Xom makes me salty


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Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 21st November 2014, 23:28

Xom makes me salty

/rant

Yeah I'd rather worship a god who doesn't actively try to kill me, especially in a game where everything already tries to kill me. Actively.
And don't tell me that he/she/it will not kill you, I know, you know, we all know It WILL kill you.

/rant

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 21st November 2014, 23:31

Re: Xom makes me salty

Well, the point of Xom is to have fun. Also to make playing powerful combos somewhat challenging for experienced players.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Saturday, 22nd November 2014, 10:07

Re: Xom makes me salty

Sandman25 wrote:Well, the point of Xom is to have fun. Also to make playing powerful combos somewhat challenging for experienced players.

I have to add that "having fun" is subjective, varies from person to person. For a lot of players, it is fun if your god is actively trying to kill you (and succeeds most of the time). For me it isn't, therefore I don't play Xom games.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 22nd November 2014, 18:35

Re: Xom makes me salty

Most of really scary Xom effects were either removed or diluted - you no longer can get a reaper next to you on D5 or so, or a sun demon on D3 (I believe). He's the god to play with if you want to get a lot of positive mutations (he's more reliable in that regard than Jiyva!). His deadliness is overstated (but you probably do want to play a strong race).

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Bloax

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Post Saturday, 22nd November 2014, 22:58

Re: Xom makes me salty

I got a Tengu Chaos Knight all the way to Vaults:4 a few days ago, when Xom decided to switch my +8 randart Chaos Dagger (which was a Xom gift earlier) with Saint Roka's cursed -2 Longsword, and then teleport me across the dungeon into a vault filled with Giants and Tengu Reavers a few turns later.

Thing is I STILL could have likely prevented that death, AND gone to get my dagger back. But instead I let myself get angry about it. Not the way to win Crawl. :(

Since then I've been playing more Xom characters; not necessarily Chaos Knight, actually TeFE of Xom feels pretty good.

God DAMN, you should see some of my mutation lists! I have had close to TWENTY good mutations on some Xom characters, all of them gifts.

If players are serious about playing Xom, I'd usually not recommend Chaos Knight as the starting class; other classes can pick Xom at an altar using a class with superior "killdudes power" already. If you want that starting chaos brand weapon, Chaos Knight may be viable if you're playing a stabber character such as a Spriggan, selecting the Shortsword to start.

Also, Longbows or Arbalests (or Triple Crossbows) of Chaos are glorious weapons. The heavy bonus damage from randomized brands such as Electric or Distortion at a far distance is exclusive, being able to confuse or petrify your enemies before they get to you is a huge relief, and when you get the "iffy" effects such as berserk or duplication, they're too far away from you for it to be worth outright panicking over. I've also seen some special effects that only chaos launchers can inflict, such as spider-webbing the target. Some people play Xom just for the chance to get an amazing chaos launcher. But there are other reasons to play Xom too, such as huge lists of great mutations, or being bailed out of nasty situations (half the time; the other half would be made worse by Xom's power, but since these are situations where you'd have an escape plan ready anyway, what's really so different?), or just for having fun as someone else said. But not every character can benefit from Xom, and not every player can either.

Giant Spiked Clubs of Chaos are amazing too, and I do see a good number of Ogre Chaos Knights being played. There's another one.
--Schwa, your local muse forever and long-time High Elf fangirl ^_~
(also the master of Quadri-Birds)

TheProvocateur: I like how we're sprinting at a pile of greater mummies

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Spider Stomper

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 06:15

Re: Xom makes me salty

SchwaWarrior wrote: If you want that starting chaos brand weapon, Chaos Knight may be viable if you're playing a stabber character such as a Spriggan, selecting the Shortsword to start.

I've been playing Chaos Knights much more lately but I'm not experienced enough yet to determine which are good CK combos.
During the character creation screen, the 7 "viable" CKs are the following species: Hill Orc, Troll, Centaur, Merfolk, Minotaur, Draconian, and Demonspawn.
My initial take on who made the "viable" list is that it has to be a species strong enough to be able to survive Xom's indirect damage.
So I'm surprised to see a suggestion for a top CK choice as a Spriggan. I'll have to give that a try!!! Thanks for sharing :D

I'm now left wondering if there are any other CK combos that should be on the "viable" list?
And are there any who should be taken off that list?

Halls Hopper

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 08:44

Re: Xom makes me salty

If you are getting salty worshipping Xom you are picking the wrong God.

I occasionally do Xom runs when I burn out of whatever I'm doing at the time. [Usually some form of mage]

It never LASTS long but it's amusing.

Although I guess it could be amusing to start with Oka to get through the earlygame and to get shiny weapons and armor, then switch to Xom when you can survive Oka's wrath and start amassing good mutations and such.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 12:24

Re: Xom makes me salty

Sar wrote:Most of really scary Xom effects were either removed or diluted - you no longer can get a reaper next to you on D5 or so, or a sun demon on D3 (I believe).


  Code:
  3105 | D:3      | XOM: summons 3 hostile demons
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a sun demon
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a ynoxinul
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a ynoxinul


This is from my current game. It is 0.15, to be sure, so that might have changed in trunk.

