Who likes the starting Summoning spellbook?

[wisp412]

I like the idea of playing a summoner in Crawl, but it seems fairly weak until you get any summon outside of your starting book . First three summons are fine, its the second three I don't like as much. The Lightning Spire summon is OP, but you are also relying on the AI to target things correctly, and there are a variety of situations where its useless. I'm not even sure what the point of summon Guardian Golem is, besides making it explode in the middle of some monsters. Summon Ice Beat is passable until Lair, they are durable, but their damage output doesn't seem to hold up well. So you have a good level three single summon (Hound), two summons that are really only good in very specific situations, and one that falls off pretty hard. You really hope to find another spell book before Lair, otherwise you're branching heavily out of summoning, or even casting all together.

So the summons aren't bad, but any level 5+ summon outclasses them completely (except Summon Forest, which is really hard to use correctly). The amount that a single Monstrous Menagerie or Mana Viper does in comparison to a pack Ice Beasts is kind of incredible (both spells can clear a few levels of the Lair branches by themselves). I'm not really sure if the book should be changed, but it would be nice to have a summon that can be relied on in Lair where you are likely to find your first good spellbook, even if it isn't a summoning book. It would also be nice if Lightning Spire and Guardian Golem were higher level because they are fairly unique and would shine more if they were balanced for a slightly harder part of the game.

So who likes the way that the book is set up? It gets you to Lair very effectively, but other spellbooks get you to Lair, and have good options for Lair itself. Perhaps I'm just not using those niche level 4 spells correctly? Or are you expected to branch out of summoning early?

[Sandman25]

Ice Beasts clear Lair and kill uniques. Don't forget they slow down cold-blooded monsters like Hydra, Black Mamba, Spiny Frog, Blink Frog.

[crate]

yes menagerie is ridiculously absurdly OP, this is true

when you judge the su book compared to non-summons you see that it's quite strong, the only problem is when you compare it to other summons that are way too good

[Rumbleguts]

Like the other starting spellbooks, I have found the Book of Callings to be completely adequate in finishing Lair. I had a character use Ice Beast, Lit Spire, and Golem almost exclusively to clear Lair.

[Lasty]

The Book of Callings is a very effective spellbook, and can without much trouble carry you through Lair/Orc/D:15. It starts to lose a bit of lustre in the Lair branches, but still does good work on a lot of foes.

[archaeo]

I'm an unapologetic summoning fan, and I think the starting book works really well, to the point where it's a solid book start for lots of different character builds.

But, that said, I still haven't ever seen anyone use Guardian Golem super effectively, though I've heard Gammafunk defend it as an ok spell.

[Siegurt]

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble using gg effectively for my summoners, It pretty much seems like it's never worth the mana, I'd rather have another Ice beast most of the time.

If it could be relied upon to explode on death, or somehow wasn't so damn awkward and blew up killing your own summons when you didn't want it to, or did a better job of protecting them, or even if it cost less, it might be decent. But as-is it seems like it's a little too unfocused to do it's job properly, particularly for me to want to train hexes if I don't already have a hex/summon in another book handy (Maybe make it level 4, but summon skill only, then at least it wouldn't be an annoying XP sink)

It's not *awful* but a small push in any given direction would make it a lot more serviceable than it is.

That being said, the rest of the book of calling is super strong and well and away useful for a large chunk of the game, as a starting book it's got enough tools (even without gg) to be successful. The only starting spellbook I think is better is probably the book of frost.

[Sandman25]

The only starting spellbook I think is better is probably the book of frost.

This is weird, book of frost does not have level 5+ spells either. I would even say "any level 5+ Ice/Conjuration spell outclasses them completely". I mean Freezing Cloud (+Air) /Bolt of Ice/Glaciate here of course

[Sar]

Well I like Freeze more than Spammals as well (not sure if it's better as spammals still still have all the Summonings typical perks) and Ozo Armour is pretty ridiculous too.

[gammafunk]

g. golem is a useful spell that I always learn as a summoner, basically in one of two ways. The first is essentially a renewable source of healing for your front-line summons (e.g. ice beasts and canine) that are already positioned optimally. Even though you could recast those summons, keeping them where they are and doing damage a few more turns is preferable to having gaps where enemies can move in to spread out and/or threaten you. In these instances you simply recast g. golem when it becomes inner-flamed since you don't want the explosion. It's overkill for most single enemy fights, but is really nice for fighting lair packs.

The second is when you actually want to set up an explosion for the direct damage and flame clouds. This can be tricky to coordinate, but it's often easier to trigger if you have other (probably heavily damaged) summons around so that the golem gets inner-flamed before they meet with the monster that will trigger the explosion. It's easy for the golem to get taken out before it can explode, especially if it takes damage from multiple enemies at once.

The spell requires a bit of subtlety to use well, but I think it does work pretty well and is certainly worth learning for at least a Su. I could see it being dropped to L3 hexes/summons, but a Su with reasonable apt and int shouldn't have a hard time learning it by early lair. It's usually the spell in Callings I learn last and forget first, but I make good use of it in pretty much every game where I don't find a summons book before my first book gift.

[crate]

I find it a bit surprising you'd forget guardian golem first, since in my experience it's good all game long. It has a lot of hp so it improves the survivability of your summons more than just casting whatever spell again even up to level 6-7 stuff.

I guess menagerie is so overpowered that you don't really need to use golem or anything if you have it though.

[Sprucery]

My MfWn, who started with Corona and used a lot of hexes, used GG along with Summon Mana Vipers. It seemed worthwhile, even though I didn't try to set up explosions at all.

[Jarlyk]

You really hope to find another spell book before Lair, otherwise you're branching heavily out of summoning, or even casting all together.

When I've played summoners, I try to get a weapon skill to min-delay relatively early. I'll get a few weapon levels early (since they're cheap), then focus spell skills until Ice Beast reliable, then train weapon/defenses through Lair. If I find some good higher-level summoning spells, great, but if not, can always do something different. This is how I play most characters now, actually, unless I'm going super heavy into Conjurations to kill things. If Ice Beast and Imp were the only spells in the Callings book, I still think it would be a pretty good book.

[Siegurt]

I guess I don't really need GG very often because my summoners are usually standing in the front line beating on things with a weapon and I use the summons as damage augmentation, I actually go out of the way to draw creatures to me so they don't attack my summons, so they rarely need to heal.

I suppose if I was playing a summoner who used his summons to tank things GG would be more useful.

