Swamp Slogger
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Re: feels like alot of indie games are now called roguelikes
A real roguelike definitely has to be turn-based.
P.S. roguelikes are puzzle games
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Arrhythmia wrote:ITT people get really mad about marketing, but no one focuses on the true enemy, Capitalism.
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khalil wrote:Here's the problem no-one here seems to realize: the meaning of words change.
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zrn wrote:Words only "change" because the general public is fucking retarded and they continue misusing words until the true meaning fades away. That doesn't mean the new definition is right. I can't wait until roguelike means just means 'indie game.' Oh wait that's already happening.
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zrn wrote:khalil wrote:Here's the problem no-one here seems to realize: the meaning of words change.
Words only "change" because the general public is fucking retarded and they continue misusing words until the true meaning fades away. That doesn't mean the new definition is right. I can't wait until roguelike means just means 'indie game.' Oh wait that's already happening.
zrn wrote:Words only "change" because the general public is fucking retarded and they continue misusing words until the true meaning fades away. That doesn't mean the new definition is right. I can't wait until roguelike means just means 'indie game.' Oh wait that's already happening.
bcadren wrote:þá wordcwideas áncyne áwendedon...zrn wrote:Words only "change" because the general public is fucking retarded and they continue misusing words until the true meaning fades away. That doesn't mean the new definition is right. I can't wait until roguelike means just means 'indie game.' Oh wait that's already happening.
[I started translating that to 14th century English; but I got tired of it at 'change'...takes too long.] Point is; though, you are wrong there. Meanings change; new words are created, this is normal and over hundreds of years it leads to new languages.
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:If some guy breaks into my house and shoots me, he didn't donate lead to me in a non-traditional manner. He fucking murdered me. Proper language is important, the most important thing in human civilization. I can quote Orwell here if you like.
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:So if I set Smash Bros. to random stage, items on, one stock, it has "heavy rogue-like elements"??? Random loot, random maps, and permadeath, it fits all the criteria!!
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:"Rogue-like elements" is actually code for "I'm too lazy/incompetent to design good levels, so I used procedural level generation because even a flowchart is better than I am at making games". The former is of course better marketing. As a fan of Toejam & Earl, I naturally find this all incredibly hilarious, because it is much more similar to Rogue than any of these bullshit modern games like Binding of Isaac and Spelunky, and ToeJam & Earl has an option to TURN OFF all the randomness!
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:"RPG" is even worse. It's original meaning is entirely lost. Nowadays it literally just means "this game contains upgrades of some kind". An excerpt from Harvard's prestigious game design course:RPG stands for Rocket Propelled Grenade. It is a colloquial term which originated in the FPS genre, appearing in a wide variety of games, such as Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2, Call of Duty Black Ops 2, and Call of Duty Modern Warfare. It's use in describing a game is to refer to the power of the player character's offensive abilities, i.e. "This ability is as powerful as a Rocket Propelled Grenade." Because explosions are entertaining, it is considered advantageous for a game to contain as many "RPG Elements" as possible.
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Binding of Isaac is an action shooter with randomized levels, but that just doesn't sound pretentious enough.
TheDefiniteArticle wrote:Actual roguelikes are typically of high quality. "Metroidvanias" enjoy a similar prestige-by-association (and have the same problem of games that are obviously not Metroidvanias claiming to be). It's not surprising for people to try to hamfistedly shove their game into a particular genre when that genre is associated with excellence in the public perception.
zrn wrote:Words only "change" because the general public is fucking retarded and they continue misusing words until the true meaning fades away. That doesn't mean the new definition is right. I can't wait until roguelike means just means 'indie game.' Oh wait that's already happening.
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Siegurt wrote:With *no* such resistance, languages would rapidly degenerate into unitelligable dialects and we would be unable to communicate at all pretty quickly.
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Shard1697 wrote:do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this assertionSiegurt wrote:With *no* such resistance, languages would rapidly degenerate into unitelligable dialects and we would be unable to communicate at all pretty quickly.