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Sar
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Spider Stomper

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 21:06

Re: Xom makes me salty

  Code:
  3105 | D:3      | XOM: summons 3 hostile demons
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a sun demon
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a ynoxinul
  3106 | D:3      | Noticed a ynoxinul

This is from my current game. It is 0.15, to be sure, so that might have changed in trunk.[/quote]
I would file an "issue" on Mantis stating that it is something you encountered in v.15.x that seems to be a bug.

Spider Stomper

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 21:46

Re: Xom makes me salty

that's a feature, not a bug
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Spider Stomper

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Post Sunday, 23rd November 2014, 22:24

Re: Xom makes me salty

The reason I would submit an issue on Mantis is to hear from a dev who knows the historical context of Xom's powers as to why it might be a feature and not a bug.
Ideally, a dev would write a very informative response in the issue's Note field, which you could then provide a link to in this thread.
Otherwise, you might be influenced by the opinion of a non-dev who has joined The Tavern not even a month ago and provides their opinion without any reasoning whatsoever.

For me, the beauty of Crawl's "live development" is that things evolve so quickly making the replayability like no other FOSS game I've come across. On the flip side, it also means that some quirky situations sometimes happen to go unreported as crawlers are not certain if it's a feature or a possible issue/bug.

As for Xom's summoning 3 demons on D:3,
in my opinion (for the little it's worth since I'm not a dev and I don't know the historical Xom development), when NOT under penance, I don't think any god should do something that has a 90%+ chance of killing even experienced crawlers.
Whether or not your situation is survivable is obviously open for quite a debate but the fact it happened on D:3 is definitely a drastic if not extreme situation that borders between a feature and a bug.
I just happen to find it looks more like a bug than a feature...therefore I recommended submitting an issue on Mantis.

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rockygargoyle

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Monday, 24th November 2014, 14:38

Re: Xom makes me salty

I do think the Xom weapon swap should be removed. It's extremely spoilery that you have to have a second weapon of your preferred type in case Xom steals your main weapon. Once you do know that, it's a much less severe effect, but if you didn't know to have a backup weapon you could be quite screwed.

When Xom swaps your weapon onto a salamander, and you fail to notice, and then kill that salamander in the lava, losing your weapon, that's a formula for a rage quit, and I really don't see what that adds to the game.

The starting chaos branded weapon also sucks, sure a lot of the time it does cool stuff, but 1 berserk monster in the early D will ruin your day.

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Bloax, Sandman25
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Monday, 24th November 2014, 15:23

Re: Xom makes me salty

Often times a touch of sweetness will dilute the salt.
If you are offended by something I've posted, just PM me. It probably wasn't intentional.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Monday, 24th November 2014, 15:26

Re: Xom makes me salty

I don't know if it's because I've become utterly uncaring when it comes to YASDs, but Xom isn't all that scary and if anything he's one of the better gods - simply due to how swole your character will be from all the mutations

fr: xom keeps the ability to summon a bunch of nasty shit early on, but always revives you and dismisses the monsters when you splat to them (he's a god damn trickster, after all)
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.

Shoals Surfer

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Post Monday, 24th November 2014, 21:11

Re: Xom makes me salty

Xom is great.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:18

Re: Xom makes me salty

Yeah, I love Xom, though the OoD spawning he causes is a bit... extreme
  Code:
  4712 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4758 | D:5      | XOM is BORED!
  4758 | D:5      | XOM: severe Summ miscast
  4759 | D:5      | Noticed an Ice Fiend

Luckily for me I still got away with a teleport scroll... but STILL
Also, on a related note, how long does it usually take for hard summons to despawn?
Last edited by agenthree on Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:27, edited 2 times in total.

Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:25

Re: Xom makes me salty

I'd be fine with chaos knights keeping their chaos weapon, provided they also started with one or two scrolls of teleportation. I think it would make them a lot more fun.

Flavor, you ask? ...Uh, presumably these knights of chaos had to survive while worshiping Xom for some period of time before entering the dungeon....
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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 02:56

Re: Xom makes me salty

agenthree wrote:Yeah, I love Xom, though the OoD spawning he causes is a bit... extreme

Xom was bored there, though. He will try to kill you if you let him get bored.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 04:20

Re: Xom makes me salty

Skrybe wrote:
agenthree wrote:Yeah, I love Xom, though the OoD spawning he causes is a bit... extreme

Xom was bored there, though. He will try to kill you if you let him get bored.

True, but I find that him getting bored usually happens at least once in the early game (though it usually is not as drastic)

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 25th November 2014, 06:49

Re: Xom makes me salty

agenthree wrote:Yeah, I love Xom, though the OoD spawning he causes is a bit... extreme
  Code:
  4712 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4758 | D:5      | XOM is BORED!
  4758 | D:5      | XOM: severe Summ miscast
  4759 | D:5      | Noticed an Ice Fiend

Luckily for me I still got away with a teleport scroll... but STILL
Also, on a related note, how long does it usually take for hard summons to despawn?


If you're talking about durably summoned creatures, they don't time out.
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Greatrole:Wz(1st),Mo(1st),AM(1st),EE(1st)

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