[PleasingFungus]

I find it a bit surprising you'd forget guardian golem first, since in my experience it's good all game long. It has a lot of hp so it improves the survivability of your summons more than just casting whatever spell again even up to level 6-7 stuff.

I guess menagerie is so overpowered that you don't really need to use golem or anything if you have it though.

I honestly thought it got nerfed at the end of last year but apparently, despite general agreement that it should be nerfed and the exact way in which it should be nerfed, no one actually made the commit

anyway I did it

I hope that brings joy to your blackened heart

[archaeo]

I hope that brings joy to your blackened heart

Yeah, thanks crate.

[wisp412]

I like the summons in the book but, they all feel very niche, and require specific circumstances to be useful. Third spell is a single summon, and that can only be so useful with one summoned at any given time (although there probably should be a higher level singular summon). Fourth and Sixth spells are potentially OP, but are useless in alot of situations. Your Fifth spell is your go to spamming spell, and while it is functional, and with careful play, can get you passed Lair, I would like to have another go to spell in the book. Ice Beasts are also really bad against anything with, you know, fire, which is kind of common. Every 5th+ level spell is also at least twice as good as Ice Beast, except when you want cold damage/ resistance on your summons.

I'm not really saying its a bad book, I'm not even sure if it should be changed, but most starting books seem to try to have two "go to" general purpose spells that can be used in most situations, and the rest can be whatever niche spell.

@PleasingFungus: Thanks for improving summons, I think alot of people just say "They're supposed to be overpowered, so why bother nerfing it.", when they are possible to balance, its just a different playstyle for summoning, so their power needs to feel different. Stabbers can one shot, and confuse/ hex just about anything, its not OP, just a different playstyle, with different strengths, and different weaknesses. I was also referring to every 5th+ level summon when I was referring to them outclassing summon Ice Beast, and I am sure not every 5th+ level summon is OP, just that Ice Beast is below the spell level power curve for summoning. Ice Beast's damage seems to fall of really quickly, I think they just do badly against anything with decent AC.. (Theres no sarcasm in the post, just pointing that out)

@Jarlyk: I usually try to get early weapon levels, but I'll stop around level 5-8 if I find a good book to branch out into. I think summoning is more suited to branching into casting, than into melee.

Also, does anyone mind that at use '@(name):' rather than quotes? Everyone here seems to like multi-quoting so I'll start using that if people prefer reading it (Although I'll need to memorize the code for it).

[Siegurt]

There is a button for quoting in the interface, which is why it is popular (we often use it as "reply"), it also looks nicer, but the format is [ quote="name" ] ..... [/quote] so it isn't hard to remember.

[Sandman25]

Ice Beast's damage seems to fall of really quickly, I think they just do badly against anything with decent AC..

Attack1=5 (hit: cold: 5-14)

I think you don't know that 5-14 ignores AC.

[crate]

the cold damage usually doesnt happen if the initial hit doesn't deal at least 1 damage, though, so saying it ignores AC is a bit misleading

[Sandman25]

the cold damage usually doesnt happen if the initial hit doesn't deal at least 1 damage, though, so saying it ignores AC is a bit misleading

I didn't know it. Thanks!

Edit. I think it is a very bad mechanic which leads to unnecessary damage spikes. I mean with decent AC when fighting Ice Beasts you get 0 damage usually and then suddenly you have "unlucky" hit that deals you 1 damage from normal hit and 14 damage by cold. I would rather prefer it trigger always (probably nerfing the cold damage range somewhat).

[Lasty]

the cold damage usually doesnt happen if the initial hit doesn't deal at least 1 damage, though, so saying it ignores AC is a bit misleading

Yeah, people say AF_COLD damage "ignores AC" a lot, but it'd be much more accurate to say it's super-strongly affected by AC, because if AC blocks the smaller physical damage completely, the cold damage is never applied at all.

It's true that AC isn't applied a second time to the cold damage, but there's no particular reason to think it would be, since the cold damage is part of the same single attack.

So yeah, ice beasts are pretty unlikely to deal much damage to anything with >10 AC. On the other hand, their being vulnerable to fire only really matters against fireball or if you're trying to play a summoner who lets summons do all the tanking, which isn't a good choice IMO.

[wisp412]

the cold damage usually doesnt happen if the initial hit doesn't deal at least 1 damage, though, so saying it ignores AC is a bit misleading

Yeah, people say AF_COLD damage "ignores AC" a lot, but it'd be much more accurate to say it's super-strongly affected by AC, because if AC blocks the smaller physical damage completely, the cold damage is never applied at all.

It's true that AC isn't applied a second time to the cold damage, but there's no particular reason to think it would be, since the cold damage is part of the same single attack.

So yeah, ice beasts are pretty unlikely to deal much damage to anything with >10 AC. On the other hand, their being vulnerable to fire only really matters against fireball or if you're trying to play a summoner who lets summons do all the tanking, which isn't a good choice IMO.

OK, this is literally my main problem with them. Just make their damage consistent, and 80% of my problems with the book are gone! I still think the other two 4th level summons are too niche, and would be more interesting as higher power versions in a different book, but at least I get a summon thats consistent. Now I know why Ice Beats felt so situational before!

[Lasty]

So, I'm looking over the code for this w/ elliptic, and we're actually not seeing any support for the premise that AF_COLD extra damage is negated if the base damage of the attack is absorbed by AC. I'm still looking to confirm, but please note that I may be wrong about this topic.

EDIT: Found confirmation that it DOES work as I described earlier, contrary to what I posted just now. Here's a full list of the AF_ types that DO trigger even when AC reduces all unbranded damage:

flavour == AF_CRUSH
|| flavour == AF_ENGULF
|| flavour == AF_PURE_FIRE
|| flavour == AF_SHADOWSTAB
|| flavour == AF_DROWN
|| flavour == AF_CORRODE
|| flavour == AF_SCARAB;

Note poison, chaos, and acid are all blocked by sufficient AC.

[crate]

EDIT2: Ignore my edit2.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to follow instructions here. Once I've read this I can ignore it but then since I ignore it I should not ignore it which means....

[gammafunk]

OK, this is literally my main problem with them. Just make their damage consistent, and 80% of my problems with the book are gone! I still think the other two 4th level summons are too niche, and would be more interesting as higher power versions in a different book, but at least I get a summon thats consistent. Now I know why Ice Beats felt so situational before!