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Siegurt wrote:It is self evident that if each person can make up new meanings for words (and new words) in a completely unrestricted manner, if no information about what the new or old interpretations might be is passed between individuals or groups, eventually two individuals (or groups) are functionally going to be speaking two completely different languages, and be unable to communicate at all in their 'current' dialect.
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neverEnough wrote:BTW, why is DCSS still running on squared grid? Diagonals aren't unfair?
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Arrhythmia wrote:neverEnough wrote:BTW, why is DCSS still running on squared grid? Diagonals aren't unfair?
octagons don't tile the plain
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Siegurt wrote:Shard1697 wrote:do you have any evidence whatsoever to support this assertionSiegurt wrote:With *no* such resistance, languages would rapidly degenerate into unitelligable dialects and we would be unable to communicate at all pretty quickly.
It is self evident that if each person can make up new meanings for words (and new words) in a completely unrestricted manner, if no information about what the new or old interpretations might be is passed between individuals or groups, eventually two individuals (or groups) are functionally going to be speaking two completely different languages, and be unable to communicate at all in their 'current' dialect.
Presuming one belongs to the generation that learns this "new" dialect, and doesn't learn the old one (my stipulation is that no learning about the old words takes place, because there is no linguistic inertia) the only way two individuals could possibly have new words in common is pure chance. Ultimately enough words will be "new" that you won't be able to communicate effectively, at that point we call those things that people are speaking different languages.
In fact that is how our existing languages came to be, two groups evolved language separately with no 'canonical' meaning being shared between them. You could say i have all of the history of the creation of languages as my evidence.
It is even evident when you look at what is ostensibly your own language of you go back far enough.
The fact that we have a common language and can use it to communicate at all is entirely due to us learning a common idea of "what words mean".
My assertion here is both true and mostly a tautology "words only mean something if we agree that they do, and agreement can only come about if you communicate about it" isn't really an argument, so much as an observation.
Also i partially mis-spoke, you can communicate without language of course, i specifically meant "if two dialects evolve distinctly enough you can't use the language to communicate" I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't communicate at all, that would be weird.
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Arrhythmia wrote:neverEnough wrote:BTW, why is DCSS still running on squared grid? Diagonals aren't unfair?
octagons don't tile the plain
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Lasty wrote:I think we can all agree that proper English includes exclusively all the words, definitions, and pronunciations that I grew up with, and that deviation from such reflects very poorly on those who deviate.
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dowan wrote:Why is anyone posting in this thread after Lasty obviously already won it 2 years ago?
Slime Squisher
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Arrhythmia wrote:neverEnough wrote:BTW, why is DCSS still running on squared grid? Diagonals aren't unfair?
octagons don't tile the plain
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Shtopit wrote:BTW, are there some non Euclidean roguelikes?
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Shtopit wrote:BTW, are there some non Euclidean roguelikes?
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duvessa wrote:I think that assessment is misleading: across all 3 Descent games, the only non-Euclidean geometry in the standard levels that I can recall is that secret cube in level 16 of Descent 2 that very slightly overlaps a tunnel.
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n1000 wrote:I've been telling people to play Hyperrogue because it is a non-euclidian roguelike
neverEnough wrote:duvessa wrote:I think that assessment is misleading: across all 3 Descent games, the only non-Euclidean geometry in the standard levels that I can recall is that secret cube in level 16 of Descent 2 that very slightly overlaps a tunnel.
Duvessa you are awesome
Correct, my first answer was too impulsive, it was just an amazing gameplay but coords was pretty euclidean.
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dynast wrote:Wow, that automap font brought back memories i refuse to accept are mine.
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archaeo wrote:tbh, this thread makes me feel a lot better about the 2017 version of the Tavern
That said, I miss you, vengefulcarrot.
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Arrhythmia wrote:archaeo wrote:tbh, this thread makes me feel a lot better about the 2017 version of the Tavern
That said, I miss you, vengefulcarrot.
sic transit gloria mundi
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scorpionwarrior wrote:
Keep on railing against things that you are powerless to change and have been going on since before humanity achieved sentience, I guess.
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