their combination of high power and low hp
Demigod: pride obviously
Demonspawn: a bit beyond the mundane seven deadly sins. HERITAGE
Draconian: pride just because they're dragons, sort of. also maybe some wrath for the same reason, depending
Felid: perfect sinless creatures, born with every reason to avoid all four of the big four
Formicid: pride- you're gonna give up blink? Also a bit of sloth but more anti-sloth in universe. So set in place they can't teleport but also industrious workers, being ants
Gargoyle: none applicable afaic see
Ghoul: gluttony. Perhaps to the point of 'lust' in its voraciousness.
halfling: sloth- lore. (in tome4 it would be wrath)
high elf: pride just because they're elves. -Maybe, you could argue that if pride is a sin for a human (debatable, but granting it) it might not be for a high elf
hill orc: pride, wrath. probably both virtues in beogh's eyes
human: 7, 0-7 or none in this game depending on which quip you prefer
kobold: spite? They're described as hateful and seems worth mentioning
merfolk: uh.. pride based on their polearms stat. I bet a merperson looks real snappy standing at arms with their polearm. Who wouldn't succumb?
minotaur: see below for my genius ideas
Mummy: pride for making themselves immortal, sloth from getting used to it
Naga: lazy so and sos are slow in water as well as out of it. The tail is no excuse
Octopode: greed for their acquisitiveness for jewelry
Ogre: sloth obviously. maybe gluttony
spriggan: see felids
Tengu: wrath. birds with a "propensity for violence", and stabbing people with a beak must take a special kind of attitude
vampire: pride maybe, depending on how they became vampires. Also blood-lust, note the hyphen.
Vine stalker: probably pride because they're so cool?
_
/graceful transition
That ends the lighthearted part of this post and now we're onto the deadly serious territory of why minotaurs ought to be have a bit more PRIDE and WRATH like the
goddamn half giant half men they are and never mind all of this earlier nonsense about seven deadly sins who gives a shit a minotaur is a goddamn bull.
/ graceful Interlude
_
Minotaur: WRATH, PRIDE
It's generally considered that minotaurs are somewhat of a no brainer choice if you really want a win, in at least two senses of "no brainer".
Well why not add a 3rd?: what if minotaur strength and skill with weapons comes from their overbearing PRIDE, they're just overlowing with goddamn strength.. holy shit are my muscles really that big? Aha, an enemy.. a CHALLENGE. This deadly situation.. is like like a red flag to a bull!
so to speak.
I am of course talking about mesmerisation. Or something similar.
At the moment minotaurs are general physical combatants who just happen to have horns. Literally, that's the only minotaur-specific thing about them. Step 1: transfer all
other minotaur skills and aptitudes to a new race, which can have one or two similar type quirks, so that minotaurs can be freed up to be minotaurs. Y'know, two handed axes, the works.
Possible recipients for such a transfer:
Genetically/slime engineered warrior (exists only for one purpose, physical combat, is happy doing so).
angel (minotaur invocations score is decent. ('In the greater realm of zot you are somewhat cut off from your god') )
Exiled orc. It's a time honored tradition that an Orc can challenge the king for supremacy at any time. The strongest must lead, so commands beogh. Unfortunately orcs are too fond of fighting, so Beogh also commanded that the loser of any such fight must go into exile. Though not quite as vicious and tough on average as orc kings (or just 'the orc king' ), any orc that dreamed it had a chance is going to be hard as nails and fast as quicksilver. (Cannot worship beogh.)
-or something else combative which can a couple of neat quirks, maybe a bit more than horns and headbutt but while maintaing a focus on general physical combat exactly like minotaur currently has.
Then minotaurs could be a new race built around managing their wrath/pride. Obviously this would need a lot of care, so that they're not a "round corner, oh shit checkmate", class, but I'm sure it could work.
Example ideas:
A charge that can burst through a group of enemies, after which the minotaur has a short period of immunity to mesmerisation, as sending enemies flying has temporarily satisfied its pride.
In a similar vein, the more enemies you've recently fought and defeated, the less subject you are to pride and wrath restrictions and maybe penalties, (discourages meticulous positioning), and perhaps the more combat boosts they have, so they're encouraged to fight all the time. You could even add a turn timer, but that's probably an idea for another game.
Another ability might be 'swallow pride' (with better name obviously), which allows the minotaur to run from a situation at the cost of heavy draining effect (or draining-like). Kind of a panic button like felid's 'die and respawn' except somewhat less harsh, as expected to use more often.
minotaurs might get acute hearing from wandering around echoing labyrinths so much, and have a general idea of where enemies are, that they're obligated to move generally towards.
generally even higher power than they currently have. Having to both move forward, and fight, and move forward in fights, is a pretty harsh restriction. I suppose they'd have to have some resists to the abilities with the most gibbing variance like torment and hellfire, so that they have a chance over time, or at least some way to deal with them.
various abilities to make moving into fights not suicide. I suppose it might also make sense to cut them off from god access, or the abilities could (partially) come from the minotaur god, like orcs with beogh.
High difficulty. Challenge class so they're not crushing a dungeon head on that's meant to be circumnavigated and circumvented. Actually maybe the whole ability focused route is not very roguelike (more TOME4 style, and not even tome4 but tome4 arena) and the managing pride/wrath would be more so.
TL:DR make minotaurs a race that finds it hard to run (probaly not like this though), and move their current role onto a more natural fit, as they have potential themes not being used and don't fit that great with their current one.