I didn't read your original post very carefully at first, but the ideas that summon ice beast is not sufficiently strong or is somehow highly situation because not every single melee from an ice beast does cold damage are just incorrect. Those spells in Callings probably seem niche to you because you're trying to use them exclusively rather than in concert. Summons are more effective at doing damage when there are more of them, simply because most monsters can only hit one thing at a time. So if you set up a lightning spire at a good location and create several ice beasts, a canine, etc., you'll find you can easily take down any enemy in lair and deal with most packs all at once. Death yaks and to a lesser extent elephants can overwhelm your summons, but you can either break off enemies from the pack or set up the fight carefully, and g. golem is very helpful for situations like this.

Ice beast is still good in lair branches (they can move through water without hindrance) and is able to kill most enemies, but by then you'll probably enough higher-level summons that are generally more mp-efficient.

[fearitself]

Apologies if this is too much of an asking for advice post but it's about this topic.

I want to like summoners as I feel they are add another style of play. However, when I start one I'll get a little summoning and the work on dodging/weapon/fighting exclusively until I join Sif. My thought is similair to the OP that if I want to reliably get a higher summons by the end of lair I have to "game" Sif.

It's bad play, undertrained skills until Sif, overtrained summons/spellcasting after Sif, and more splats. I feel that if not played this way I end up as a normal hybrid/non-summoner who may win but didn't do it in the playstyle I was looking for.

Help

[Sandman25]

There is no need to rush to high piety with Sif Muna, its best ability is channeling so I suggest to keep training skills in the usual way you do, Sif Muna's gifts are unreliable anyway. You can clear Lair and Orc with starting book and hope to find a good book in the shops.

[Sar]

if I played Summoners with Sif I would probably hate it too

[gammafunk]

Apologies if this is too much of an asking for advice post but it's about this topic.

I want to like summoners as I feel they are add another style of play. However, when I start one I'll get a little summoning and the work on dodging/weapon/fighting exclusively until I join Sif. My thought is similair to the OP that if I want to reliably get a higher summons by the end of lair I have to "game" Sif.

It's bad play, undertrained skills until Sif, overtrained summons/spellcasting after Sif, and more splats. I feel that if not played this way I end up as a normal hybrid/non-summoner who may win but didn't do it in the playstyle I was looking for.

Help

It sounds like you have a particular style of play in mind, and I'm not exactly sure what that is, but I'd recommend against training melee skills on a Su very much pre-lair unless you're going for a god with strong melee support. With Sif piety gain is fast if you're training spellcasting skills at 75%+ of your XP. I try to have summoning near 12 when I become a champion, but if you get summoning at least to 15 before turning it off, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a gift well before you truly need a spell upgrade. If you are going all the way for Dragon's Call, you'll want at least 22 or so summonings anyhow. Early on don't be afraid to use some 0-skill melee with a powerful weapon as soon as you find one, and reach weapon are especially nice as you can direct summons to attack and sneak in some damage behind them. But don't feel like you have to go polearms as the weapon class you actually train, since reach attacks behind allies do terrible damage in comparison.


My pre-lair Su of Sif guide:
Train spellcasting at summoning at equal % initially. I train stealth equally at start, which helps me me surviving when going for low turncount, but stealth isn't required. With care spammals can kill absolutely anything on D:1 and D:2, including D1 gnolls and early Ogres, and spellcasting is very helpful just to get more mp, since spammals are more effective when more are summoned. Definitely use that cap of 4 mammals, but try to minimize noise when you're out of mp, using either an early polearm or throwing stones to direct your summons to attack when issuing tell commands seems risky. Adders are probably the biggest danger when you have only spammals and you want a couple quokkas active to have a good chance to kill one. Learn imp immediately at XL2 and canine immediately at XL3, and use these extensively. Early on casts of imp get mixed in with spammals until you have more mp and canine is reliably castable (right away on many species), and then you'll progress to using mostly imp with canine mixed in, and finally ice beast with canine/spire/g. golem mixed in. The big thing to remember when killing primarily with summons it to try to position so multiple summons hit strong enemies at once, whenever possible. This means use of ta and tf, but also falling back to the right location where you summons can do this effectively. This is the the thing people most often fail to realize. Even if the enemy is already in a corridor, if there's a corner you can use that so two summons hit it instead of one.

I learn ice beast when it's available at XL4 or XL5 and turn on ice, training it until 3 (you can use spire instead, training Air over Ice in the same way). The L4 spells are not safe to cast until the miscast rate dips below 20%, but you can situationally make an ice beast or two at failure rate in the low 20s, especially when something like a centaur or orc warrior is sleeping just out of LOS. I turn off the elemental school at 3 (and stealth at 5, if you're training it), and have summoning focused with spellcasting and invocations unfocused. I turn off invo at 5 as well, but this is again more of a turncount thing because I really need high summoning skill when my first gift arrives. Channel is very effective even at only 5 invo, and you could turn it off around 10 to focus on other skills for a while.

The more "pure summons" you are, the more important it is to keep training spellcasting for MP, spell levels, and spell hunger. That last one might sound silly, but hunger is a much bigger deal if you use channel and high level spells a lot, at least until you find a staff of energy or gourmand. My pure summoners keep training spellcasting unfocused all the way until 18, but if you're going for a character that does a lot more melee, so you can stop in the 12-15 range.

[Lasty]

And if you're not going Sif, training some melee early makes a lot of sense. You still want to get enough Summonings skill that CCF gets you wolves and wargs instead of hounds, of course. Even just 10-12 levels of Summoning can make for a very nice package to combine w/ melee. You can then decide how to evolve the character if you find additional books of magic.

[Sar]

Well you can probably cast all your starting books spells with "only" 10-12 Summoning.

Personally I wouldn't train weapon skill that early with a Su - skill 0 melee is fine as a support option for your amazing spells and it frees XP for defensive skills and Summoning. And I like cool melee weapons and the further in the game I am the bigger the chances I run into something fancy.

There's a time where you need to make that decision regardless of drops, but with a good book like Summonings that time won't come too early.

[Lasty]

Well you can probably cast all your starting books spells with "only" 10-12 Summoning.

Personally I wouldn't train weapon skill that early with a Su - skill 0 melee is fine as a support option for your amazing spells and it frees XP for defensive skills and Summoning. And I like cool melee weapons and the further in the game I am the bigger the chances I run into something fancy.

There's a time where you need to make that decision regardless of drops, but with a good book like Summonings that time won't come too early.

I agree with all of this, with the possible exception of "that early", because I'm not sure exactly what it means. I would probably have non-zero weapon skill before Lair most of the time, but probably not at min delay. But I'm also not speedrunning, so that changes things a lot.

