Proposal: Felid as a more normal race

[pratamawirya]

From my point of view, the main trait of felids is their multiple lives. So, why not redesign them as a more normal race who can wear armour, wield a weapon, and such? Probably not all kinds of armour since they're small (only robes and dragon armour).

I propose to change their aptitudes as follows:
long blade --> -2
short blade --> -1
fighting --> -1
polearms --> -2
m&f --> -2
staves --> -2
bows --> -2
crossbows --> -2
slings --> -1
throwing --> 0
armour --> -2
dodging --> +2
shields --> -1
stealth --> +2

Everything else is the same, including their HP aptitude.

EDIT: And flavor-wise, I think felids as a "humanoid with feline head" race is cooler than lolcat as they are now.

[Klown]

I prefer humanoid over pure cat as well, personally. Doubt it'll change though, since it showcases 'jump' in 0.14.

[1010011010]

If you want humanoid, play one of the 26 humanoid races.

edit: also extra lives, is a smaller feature than most other felid traits, since it hardly effects how you play.

[pratamawirya]

"No weapons, no armour" is kind of boring. It restricts Felids' gameplay quite badly. And multiple lives should affect them more, since no other races have it.

This way, I can see them as a different kind of mummies. Bad apts, even worse HP, but have something else to make up for those: their multiple lives. (Probably their magic aptitudes should be reduced too: hexes to +1, translocations to +1, charms to +1, transmutations to 0, and everything else to -1.)

[Sar]

Bad apts

Probably their magic aptitudes should be reduced too

[pratamawirya]

Bad apts

Probably their magic aptitudes should be reduced too

Because I want them to have the things in your 1st quote, I propose the 2nd quote.

[Roderic]

I know that y'all are thinking about this more than what klown posted...

[Tiktacy]

"No weapons, no armour" is kind of boring. It restricts Felids' gameplay quite badly. And multiple lives should affect them more, since no other races have it.

This way, I can see them as a different kind of mummies. Bad apts, even worse HP, but have something else to make up for those: their multiple lives. (Probably their magic aptitudes should be reduced too: hexes to +1, translocations to +1, charms to +1, transmutations to 0, and everything else to -1.)

No weapons and no armor is definitely not "boring." In fact, the no weapons and no armor thing is actually a good thing IMO. Weapons and armor are kind if arbitrary a lot of the time. Dodging is generally the better way to go, so armor is usually pretty arbitrary and changes a grand total if maybe 4 or 5 times the entire game. Also, unarmed is arguably the strongest weapon you can get in 90% of games in my experience.

Rather than having to pick up and check every decent weapon and armor in hopes for something, you just play with what you have. Felids are very different then mummies, they have a few of the same advantages, but then again, so do trolls/ogres, and Tengus/high elves. They aren't really THAT similar, but it's easy to find similarities between them.

[pratamawirya]

No weapons and no armor is definitely not "boring." In fact, the no weapons and no armor thing is actually a good thing IMO. Weapons and armor are kind if arbitrary a lot of the time. Dodging is generally the better way to go, so armor is usually pretty arbitrary and changes a grand total if maybe 4 or 5 times the entire game. Also, unarmed is arguably the strongest weapon you can get in 90% of games in my experience.

Both weapons and unarmed have their own advantages, even if unarmed is the strongest choice (I'm not really sure about this, but whatever). As I see it, Felids are prohibited from using weapons (and armour, maybe) for no real reason. Why can't they use them?

[savageorange]

No weapons and no armor is definitely not "boring." In fact, the no weapons and no armor thing is actually a good thing IMO. Weapons and armor are kind if arbitrary a lot of the time. Dodging is generally the better way to go, so armor is usually pretty arbitrary and changes a grand total if maybe 4 or 5 times the entire game. Also, unarmed is arguably the strongest weapon you can get in 90% of games in my experience.

Both weapons and unarmed have their own advantages, even if unarmed is the strongest choice (I'm not really sure about this, but whatever). As I see it, Felids are prohibited from using weapons (and armour, maybe) for no real reason. Why can't they use them?

What I hate about CYC is that I can never tell how serious people are being when they say stuff like that.

[pratamawirya]

Both weapons and unarmed have their own advantages, even if unarmed is the strongest choice (I'm not really sure about this, but whatever). As I see it, Felids are prohibited from using weapons (and armour, maybe) for no real reason. Why can't they use them?

What I hate about CYC is that I can never tell how serious people are being when they say stuff like that.

Outside of the lolcat flavor, what else would the reason be? Could there ever be a strong reason for such race to exist? Even octopodes' gameplay aren't so restricted; weapons and armour skills still mean something to them.

(I'm putting on my Xuaxua Hat here; I'm serious.)