Greed, lust and envy apply to everyone hounding after the orb, and the contents of an entire dungeon. Greed more for compulsive 15 runers (self explanatory) and lust more for religious 3 runers (orblust). Envy I guess would apply to taking dumb risks to kill uniques for their items, or otherwise making decisions on the basis of 'but I want it'
Pride, wrath, sloth and gluttony are more applicable to the game's races.
barachian: ??
centaur: Lack of pride.
deep dwarf: sloth and pride,sort of. They have so much inertia their their metabolism won't bother to heal them, and they're resistant to all change. (both MR and damage shaving)
deep elves: pride just because they're elves. Incidentally also what's likely to get you killed with their combination of high power and low hp
Demigod: pride obviously
Demonspawn: a bit beyond the mundane seven deadly sins. HERITAGE
Draconian: pride just because they're dragons, sort of. also maybe some wrath for the same reason, depending
Felid: perfect sinless creatures, born with every reason to avoid all four of the big four
Formicid: pride- you're gonna give up blink? Also a bit of sloth but more anti-sloth in universe. So set in place they can't teleport but also industrious workers, being ants
Gargoyle: none applicable afaic see
Ghoul: gluttony. Perhaps to the point of 'lust' in its voraciousness.
halfling: sloth- lore. (in tome4 it would be wrath)
high elf: pride just because they're elves. -Maybe, you could argue that if pride is a sin for a human (debatable, but granting it) it might not be for a high elf
hill orc: pride, wrath. probably both virtues in beogh's eyes
human: 7, 0-7 or none in this game depending on which quip you prefer
kobold: spite? They're described as hateful and seems worth mentioning
merfolk: uh.. pride based on their polearms stat. I bet a merperson looks real snappy standing at arms with their polearm. Who wouldn't succumb?
minotaur: see below for my genius ideas
Mummy: pride for making themselves immortal, sloth from getting used to it
Naga: lazy so and sos are slow in water as well as out of it. The tail is no excuse
Octopode: greed for their acquisitiveness for jewelry
Ogre: sloth obviously. maybe gluttony
spriggan: see felids
Tengu: wrath. birds with a "propensity for violence", and stabbing people with a beak must take a special kind of attitude
vampire: pride maybe, depending on how they became vampires. Also blood-lust, note the hyphen.
Vine stalker: probably pride because they're so cool?
_
/graceful transition
That ends the lighthearted part of this post and now we're onto the deadly serious territory of why minotaurs ought to be have a bit more PRIDE and WRATH like the
goddamn half giant half men they are and never mind all of this earlier nonsense about seven deadly sins who gives a shit a minotaur is a goddamn bull.
/ graceful Interlude
_
Minotaur: WRATH, PRIDE
It's generally considered that minotaurs are somewhat of a no brainer choice if you really want a win, in at least two senses of "no brainer".
Well why not add a 3rd?: what if minotaur strength and skill with weapons comes from their overbearing PRIDE, they're just overlowing with goddamn strength.. holy shit are my muscles really that big? Aha, an enemy.. a CHALLENGE. This deadly situation.. is like like a red flag to a bull!
so to speak.
I am of course talking about mesmerisation. Or something similar.
At the moment minotaurs are general physical combatants who just happen to have horns. Literally, that's the only minotaur-specific thing about them. Step 1: transfer all
other minotaur skills and aptitudes to a new race, which can have one or two similar type quirks, so that minotaurs can be freed up to be minotaurs. Y'know, two handed axes, the works.
Possible recipients for such a transfer:
Genetically/slime engineered warrior (exists only for one purpose, physical combat, is happy doing so).
angel (minotaur invocations score is decent. ('In the greater realm of zot you are somewhat cut off from your god') )
Exiled orc. It's a time honored tradition that an Orc can challenge the king for supremacy at any time. The strongest must lead, so commands beogh. Unfortunately orcs are too fond of fighting, so Beogh also commanded that the loser of any such fight must go into exile. Though not quite as vicious and tough on average as orc kings (or just 'the orc king' ), any orc that dreamed it had a chance is going to be hard as nails and fast as quicksilver. (Cannot worship beogh.)
-or something else combative which can a couple of neat quirks, maybe a bit more than horns and headbutt but while maintaing a focus on general physical combat exactly like minotaur currently has.
Then minotaurs could be a new race built around managing their wrath/pride. Obviously this would need a lot of care, so that they're not a "round corner, oh shit checkmate", class, but I'm sure it could work.
Example ideas:
A charge that can burst through a group of enemies, after which the minotaur has a short period of immunity to mesmerisation, as sending enemies flying has temporarily satisfied its pride.
In a similar vein, the more enemies you've recently fought and defeated, the less subject you are to pride and wrath restrictions and maybe penalties, (discourages meticulous positioning), and perhaps the more combat boosts they have, so they're encouraged to fight all the time. You could even add a turn timer, but that's probably an idea for another game.
Another ability might be 'swallow pride' (with better name obviously), which allows the minotaur to run from a situation at the cost of heavy draining effect (or draining-like). Kind of a panic button like felid's 'die and respawn' except somewhat less harsh, as expected to use more often.
minotaurs might get acute hearing from wandering around echoing labyrinths so much, and have a general idea of where enemies are, that they're obligated to move generally towards.
generally even higher power than they currently have. Having to both move forward, and fight, and move forward in fights, is a pretty harsh restriction. I suppose they'd have to have some resists to the abilities with the most gibbing variance like torment and hellfire, so that they have a chance over time, or at least some way to deal with them.
various abilities to make moving into fights not suicide. I suppose it might also make sense to cut them off from god access, or the abilities could (partially) come from the minotaur god, like orcs with beogh.
High difficulty. Challenge class so they're not crushing a dungeon head on that's meant to be circumnavigated and circumvented. Actually maybe the whole ability focused route is not very roguelike (more TOME4 style, and not even tome4 but tome4 arena) and the managing pride/wrath would be more so.
TL:DR make minotaurs a race that finds it hard to run (probaly not like this though), and move their current role onto a more natural fit, as they have potential themes not being used and don't fit that great with their current one.