[Sar]

Yeah, I got that and I usually don't train weapon skill until I've gotten a really good one or until I've seen L8 loot. That might be not optimal, though.

[gammafunk]

I don't mean in the context of speedrunning only when I say don't train much melee skill pre-lair, but also for normal runs of Su. But you could certainly start training a weapon skill or dodging when ice beast becomes safely castable, which may be a few levels before lair, or even sooner if you find wizardry. I do think it's better to get the full set of Callings spells reliably castable for lair before training non-magic schools. Nothing says you'll die if you train melee skills very early, of course, and things like finding an outstanding weapon early do happen.

[Siegurt]

I actually focus on melee skills with my summoners first (with 0 summoning aptitude and -1 spellcasting, and 0 XP investment the first 3 levels of spells are castable from level 1)

I find the first 3 levels of summon spells are sufficient to get me to the lair, and melee skills (in particular defensive ones) make me better at surviving than being able to summon a couple more things. I don't usually train *weapon skills* unless I find a really nice one. A +0 short sword at 0 skill and some fighting is sufficient with summoning support to get you to the lair, I find.

I do prefer to have ice beast online once I start on the lair, I don't need it *spammable* but sufficient to summon one or two against the nastier beasts.

[Sar]

When I said I don't train melee skills before Lair I mean weapon skills. I obviously do train defensive skills (usually somewhere after getting hound) and switch between them and Summoning. Defensive skills are very good!

[gammafunk]

Yeah, I'm not implying that defensive skills are bad. With Sif you have mp on demand, so you can pretty much always make another summon, and I think there's less need for e.g. fighting or dodging before lair; I make do with a halberd or trident and my starting dodging skill easily. The book is one of the very strongest starting books overall and accommodates a good range of builds. I play summoners of Sif somewhat occasionally and am pretty comfortable with leaning on the summons to kill everything dangerous.

[Sprucery]

Just to clarify: you all classify fighting as a defensive skill, right?

[Sar]

In this context, yes.

[Sandman25]

I love the thread, it reminds me an old thread where I was blamed for using 0 skill weapon and training Spellcasting in Lair as SpSu. It's great to see so many good players don't train weapon early anymore

[and into]

Note that gamma is specifically making recommendations about building something close to a "pure" summoner, explicitly, and is talking about Su^Sif. (Also note the recommendations for stealth and decent invocations as soon as you can channel.)

I think even for a sif summoner, I would play differently from what gamma recommends, but I don't think his advice (taken as a whole) is unreasonable, at all, and a big part of the differences in how I play vs. what he outlined would be based on game play preferences and not necessarily what is "best."

[Sar]

Except a whip of elec would fall squarely under "this is really cool and I want to use it" for me!

[wisp412]

snip

I didn't read your original post very carefully at first, but the ideas that summon ice beast is not sufficiently strong or is somehow highly situation because not every single melee from an ice beast does cold damage are just incorrect. Those spells in Callings probably seem niche to you because you're trying to use them exclusively rather than in concert. Summons are more effective at doing damage when there are more of them, simply because most monsters can only hit one thing at a time. So if you set up a lightning spire at a good location and create several ice beasts, a canine, etc., you'll find you can easily take down any enemy in lair and deal with most packs all at once. Death yaks and to a lesser extent elephants can overwhelm your summons, but you can either break off enemies from the pack or set up the fight carefully, and g. golem is very helpful for situations like this.

Ice beast is still good in lair branches (they can move through water without hindrance) and is able to kill most enemies, but by then you'll probably enough higher-level summons that are generally more mp-efficient.

You are absolutely right that summons are better when used together. But Lightning Spire,and Guardian Golem seem very hard to use in conjunction with alot of Ice Beast (actually, alot of any summons) and you should almost always have a single Hound/ Wolf. If your Lightning Spire is placed wrong it will either not fire, or it will fire through you or your other summons (I haven't tested the exact behavior of it, but either situation is bad, and Ice Beasts like to get in the way). Guardian Golem seems to die quickly, or blow up on my other summons, although now that I know I can "reset" it by resummoning thats less of an issue. If the other two level 4 summons were easier to use, that would make it easier to use the starting book.

I also never looked at the code for Ice Beasts, its only my intuition that tells me that they do badly against high AC enemies. I also want to point out that I am in the habit of training some weapon skill on any caster, if just to avoid the tedium of killing everything with spells. However, I expect to have to focus on weapon skill on Summoners earlier because I don't expect to be able to be able to deal with every situation in Lair with a Summoner's starting book. I'll usually train fighting skills eventually, regardless of finds. I also want to point out that I am the type of player that intentionally avoids behavior I perceive as bad, such has pulling every single creature to 1v1, or 5v1 in this case, it. That sort of thing seems like gaming the system to me.

[Sar]

I don't expect to be able to be able to deal with every situation in Lair with a Summoner's starting book.

Lair things you probably won't kill with Summonings book: axeRupert,

pulling every single creature to 1v1

That's not "gaming the system", that's "playing the game". That's also probably why you find Summonings to be a bad book (you don't need to do that to every enemy, or every other enemy, maybe not even every tenth enemy, but in some battles it certainly helps).

[wisp412]

I don't expect to be able to be able to deal with every situation in Lair with a Summoner's starting book.

Lair things you probably won't kill with Summonings book: axeRupert,

pulling every single creature to 1v1

That's not "gaming the system", that's "playing the game". That's also probably why you find Summonings to be a bad book (you don't need to do that to every enemy, or every other enemy, maybe not even every tenth enemy, but in some battles it certainly helps).

I might pull an extremely dangerous enemy, because that would make sense from an RP perspective, but my point is that I am not going to do every tedious thing I can possibly can to minimize every risk. If I don't think my character would do something, then I won't do it, if it kills me then I accept that. I would rather RP, then try to win.

And I really don't think its a bad book, I don't even really think it needs to be changed, I just get this feeling that it should be discussed. I started the thread to see if there is a problem with the book, and the only problem I see at the moment is that the spells might be too situational (and maybe the ice brand doesn't work as intended? I don't know enough about Crawl mechanics to be sure), but they are still fun spells that work very well.

[crate]

maybe the ice brand doesn't work as intended?

It's pretty clearly intended, and the devs (well, most of them, anyway) have known how it works for a long time (except that time when it legitimately was bugged and did nothing). That's why pure_fire brand was even created in the first place.

that the spells might be too situational

If you want to make generically-useful summoning spells you need to make them weaker ... this is unfortunately hard to balance just because of how summons work (conjurations are easy: casting a spell twice is exactly twice as good as casting it once. With summons, casting a spell twice is significantly more than twice as effective as casting it once!). So the options for low-level summon spells are "good but sometimes bad" or "generically mediocre". (High-level spells, since they're more powerful, are allowed to be "generically good".)