[savageorange]

Physics. It's a sentient -housecat-. Even if it were a car-sized sabertooth tiger, it would never approach the amount or angle of leverage needed to do actual useful things with weapons or armor. Just try to imagine a cartoon showing such a creature using weapons -- it looks totally absurd and ineffectual. Being a quadruped, never mind lacking opposable thumbs, makes you terrible at this stuff.

Very much unlike an octopode in that respect. Octopodes contain 60% leverage by volume

[Amnesiac]

I think felids should be able to use wands and rods, since cats can kind of grab things. And since they are intelligent, I'm sure they will think of a way to do this. Or they could hug those items, while they lay on the back

[Tiktacy]

I think felids should be able to use wands and rods, since cats can kind of grab things. And since they are intelligent, I'm sure they will think of a way to do this. Or they could hug those items, while they lay on the back

I prefer the suggestion on badforum where Felids rub their fur against the wand to become charged with the wands so they can use them whenever they want.

[Klown]

I think felids should be able to use wands and rods, since cats can kind of grab things.

http://i.imgur.com/Gf6qKFF.jpg?1

[tasonir]

No weapons is the most important part of felids, much better than the extra lives. Imho the extra lives are mostly there to compensate for the -40% hp. You could give them -10% hp and no extra lives and it'd be about the same. Maybe -20%, but so many races are at -20% these days it's overcrowded

No weapons means they can do things no other race can, like abuse the hell out of trog or okawaru piety. Trog in particular, without his gifts it's more or less like wearing 3 amulets of faith all game. Really abusable, but in a fun and not terribly boring way. At least in my opinion. I'm not sure why a cat should be trog's most favored minion, but it makes for a great game

[duvessa]

No weapons means they can do things no other race can, like abuse the hell out of trog or okawaru piety.

Guess it's time I updated badforum.txt.

[tasonir]

No weapons means they can do things no other race can, like abuse the hell out of trog or okawaru piety.

Guess it's time I updated badforum.txt.

Go ahead and attribute it to crate : viewtopic.php?p=113295#p113295

Or maybe Mikee if you prefer : viewtopic.php?p=126107#p126109

You could probably ues Mikee's quote : Later, with stable piety, bia can be used somewhat more liberally than any berserker, as it is your only real use for piety.

So yeah, I give bad advice, sorry. Maybe I should only recommend Trog, but you could use finesse a lot more as well, it's just that finesse still requires that you actually be in combat, where brother in arms lets you hide in safety while everything is killed for you. Hence why trog is the #1 pick.

[wheals]

Really everything in this thread belongs in badforum on its own merit. The thread as a whole is a horrible trainwreck that is just too amazing to ignore.

[tasonir]

You may have a point that the thread with a catgirl in it isn't the best place for advice, but I can't help myself sometimes. FeBe was a combo that really played genuinely differently from how I expected it to before I tried it; I like to encourage people to try it

[duvessa]

No weapons means they can do things no other race can, like abuse the hell out of trog or okawaru piety.

Guess it's time I updated badforum.txt.

Go ahead and attribute it to crate : viewtopic.php?p=113295#p113295

Or maybe Mikee if you prefer : viewtopic.php?p=126107#p126109

You could probably ues Mikee's quote : Later, with stable piety, bia can be used somewhat more liberally than any berserker, as it is your only real use for piety.

i am pretty sure you are wildly misinterpreting these posts, and crate and mikee do not actually think "not getting gifts" is why okawaru and trog are good felid gods

[MDvedh]

I think felids should be able to use wands and rods, since cats can kind of grab things. And since they are intelligent, I'm sure they will think of a way to do this. Or they could hug those items, while they lay on the back

I suggest making felids non-intelligent by adding some reflexes, like fear status upon seeing big and dangerous enemies, instant-forced-jump on little or fast things like rats, snakes and spriggans, automeows upon getting hungry and so on.

[Leafsnail]

Crazy Yiff Corner

[Grimm]

That's it, you're banned from CYC.

[dck]

police state

[Grimm]

police state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXJxYNUoJKs

[pratamawirya]

CYC is the safest place in Tavern, really

[tasonir]

i am pretty sure you are wildly misinterpreting these posts, and crate and mikee do not actually think "not getting gifts" is why okawaru and trog are good felid gods

Ah, i didn't mean to imply that this one reason is why trog's a good felid god. I meant it is the reason that trog is different on a felid. This is something a felid can do with Trog that no other race can do, and might be unexpected. The main reasons why trog is a good god for felids are the same reasons trog is a good god for anyone, his abilities are very strong, and you can berserk a ton on a race that eats easily (but this is also shared with kobold, trolls, gourmand necklaces, etc). I was just highlighting the unique felid part of extremely high piety. It's one of the reasons I said "FeBe was a combo that really played genuinely differently from how I expected it to before I tried it".