Hardcore optimal players, denounce yourselves !

[Cynry]

So I read a lot about strategies like scumming Lair as Mu for thousands of turns, or digging killholes every floor etc, and it seems like a strange way to have fun to me... So I wonder if/how many people actually do that !

Are there any on the forum ?
Who are they ?

[duvessa]

Yes, I use digging.

[Baconkid]

I saw a rune once.

[Cynry]

Yes, I use digging.

To that extent ?

[Klown]

I play recklessly 90% of the time because it's more fun.

[TheDefiniteArticle]

I try my hardest to succeed at the things that I do. I don't understand why that is strange.

[Cynry]

I try my hardest to succeed at the things that I do. I don't understand why that is strange.

That is not what I find strange, but the fact that you are still having fun doing so if you use one of the mentionned strats or another of an equal level of tediousness.

But if you are, okay, I wouldn't have imagined, but I'm cool with that...

[Moose]

Someone told me that comments like duvessa's and TheDefiniteArticle's are the #1 reason people quit crawl forever!

[Magipi]

So I read a lot about strategies like scumming Lair as Mu for thousands of turns, or digging killholes every floor etc

Look at this:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11272

[TheDefiniteArticle]

Someone told me that comments like duvessa's and TheDefiniteArticle's are the #1 reason people quit crawl forever!

I would very much like to meet the person who quit crawl forever because duvessa uses digging.

EDIT--feature request: give Duvessa the dig spell in the hopes that this will cause duvessa to quit crawl forever

[WalkerBoh]

Crawl is a game, and you are meant to have fun playing it. Different people find different things fun and like to enjoy the game in sometimes opposite ways. I can certainly appreciate that some people enjoy crawl as a puzzle, or as an optimization problem (usually optimizing chances of a win, but also often turn count or real time minutes to win). If you play the game in this way, why wouldn't you take advantage of the game however you can? That is part of the "optimal" solution, and much of the fun is in finding and succeeding with that solution. Sure, you can choose not to use the optimal strategy, but then much of the appeal is lost. What fun is it to optimize your play if you are just going to ignore it and do something else in the end?

I personally do not play this way but I can appreciate it. And crawl generally does a great job of facilitating fun, non-tedious play for "optimal" players without taking anything away from people who don't care at all about the best strategy. Sometimes eliminating tedious practices requires sacrificing something other players find fun and don't abuse anyways. In these cases just recognize that crawl's design philosophy prioritizes these non-tedious play highly enough to deem the sacrifice worth making.

[tasonir]

I play recklessly 90% of the time because it's more fun.

As much as I want to be an optimal player and walk away from every monster I encounter to take them in safe cleared corners, I doubt I ever will. I mean, I run when the situation is really bad, but I run into medium-bad fights head on, and probably always will.

[wizzzargh]

I'm so hardcore I'd rather starve to death pillardancing a Dire Elephant than use an escape item

Spoiler: show

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Wizzzargh/morgue-Wizzzargh-20140327-202758.txt

[TheDefiniteArticle]

That is not what I find strange, but the fact that you are still having fun doing so if you use one of the mentionned strats or another of an equal level of tediousness.

It's more about degrees. Doing anything less than my best is a total waste of time; I can't even imagine having fun that way. That means doing unpleasant things sometimes, and that's just the way it is.

If "Optimal strategy X is boring" was enough to stop me from having fun entirely, I would not even play Crawl due to the existence of item destruction. (please for the love of god remove item destruction how can anyone defend this mechanic)

[bcadren]

Item destruction is great! It lets you know when you should have gotten rid of all your Potions and Scrolls and be using wands only.

[moocowmoocow]

So I read a lot about strategies like scumming Lair as Mu for thousands of turns, or digging killholes every floor etc, and it seems like a strange way to have fun to me... So I wonder if/how many people actually do that !

Are there any on the forum ?
Who are they ?

You must be using a strange definition of optimal and I'm curious where you've "read a lot" about these "strategies".

[pratamawirya]

So I read a lot about strategies like scumming Lair as Mu for thousands of turns, or digging killholes every floor etc, and it seems like a strange way to have fun to me... So I wonder if/how many people actually do that !

Are there any on the forum ?
Who are they ?

You must be using a strange definition of optimal and I'm curious where you've "read a lot" about these "strategies".

Is this a sarcasm? Have you been keeping up with the Tavern lately?

[moocowmoocow]

So I read a lot about strategies like scumming Lair as Mu for thousands of turns, or digging killholes every floor etc, and it seems like a strange way to have fun to me... So I wonder if/how many people actually do that !

Are there any on the forum ?
Who are they ?

You must be using a strange definition of optimal and I'm curious where you've "read a lot" about these "strategies".

Is this a sarcasm? Have you been keeping up with the Tavern lately?

My bad... sleep deprivation killing my sarcasm detector.

[TeshiAlair]

One time, I remembered I had curare.

It was awesome

[Arkhan]

I don't dig a killhole every floor. That would be silly!


There are often simple corridors to use instead.

[Sprucery]

I don't think I've ever dug a killhole once in my Crawl career. I should probably sometimes do it, though. Most likely, I'll forget to do it anyway.

[damiac]

On characters I won, I usually settled into somewhat optimal play, meaning luring enemies away into cleared areas a few at a time. I'll also sometimes use an acquirement scroll for wands which are considered to be the optimal choice if you don't already have haste/healing/teleport, instead of the much more exciting options of weapons and armor. (Of course, most of the time I regret whichever choice I made anyway)

Most of the time I play rather mindlessly, only taking stock of the situation when it's too late.

So I wouldn't call myself hardcore, yet I recognize that the design goal of not allowing optimal play to require tedious behavior is a very smart design. I've walked away from a lot of games because I couldn't get myself not to do the tedious optimal thing, but that tedious thing killed the fun for me. However, playing the game disadvantaged by not doing that tedious thing makes me feel like I'm just making things harder on myself.

[twelwe]

I use digging/disintigration on certain final floors that can be kited easily, like orc:4, almost every time. If I don't have /dis, two diagonal digs works just as well. I'm surprised this is getting attention now, it has been a viable strategy for years

[and into]

I think you mean announce, not denounce.

I do play Crawl, but I wouldn't call myself "hardcore optimal." I mean I've appeared in a few amateur videos but feedback was mixed at best, so.