[Sar]

I would rather RP, then try to win.

So you never eat chunks unless playing a Troll or a Ghoul?

Anyway, if you aren't even playing the game properly it's your choice, but you probably should not make any balance-related statements in that case.

Edit: also, you can always RP a paranoid char if you ever decide to win. "Those yaks look harmless... surely that is but a clever ploy by them to catch me off-guard. Pack splitting, go!"

[bel]

Without knowing anything about a Summoner, except this post, I played a DESu of Sif Muna (I was planning to try one at some point anyway). Spamming Ice beast was ridiculously powerful and cleared even Death Yak packs in Lair (augmented with Guardian Golem). I have not had any other background clear lair so easily (except perhaps MiBe).

It is not clear to me at all what the OP meant about the weakness of the starting book.

In the Lair branches, ice beast seemed a bit underpowered, so I am using Shadow Creatures which gives better results. I have not found any other summoning spell (well, I've found Dragon's Call, but I don't think a Lvl 9 spell is too useful for now). Any suggestions on how to proceed? I got an Elemental Staff with an acquirement, and got a manual of staves in an ice cave, so I trained Staves to 12 and am training evocations.

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-3944-g1fbc3e7 (console) character file.

bel7 the Summoner (Deep Elf Summoner)              Turns: 60215, Time: 13:22:39

Health: 97/97      AC: 19    Str: 12    XL:     16   Next: 22%
Magic:  26/39      EV: 16    Int: 29    God:    Sif Muna [******]
Gold:   3121       SH:  7    Dex: 15    Spells: 12 memorised, 8 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis +     x - +3 staff {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     H - +0 swamp dragon armour
rNeg   + . .     SustAb   .     F - +2 buckler
rPois  +         Gourm    .     p - +0 hat {SInv}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     k - +2 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     Z - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     O - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++++                    C - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR+++}
Stlth  ++........               i - +2 ring of intelligence
                                s - +6 ring of strength

@: almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion


You are on level 5 of the Snake Pit.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 5 branches of the dungeon, and seen 36 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave.

You have collected 4198 gold pieces.
You have spent 1077 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 x - the +3 Elemental Staff (weapon) {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
   (You acquired it on level 2 of the Swamp)   
   
   It affects your AC (+5).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Missiles
 d - 253 stones (quivered)
Armour
 k - a +2 cloak (worn)
 p - a +0 hat of see invisible (worn)
 B - a +0 helmet
 F - a +2 buckler (worn)
 H - a +0 swamp dragon armour (worn)
 O - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 Z - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical staves
 b - an uncursed staff of power
Jewellery
 i - a +2 ring of intelligence (right hand)
 r - an uncursed amulet of regeneration
 s - a +6 ring of strength (left hand)
 C - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR+++}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 I - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 W - an uncursed amulet of warding
Magical devices
 l - a wand of teleportation
 u - a wand of fire (6)
 A - a wand of disintegration
 P - a wand of digging (4)
 X - a wand of cold (7)
Scrolls
 g - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
 m - a scroll labeled STIMER IMAD
 q - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 y - a scroll of summoning
 z - 2 scrolls of blinking
 L - 9 scrolls of remove curse
 M - 7 scrolls of recharging
 S - 3 scrolls of fear
Potions
 e - a potion of might
 f - a potion of cancellation
 j - 5 potions of heal wounds
 o - 2 potions of resistance
 t - 11 potions of curing
 v - 3 potions of restore abilities
 w - a potion of ambrosia
 D - 5 potions of invisibility
Comestibles
 a - 10 poisonous chunks of flesh
 c - 6 bread rations
 h - a beef jerky
 n - 39 fruits
 E - a meat ration


   Skills:
 - Level 9.8 Fighting
   Level 4.5 Long Blades
 + Level 11.9 Staves
 - Level 11.1 Dodging
 - Level 5.4 Stealth
 - Level 5.1 Shields
 - Level 13.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 5.0 Hexes
 - Level 9.4 Charms
 - Level 14.6 Summonings
 - Level 6.4 Translocations
 - Level 5.6 Ice Magic
 - Level 4.3 Air Magic
 - Level 10.1 Invocations
 + Level 5.0 Evocations


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Summon Small Mammal   Summ           ####         0%          1    None
b - Summon Ice Beast      Ice/Summ       ######..     1%          4    None
c - Call Canine Familiar  Summ           #######.     1%          3    None
g - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
i - Call Imp              Summ           #######.     1%          2    None
k - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
o - Ozocubu's Armour      Chrm/Ice       ######..     1%          3    None
s - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          1%          5    #......
w - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ######..     1%          2    None
F - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          3    None
G - Summon Guardian Gole  Hex/Summ       ######..     1%          4    None
L - Summon Lightning Spi  Summ/Air       ######..     1%          4    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:6            Lair (8/8) D:9
  Swamp (4/5) Lair:5        Snake (5/5) Lair:5        Slime (0/6) Lair:8
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:4        Vaults (0/5) D:14
Depths: D:15       

Altars:
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:2 *   Orc:1 ?   Orc:4 %}}(   Snake:1 (   Snake:5 !

Annotations:
D:12 exclusion: downstairs
Lair:5 exclusion: downstairs
Lair:8 exclusion: ice statue
Swamp:4 Jorgrun
Snake:2 exclusions: 4 doors and 1 more exclusion
Snake:3 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Orc:3 exclusion: downstairs

Message History

Your guardian serpent dissolves into shadows!
Your ice beast disappears in a puff of smoke!
L - 9 scrolls of remove curse (gained 1)
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
Your guardian golem disappears in a puff of smoke!
There is an entrance to Shille's Distillery here.
j - 3 potions of heal wounds (gained 1); t - 11 potions of curing (gained 1)
j - 4 potions of heal wounds (gained 1)
j - 5 potions of heal wounds (gained 1)
Thank you for shopping at Shille's Distillery!
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.
Unknown command.

*****,*#..**
,,,,,,,#..*
,,,,,,*#.#*     *##
,,,,,,*#.##    *#.#
,,,,,,,#..### ##..#
,,,,,,##....###..#*
,,,#+##.........##
####.............##
...............≈.≈##
.[..[...).....≈S.≈≈#
..............≈≈@≈≈#
..............≈≈≈≈≈#
.......).......≈≈≈.#
.....).)...........#
.........#........##
.........###......#
##.###...# ##.##..#
*#.# ###.#* #.###.#
*.##   *#.# *** *.*
##*     *##     ***


You can see a friendly black mamba.

