Beastly appendage

[Bloax]

http://anydice.com/program/5943
Currently beastly appendage has a whopping 36.73% chance of actually doing SOMETHING when you attack on a HuTm.
That's really nice considering that spider form has a 100% chance of actually doing something when you attack.
And so does ice form.
And blade hands.
And hydra form.
And statue form.
And even necromutation does what it says on the tin all the time!

But what if instead of 1 level 3 auxiliary, it had 3 auxiliaries - talons, fangs and horns - whose level depended on your spellpower - starting at level 1?
http://anydice.com/program/5944
Holy shit, a 74.68% chance of actually doing something!!

Obviously this is an unacceptable buff to the background that is just about the absolute worst at XL1.
And if you're thinking "but wait, won't 3 auxiliaries make beastly appendage too powerful????"

Let the numbers speak for themselves:

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      3.9 |     12 |      36% |   1.4 |    94  |  1.06 |      1.5
Defending:      2.1 |      5 |      44% |   0.9 |    76  |  1.32 |      1.2

That's a HuTm at 0 experience with horns:1 fangs:1 talons:1

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      3.2 |     11 |      45% |   1.4 |    93  |  1.08 |      1.5
Defending:      2.1 |      5 |      43% |   0.9 |    76  |  1.32 |      1.2

This is a HuMo.
MEGAEDIT: fyi this is a fsim against an adder

I don't care about "oh no but think of the equipment conflicts!!", I don't care about "think of the message spam!", I don't care about "would you PUHLEASE think of the poor racial mutation conflicts".
What I care about is making transmuters have an actually reliably useful starting spell that actually does its job most of the time.
And with a whopping 25% chance to do the absolute definition of nothing three attacks in a row I'd say it kind of doesn't do that at all.

[duvessa]

beastly appendage is already too powerful

[Bloax]

then give transmuter a spell that doesn't suck that isn't too powerful

oh and please explain how a spell that is equivalent to +1 slaying in melee is already too powerful
i'd like to know

[duvessa]

it's free damage for most of the game

[Bloax]

it doesn't stack with any of the other - much more useful - forms in the transmuter book so what exactly is your point

[mps]

How does the average damage of three tier 1 appendages compare to a single tier 3 one?

I think the general concept of making combat outcomes less dependent on the roll of the dice is good and splitting an extra attack into three weaker attacks does a good job of achieving that goal. I don't see a lot of people using beastly appendage throughout the game for "free damage," so I'm pretty sceptical about the claim that it's too good as it stands. There's always the possibility of slightly reducing the damage of tier 1 mutations to bring the damage of Bloax-style beastly appendage more in line with current beastly appendage.

[Bloax]

How does the average damage of three tier 1 appendages compare to a single tier 3 one?

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      2.6 |      8 |      41% |   1.1 |    94  |  1.06 |      1.1
Defending:      2.1 |      5 |      47% |   1.0 |    76  |  1.32 |      1.3

Here's a HuTm without appendage.

  Code:

           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:      4.0 |     16 |      38% |   1.5 |    94  |  1.06 |      1.6
Defending:      2.1 |      5 |      46% |   1.0 |    76  |  1.32 |      1.3

Here it is with the current appendage.

[bcadren]

Duvessa's just being an ass. Beastly App as is...is useless enough to get an amnesia...on d:1. I'd like to go back to it giving Claws 1. +2 Slay on melee hit is weak; but more comparable to other forms. [Actually it's the same DAM boost as Spider form; though that's not much without the venom]. Claws 1 (temporary) melds gloves is a much more helpful spell.

[Bloax]

Claws:1 wouldn't actually help as much as three auxiliaries would, since at least three auxiliaries mean that maybe one of them will hit that god damn adder and finally kill it.
While claws:1 would be pretty much like status-quo except you actually do more damage per punch every time, and I would much prefer the former of these two things.

[bel]

Adders are a pain in the neck. I usually use sticks to snakes on them. Beastly appendage usually is pretty good against other D:1 stuff like kobolds, hobgoblins and geckos.

[mps]

They're talking about removing sticks to snakes. That's how Bloax got talking about this.

And if I understand fsim correctly, Bloax-style beastly appendage does slightly less damage than current, it just does nonzero damage more consistently.

[Bloax]

Yes, although it would be more damage once the spellpower went up.
Nobody uses appendage once they have spider form though, and blade hands is much more worthwhile for increasing your damage output while keeping your gear unmelde than appendage - so it's a nonissue.

[Abominae]

I've always wanted there to be a higher level form in the same vein as Beastly Appendage. Something that melds Gloves, Hats, and Boots and provides level 3 Claws, Hooves, and Horns (maybe Spikes or Bite). Then we can finally get rid of monstrous Demonspawn and all will be well in the world.

[Bloax]

Well honestly then that might as well be power 50 beastly appendage or something like that, it's not like the competition isn't insane (do you know how good transmutations are?) in the field anyhow.

[bel]

They're talking about removing sticks to snakes.

Nobody tells me anything. Where can I find this?

[Bloax]

http://pastebin.com/p2jvME3H
witness the convincing counterarguments

[Magipi]

Wow, sometimes there is actual activity on Crawl chat?

[scorpionwarrior]

I was going to talk about how this spell kinda sucks but apparently horns have a weird stun effect I didnt know about (assuming the wiki isnt totally wrong)

[Berder]

I think it would be good to smooth out the damage by having 3 separate level-1 auxiliaries - but there are races that can't use all appendage slots, such as octopode. Those races should still get 3 levels of whatever is compatible with them. Also, if you're wearing boots, beastly appendage currently doesn't give you hooves, and so on, if I understand that correctly. An altered beastly appendage should still respect equipment slots and give you 3 levels of whatever you can use.