Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)


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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 04:24

Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... 23cd96e5b3
Make closing doors take 13 aut instead of 10

To discourage "doordancing".

RIP my favourite tactic of them all

p.s. at least hasted doordancing still works right guys! guys? ...guys???
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 04:30

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

still not as bad as gammafunk

Spoiler: show
gamma since i know you're reading this i'm going to have PF take out sif, ciao
take it easy

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dck, duvessa

Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 04:31

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

Don't worry, its memory will live on forever...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0cMO-m5g94

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 05:05

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping,
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.

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Hirsch I, TeshiAlair, XuaXua
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 14:38

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

that was bautiful duvessa. :')
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 14:57

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

duvessa wrote:Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping,
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.

While I am not a huge Paul Simon fan that is one of my favorites. Good choice.
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 15:05

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

the best part is that if someone doesn't see this commit and tries doordancing they'll just think 'wow I got really unlucky on doublemoves' every time until they notice

dck

Vestibule Violator

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 15:37

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

So two actions that by definition and concept and extremely similar take a different amount of time that will indeed get people who don't read every commit killed, as there isn't by itself any reason why closing a door seems like it would take any longer than opening it.
All of this so people don't CCCCCCCCCCCCC for a bit until energy randomization lets the monster step into the doorway.
So closing doors is a deathtrap and energy randomization exists regardless.

I sure do love video games.

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PleasingFungus

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 16:20

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

This doesn't seem like much of a deathtrap, most of the time it would just result in the monster walking into the door after you shut it.

dck

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 16:25

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

noncombat actions and time consumed by them in crawl tends to be very consistent and suddenly having one action that is randomly special-cased to consume the regular time plus a bit more is a death trap.

Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 17:11

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

It's hardly the only non-combat action that takes more than 1AUT (eating, butchering, traversing stairs). Perhaps there's a minor realism argument here, but it's not like the result of the old system (door dancing) was remotely realistic (or indeed fun) anyway.

I guess somebody might die as a result of being surprised by it (if they repeatedly slammed a door on a halberd gnoll without paying attention to the amount of time they're using or the fact that it's hitting them?) but that's true for most changes and people should get used to it soon enough.

dck

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 19:06

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

Leafsnail wrote:It's hardly the only non-combat action that takes more than 1AUT (eating, butchering, traversing stairs). Perhaps there's a minor realism argument here, but it's not like the result of the old system (door dancing) was remotely realistic (or indeed fun) anyway.

Realism, what.
Anyway eating is a deathtrap too, as is butchering and the fact using stairs doesn't take the same as normal movement. However these have the alleviating fact of being related to other deungeon elements that are distinctive enough on their own to be apparent as different thing to players on a glance. Even should the player actually care about how long it takes him to open doors (which he won't because it's even automated during exploration) he then has to pay attention to action turncount when closing them because even as fundamentally similar as these actions are conceptually, they just so happen to be different in this game!

What I mean by this is that this change achieves nothing but adding an important spoiler to feature interaction. Had we gotten rid of a similarly obscure mechanic like energy randomization in return I would consider it a net gain but this change overlaps with energy randomization and thus changes nothing. Nothing other than the fact new players will die closing doors without knowing what's going on and the game adds another step to be climbed in the path to learning it without gaining any depth in the process.

Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 19:48

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

MarvinPA and I discussed this in IRC earlier today, and agreed to revert the change. Further reasoning in the link.

Hail Terpsichore...

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XuaXua

dck

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Post Friday, 11th July 2014, 19:49

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

Hell yes.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Saturday, 12th July 2014, 01:27

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

PleasingFungus wrote:MarvinPA and I discussed this in IRC earlier today, and agreed to revert the change. Further reasoning in the link.

Hail Terpsichore...


And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming.
And the sign said, The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sound of silence.
"Be aware that a lot of people on this forum, such as mageykun and XuaXua, have a habit of making things up." - minmay a.k.a. duvessa
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 12th July 2014, 03:47

Re: Doordancing is dead (mourning thread)

is not cool anymore, XuaXua. duvessa already did it. :lol:
my posts are to be read in a mildly playful tone, with a deep, sexy voice.

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