Vanquished Creatures
  2 blizzard demons (IceCv)
  An alligator (Swamp:3)
  An ice statue (IceCv)
  An ice beast (IceCv)
  A baby alligator (Swamp:2)
  A raven (D:13)
  3 insubstantial wisps
  A water moccasin (Lair:5)
  2 iron troll simulacra (IceCv)
  An ettin simulacrum (IceCv)
  A spriggan simulacrum (IceCv)
  A river rat (Lair:2)
  An adder (D:3)
  2 orcs
  A bat zombie (D:5)
  4 goblins
  A hobgoblin (D:1)
  A kobold (D:1)
  A quokka (Lair:5)
  4 bats
  A giant cockroach (D:2)
  A giant newt (D:5)
  4 rats
  A fungus (Lair:5)
38 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  Nikola (Snake:4)
  2 thorn hunters (Swamp:4)
  The ghost of Mousus6 the Stormcaller, a powerful HEAE of Vehumet (Snake:2)
  A greater naga (Snake:3)
  Donald (Swamp:3)
  Wiglaf (Swamp:3)
  Louise (D:14)
  An orc warlord (Orc:4)
  A death ooze (Lair:8)
  Snorg (Swamp:4)
  The ghost of Thorbinator the Devastator, a powerful DECj of Ru (Swamp:3)
  Josephine (D:10)
  A fire dragon (D:11)
  Harold (Lair:5)
  15 hydras
  10 naga warriors
  2 centaur warriors (D:14)
  7 anacondas
  8 alligators
  27 death yaks
  5 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  A deep troll shaman (Lair:8)
  2 shock serpents (Snake:2)
  2 tengu warriors (D:13)
  9 naga sharpshooters
  Nergalle (D:13)
  A deep elf knight (D:14)
  2 catoblepae (Lair:8)
  4 salamander mystics
  3 swamp dragons
  The ghost of Kenreth the Caller, an experienced HESu of Cheibriados (D:8)
  An ice devil (IceCv)
  An unseen horror (D:12)
  A wizard (D:15)
  A naga ritualist (Snake:4)
  8 hill giants
  4 ugly things
  4 manticores
  4 mana vipers
  A hornet (Swamp:1)
  17 salamanders
  3 griffons
  5 orc knights
  5 oklob plants
  6 orc sorcerers
  16 black mambas
  5 guardian serpents
  46 elephants
  7 cyclopes
  2 centaur zombies
  9 naga magi
  2 small abominations (D:14)
  28 spiny frogs
  A guardian golem (Swamp:3)
  An orange demon (Orc:4)
  2 gargoyles
  Psyche (Orc:2)
  3 anaconda simulacra (IceCv)
  An efreet (D:13)
  9 komodo dragons
  A kobold demonologist (D:14)
  A fire drake (Lair:8)
  10 trolls
  2 deep elf priests
  8 two-headed ogres
  A blue devil (Lair:8)
  A golden dragon simulacrum (IceCv)
  3 freezing wraiths (IceCv)
  A queen bee (D:14)
  5 giant leeches
  9 baby alligators
  4 polar bears
  2 tengu conjurers
  Grinder (D:3)
  25 blink frogs
  4 bog bodies
  3 centaur simulacra
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  8 ravens
  18 slime creatures
  2 trapdoor spiders
  3 spriggans
  4 basilisks
  7 wraiths
  79 yaks
  A deep elf mage (D:13)
  A death yak simulacrum (IceCv)
  A shadow (Swamp:3)
  4 dire elephant simulacra (IceCv)
  A steam dragon (D:10)
  15 vampire mosquitoes
  4 hungry ghosts
  3 wyverns (D:9)
  2 fire elementals
  14 hippogriffs
  2 deep elf fighters (D:14)
  2 mottled dragons
  20 swamp worms
  2 harpy simulacra (IceCv)
  4 humans (D:12)
  42 nagas
  6 wolves (Lair:8)
  16 insubstantial wisps
  A soldier ant (D:10)
  12 wargs
  A hydra simulacrum (IceCv)
  18 porcupines
  4 sky beasts
  11 swamp drakes
  27 water moccasins
  5 wasps
  17 ogres
  2 black bears
  2 boring beetles (Lair:7)
  A lightning spire (Lair:8)
  49 orc warriors
  39 ice beasts
  2 phantoms
  An eye of draining (D:11)
  14 centaurs
  22 crocodiles
  A brain worm (Lair:6)
  5 big kobolds
  28 giant frogs
  A wyvern skeleton (D:14)
  A wyvern zombie (D:11)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:13)
  5 scorpions
  41 killer bees
  7 electric eels
  2 quasits
  8 wights
  2 goliath beetles
  A vampire bat (Lair:7)
  8 jellies
  5 crimson imps
  6 draconian simulacra (IceCv)
  5 giant frog skeletons
  A gnoll shaman (Orc:4)
  2 centaur skeletons
  5 lava snakes
  12 hounds
  13 iguanas
  A giant frog zombie (D:13)
  39 orc priests
  13 worker ants
  3 wolf simulacra (IceCv)
  31 sheep
  3 troll simulacra (IceCv)
  42 orc wizards
  3 spriggan simulacra (IceCv)
  A killer bee zombie (D:9)
  Ijyb (D:6)
  A hound skeleton (D:6)
  A hound zombie (D:5)
  A mummy (D:11)
  A worker ant zombie (D:7)
  2 ogre simulacra (IceCv)
  23 adders
  17 gnolls
  10 shadow imps
  3 naga simulacra (IceCv)
  71 river rats
  2 giant mites
  4 white imps
  3 worms
  3 ufetubi (IceCv)
  3 adder zombies
  An ooze (D:2)
  303 orcs
  21 bats
  A bat skeleton (D:5)
  4 giant cockroaches
  18 hobgoblins
  8 jackals
  17 kobolds
  16 quokkas
  8 giant geckos
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:7)
  3 giant newts
  35 goblins
  A goblin skeleton (D:6)
  2 goblin zombies (D:6)
  2 hobgoblin zombies (D:6)
  2 kobold skeletons (D:6)
  A kobold zombie (D:6)
  3 orc skeletons
  3 orc zombies (Orc:4)
  17 rats
  A spectral orc (D:13)
  3 ballistomycetes (D:6)
  2 fungi
  5 plants (Lair:8)
1800 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hydra (Swamp:3)
  A centaur warrior (D:12)
  An orc high priest (Orc:4)
  4 shock serpents
  3 ice devils (IceCv)
  A swamp dragon (Swamp:4)
  A guardian serpent (Snake:5)
  9 black mambas
  2 naga magi
  A komodo dragon (Swamp:4)
  A golden dragon simulacrum (IceCv)
  A hellwing (Orc:4)
  2 ravens (Swamp:4)
  56 guardian golems
  A bog body (Swamp:4)
  A slime creature (Swamp:3)
  A trapdoor spider zombie (D:14)
  3 humans (D:12)
  3 shadows
  318 ice beasts
  A vampire mosquito (Swamp:4)
  68 wargs
  7 nagas
  8 wolves
  8 water moccasins
  A sky beast (D:13)
  3 swamp drakes
  3 ogres
  A boggart (D:14)
  An orc warrior (D:13)
  2 centaurs (D:15)
  A giant frog (D:14)
  22 crimson imps
  An orc priest (Orc:1)
  7 iron imps
  An orc wizard (Orc:3)
  A worker ant (D:12)
  13 hounds
  A troll simulacrum (IceCv)
  49 lightning spires
  A wolf simulacrum (IceCv)
  2 sheep (D:12)
  A centaur simulacrum (IceCv)
  15 shadow imps
  3 ufetubi (IceCv)
  26 white imps
  2 orc zombies (Orc:4)
  12 orcs
  28 bats
  2 hobgoblins (Orc:2)
  40 quokkas
  A giant spore (D:6)
  20 rats
  4 briar patches (Swamp:4)
  10 fungi
  3 plants
780 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2618 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | bel7, the Deep Elf Summoner, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 5/5
   617 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 4/8
   850 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp
  1691 | D:2      | Found Zin's Purification Station.
  1693 | D:2      | Found a glowing silver altar of Zin.
  2059 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 9/11
  2068 | D:2      | Learned a level 3 spell: Call Canine Familiar
  2905 | D:3      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3173 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Summonings
  3223 | D:3      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 24/24 MP: 12/15
  3353 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  3381 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 6 turns
  3418 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  3418 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
  3418 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 19/28 MP: 0/19
  3968 | D:3      | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Ice Beast
  4686 | D:4      | Noticed a phantom
  4716 | D:4      | Killed a phantom
  5014 | D:4      | Reached skill level 1 in Ice Magic
  5014 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 16/21
  5499 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  5524 | D:4      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  5858 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Summonings
  6357 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  6712 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 17/24
  7117 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  7123 | D:5      | Became a worshipper of Sif Muna the Loreminder
  7515 | D:5      | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Lightning Spire
  7647 | D:6      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  7819 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  7837 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Invocations
  7858 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Spellcasting
  7888 | D:6      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  7937 | D:6      | Noticed Ijyb
  7951 | D:6      | Killed Ijyb
  8028 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic
  8088 | D:6      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  8429 | D:6      | Acquired Sif Muna's first power
  9001 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  9009 | D:6      | Learned a level 4 spell: Summon Guardian Golem
  9134 | D:7      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9176 | D:7      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  9315 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 41/41 MP: 20/26
  9351 | D:7      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
 10241 | D:7      | Reached skill level 1 in Fighting
 11184 | D:8      | Noticed Kenreth's ghost (experienced HESu)
 11190 | D:8      | Killed Kenreth's ghost
 11190 | D:8      | Reached skill level 8 in Summonings
 11474 | D:8      | Noticed a deep elf priest
 11491 | D:8      | Killed a deep elf priest
 11568 | D:8      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
 11751 | D:9      | Acquired Sif Muna's second power
 11751 | D:9      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 48/48 MP: 16/28
