Why Elf? (Serious question)

[cerebovssquire]

what have elves got to do with orcs?

they're bffs

IIRC, Tolkien orcs are made from the undead bodies of elves or something.

I think Melkor created them as a new race as a mockery of elves by transforming elvish prisoners. I could look this up in the Silmarillion but there's no way I'm reading that again.

[Sprucery]

Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes.

[Hopeless]

Interestingly the "dark" elf idea is something that comes out of non-tolkien sources and into D&D. I am not sure who came up with the original concept of the drow as a pale haired dark skinned race* but dark elves have been around in literature for some time. Orcs otoh are primarily a Tolkien creation. I read the Silmarillion about 35 years ago so my memory of it is sketchy but the above passage is I think the only information Tolkien gives about them. (Keeping in mind that he didn't write the whole book himself as his son did much of the sorting and editing and clarifying. So there is much lore that is sketchy in that book.)

More intriguing though is the later turning of Orcs and Elves into possible allies via story and module in Dark Sun among other campaigns/products. The assumption that they must be mortal enemies is definitely old school and probably out of date by now. And as Crawl seeks to have its own lore aside from those two obvious contributors, the fact that Elven Halls starts in the Orcish Mines does not surprise me any more than the fact that Orcs seem to be traders and quite magically oriented and capable of Mining like Dwarves. IE: not the orcs of your grandpa's game.


(*I believe it was E. Gary Gygax as he was the author of the A1-4 D1-3 Q series of AD&D modules as well as the Monster Manual which are their first appearances in D&D lore.)

[Turukano]

Why [do elven halls] exist at all if all good players avoid it always?

It's definitely not right that all good players avoid it.

The point is: when you begin with crawl you'll usually enter and clear every branch you can reach. As advanced player you think about if it's necessary. So you might enter or skip it - depending on your playstyle, equipment, skill levels, game strategy, mood etc.

[XuaXua]

How do the orcs mine the Orc area for gold? I'd expect many spent wands of digging, or even orcs armed with such items.

[tasonir]

If the orcs had many wands of digging the orcish mines would be a lot larger. They mine with their fingernails.

[Patashu]

How do the orcs mine the Orc area for gold? I'd expect many spent wands of digging, or even orcs armed with such items.

You should play Nethack

[Hopeless]

Why [do elven halls] exist at all if all good players avoid it always?

It's definitely not right that all good players avoid it.

The point is: when you begin with crawl you'll usually enter and clear every branch you can reach. As advanced player you think about if it's necessary. So you might enter or skip it - depending on your playstyle, equipment, skill levels, game strategy, mood etc.

I expect most beginners don't ever make it to E1 much less E3. I think there is definitely an intermediate player who somehow manages to survive early/mid game who is then faced with choices of whether or not to go there. I believe (I could be wrong) that most players don't automatically choose to complete every branch. Particularly since there is so much anti-completionist commentary on the forums where I assume many beginners and intermediate players end up. That was prompted this thread actually. The fact that I read something like "Don't do elf" in a number of places and wondered whether it was a stagnate dead end branch in the eyes of good players.

[XuaXua]

If the orcs had many wands of digging the orcish mines would be a lot larger. They mine with their fingernails.

Not enough fingernail golems then.

[Turukano]

I expect most beginners don't ever make it to E1 much less E3. I think there is definitely an intermediate player who somehow manages to survive early/mid game

Ok, beginner was not the right word, intermediate player is better.

Here is a link to the statistics of one of the best DCSS players, at least when you consider players ranked by total score as criterion. 4tharraofdagon has specialised in ultra speedruns, he takes high risks (that's why he has a low win percentage) and saves every single turn he can. He recently won a 15-runer with a DEFE in 28.4 k turns. Nevertheless he went to E:3 as usual.

[duvessa]

He recently won a 15-runer with a DEFE in 28.4 k turns. Nevertheless he went to E:3 as usual.

and also did 25 levels of a ziggurat

[Sandman25]

And I know why it was relatively safe.

  Code:

 16368 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 19. HP: 89/89 MP: 46/46

  Code:

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------

       Fire Storm        |       |       |       |       |       |    91 |   177 |    44 |   463 ||   775

[shizmoo]

For extra XP and loot. Some Elf:3 layouts are too easy where there is a single hallway leading to the hoard making 1v1 mindless. Other layouts have a 2 tile wide hallway and are more difficult. All and all, elf:3 is easy just 1v1 and stair scum.