 12086 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 12092 | D:9      | Reached skill level 9 in Summonings
 12289 | D:9      | Noticed a troll
 12310 | D:9      | Killed a troll
 12310 | D:9      | Reached skill level 1 in Hexes
 12317 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
 12413 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Invocations
 12877 | D:9      | Noticed a troll
 12885 | D:9      | Killed a troll
 12910 | D:9      | Noticed a troll
 12914 | D:9      | Killed a troll
 12914 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 55/55 MP: 20/30
 13345 | D:9      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
 13567 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 13567 | Lair:1   | Noticed an oklob plant
 13638 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Summonings
 14131 | Lair:1   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 14160 | Lair:1   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 14211 | Lair:1   | Noticed a seven-headed hydra
 14244 | Lair:1   | Killed a seven-headed hydra
 14374 | Lair:1   | Acquired Sif Muna's third power
 14883 | Lair:1   | Noticed a black mamba
 14894 | Lair:1   | Killed a black mamba
 14997 | Lair:1   | Killed an oklob plant
 15357 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Hexes
 15514 | Lair:2   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 15524 | Lair:2   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 15955 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 10 in Spellcasting
 16039 | Lair:2   | Reached XP level 11. HP: 62/62 MP: 28/32
 16205 | Lair:3   | Found a dark tunnel.
 16374 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 11 in Summonings
 16415 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
 18871 | Lair:5   | Noticed Harold
 18946 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 19070 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 12 in Summonings
 19313 | Lair:5   | Killed Harold
 19390 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 19544 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit.
 20242 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 71/71 MP: 31/34
 20510 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 20516 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 20569 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 20571 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 20582 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 20594 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 20610 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 20614 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 22405 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 22633 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 22654 | Lair:8   | Identified Voohetonir's Collected Works on the Feathery Oath (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 22659 | Lair:8   | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight
 22693 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 5 in Ice Magic
 22775 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 1 in Charms
 22814 | Lair:8   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 22940 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 13 in Summonings
 23258 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 78/78 MP: 28/35
 23333 | Lair:8   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 23343 | Lair:8   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 24129 | Lair:8   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 24137 | Lair:8   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 24176 | Lair:8   | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
 24178 | Lair:8   | Learned a level 1 spell: Apportation
 25286 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 25492 | D:10     | Noticed Josephine
 25508 | D:10     | Killed Josephine
 26211 | D:10     | Got an encrusted flail
 26212 | D:10     | Identified the +8 flail of Balance {crush, rN++ Str+3} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 26360 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Translocations
 28426 | D:12     | Learned a level 5 spell: Shadow Creatures
 28476 | D:12     | Reached skill level 5 in Charms
 28569 | D:12     | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 28594 | D:12     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 29371 | D:12     | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 29431 | D:12     | Learned a level 3 spell: Ozocubu's Armour
 30762 | Lair:8   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 79/84 MP: 36/36
 31467 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 31811 | Orc:1    | Found Ahoextyv's Magic Scroll Shop.
 31898 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of silence for 97 gold pieces
 31900 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of fear for 45 gold pieces
 31900 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of fear for 45 gold pieces
 32523 | Orc:2    | Noticed Psyche
 32569 | Orc:2    | Killed Psyche
 34024 | Orc:3    | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 34186 | Orc:1    | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 34217 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 35406 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 35990 | Orc:4    | Found Jowky's Antique Weapon Boutique.
 36095 | Orc:4    | Found Brao's Gadget Shop.
 37458 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 37848 | Orc:4    | Noticed an orc warlord
 37878 | Orc:4    | Killed an orc warlord
 37979 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 38140 | Orc:4    | Found Panluat's Food Shop.
 38211 | Orc:4    | Found Caim's Gadget Boutique.
 38262 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 1 in Long Blades
 39085 | D:13     | Noticed Nergalle
 39597 | D:13     | Reached skill level 14 in Summonings
 39788 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 40436 | D:13     | Killed Nergalle
 40938 | D:14     | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 40938 | D:14     | Reached skill level 5 in Translocations
 40979 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 41675 | D:14     | Noticed Louise
 41946 | D:14     | Killed Louise
 42253 | D:14     | Reached skill level 10 in Invocations
 42282 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 43241 | Snake:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Snake Pit
 43627 | Snake:1  | Received a gift from Sif Muna
 43632 | Snake:1  | Identified Sif Muna's Guide on Hurtful Weightlessness (Sif Muna gifted it to you on level 1 of the Snake Pit)
 43811 | Snake:1  | Found Prexketu's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 43883 | Snake:1  | Bought an encrusted morningstar for 225 gold pieces
 43883 | Snake:1  | Identified the +7 morningstar "Hesiutt" {freeze, rElec MR+ Str+3 Int+3} (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Snake Pit)
 44264 | Orc:4    | Bought a translucent morningstar for 387 gold pieces
 44264 | Orc:4    | Identified the cursed -2 morningstar "Skoil" {elec, rElec rF+ rC+ MR+ Str-4} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 44270 | Orc:4    | Learned a level 2 spell: Swiftness
 44780 | Snake:2  | Noticed Mousus6's ghost (powerful HEAE)
 45134 | Snake:2  | Killed Mousus6's ghost
 45134 | Snake:2  | Reached XP level 15. HP: 66/92 MP: 21/38
 46226 | Snake:3  | Identified the Volume of Sinister Self-Improvement
 47278 | Snake:4  | Noticed Nikola
 47788 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 49100 | Swamp:2  | Found a frozen archway.
 49113 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 52081 | IceCv    | Got a dull robe
 52563 | IceCv    | Identified the +0 robe of Hospitality {rElec Str+5} (You found it in an ice cave)
 53743 | IceCv    | Identified the Disquisition on the Frostbite and Evil Magic
 54909 | Swamp:2  | Reached skill level 1 in Staves
 55474 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Thorbinator's ghost (powerful DECj)
 55486 | Swamp:3  | Killed Thorbinator's ghost
 55821 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Wiglaf
 55860 | Swamp:3  | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
 56386 | Swamp:3  | Killed Wiglaf
 56828 | Swamp:3  | Noticed Donald
 56907 | Swamp:3  | Killed Donald
 57476 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Snorg
 57485 | Swamp:4  | Killed Snorg
 57488 | Swamp:4  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 57550 | Swamp:4  | Killed a thorn hunter
 57885 | Swamp:4  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 58040 | Swamp:4  | Killed a thorn hunter
 58040 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
 58576 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Jorgrun
 59052 | Snake:4  | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 59052 | Snake:4  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 91/97 MP: 20/39
 59335 | Snake:4  | Killed Nikola
 60040 | Snake:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Snake Pit
 60185 | Snake:5  | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 60200 | Snake:5  | Found Shille's Distillery.
 60215 | Snake:5  | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces
 60215 | Snake:5  | Bought a potion of curing for 42 gold pieces
 60215 | Snake:5  | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces
 60215 | Snake:5  | Bought a potion of heal wounds for 70 gold pieces


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    68 |     8 |     4 |     2 |       |       ||    82
       Trident           |       |       |    17 |       |       |       ||    17
       Staff             |       |       |       |    13 |   144 |     1 ||   158
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |       |    35 |       ||    35
       Morningstar       |       |       |       |       |    33 |       ||    33
 Fire: Hunting sling     |       |     6 |       |       |       |       ||     6
Throw: Stone             |     9 |    19 |    81 |    71 |   175 |     4 ||   359
 Cast: Summon Small Mamm |    82 |   117 |    61 |     4 |     2 |       ||   266
       Call Imp          |    10 |    15 |    34 |    63 |    44 |       ||   166
       Call Canine Famil |       |    31 |    32 |    47 |   105 |     1 ||   216
       Summon Ice Beast  |       |       |    61 |   281 |  1044 |    23 ||  1409
       Summon Lightning  |       |       |    23 |    69 |   227 |     4 ||   323
       Summon Guardian G |       |       |       |    18 |   129 |    12 ||   159
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |    22 |       ||    22
       Flight            |       |       |       |       |    16 |       ||    16
       Shadow Creatures  |       |       |       |       |    97 |    33 ||   130
       Ozocubu's Armour  |       |       |       |       |    88 |       ||    88
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |    47 |       ||    47
Invok: Channel Energy    |       |       |     2 |   100 |   556 |    75 ||   733
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |       |       |    31 |       ||    31
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     3 |     7 |     5 |    45 |     1 ||    67
       Potion            |       |       |       |       |     7 |     1 ||     8
 Stab: Distracted        |     1 |       |       |       |     6 |       ||     7
  Eat: Chunk             |     7 |    12 |    19 |    46 |   147 |    12 ||   243
       Bread ration      |       |       |     1 |       |    10 |       ||    11
       Fruit             |       |       |       |     1 |     7 |       ||     8
       Beef jerky        |       |       |       |       |     2 |       ||     2



[duvessa]

Has anyone else noticed ice beasts doing less damage than normal in the latest trunk?

Seriously, they can hardly hurt high-AC enemies anymore. Summon Ice Beast is now near-useless as an anti-hydra and anti-bee weapon now, and it's easily outperformed by CCF.