Demigod Idea

[lordhamshire]

I had a random thought, I don't know if it's any good, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Give Demigods the mutation; "your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful." as a natural mutation, (or some other step along the wild magic branch.)

(Also, I think it would be cool if they could throw large rocks as a "Hercules" like thing, but I'm more iffy on that idea.)

[Tiktacy]

I had a random thought, I don't know if it's any good, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Give Demigods the mutation; "your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful." as a natural mutation, (or some other step along the wild magic branch.)

(Also, I think it would be cool if they could throw large rocks as a "Hercules" like thing, but I'm more iffy on that idea.)

Giving them wild magic, godlike strength(can wield giant clubs and GSC and throw large rocks) is just the kind of twist I'de like to see on these pathetic excuses for Devine ancestry.

However, my favorite idea for buffing this sad species would be giving them immunity to negative mutations. Now THAT would be cool AND unique.

[lordhamshire]

I had a random thought, I don't know if it's any good, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Give Demigods the mutation; "your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful." as a natural mutation, (or some other step along the wild magic branch.)

(Also, I think it would be cool if they could throw large rocks as a "Hercules" like thing, but I'm more iffy on that idea.)

Giving them wild magic, godlike strength(can wield giant clubs and GSC and throw large rocks) is just the kind of twist I'de like to see on these pathetic excuses for Devine ancestry.

However, my favorite idea for buffing this sad species would be giving them immunity to negative mutations. Now THAT would be cool AND unique.

I don't think they should be able to wield giant clubs, that would seem a bit silly. I probably wouldn't make them immune to negative mutation either, maybe immune to mutation in general though. *shrug*

[moocowmoocow]

Maybe demigods should be able to choose what parent god they are descended from. Then you get stats/mutations/abilities to reflect which diety you choose.

[pratamawirya]

Talking about mutation, it could be interesting to give them a new "godly power" mutation, which randomly gives passive beneficial effects (causing short fear effect on enemies in LOS, giving you might effect when meeting a really strong unique, etc). It's good because it's beneficial (nothing broken, though) and passive so it doesn't really change the gameplay of demigods (since many players actually like demigods as they are now: a strong yet simple race).

[Tiktacy]

I had a random thought, I don't know if it's any good, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Give Demigods the mutation; "your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful." as a natural mutation, (or some other step along the wild magic branch.)

(Also, I think it would be cool if they could throw large rocks as a "Hercules" like thing, but I'm more iffy on that idea.)

Giving them wild magic, godlike strength(can wield giant clubs and GSC and throw large rocks) is just the kind of twist I'de like to see on these pathetic excuses for Devine ancestry.

However, my favorite idea for buffing this sad species would be giving them immunity to negative mutations. Now THAT would be cool AND unique.

I don't think they should be able to wield giant clubs, that would seem a bit silly. I probably wouldn't make them immune to negative mutation either, maybe immune to mutation in general though. *shrug*

Well, then it would basically be like playing a high-elf who is also a follower of zin. I say resistant to negative mutations because that would allow them to gain eat chunks and quad potions of mutation at will, obviously just negating effects of malmutate entirely prevent scumming mutations. But I guess I can see why that might be a bit OP.

Maybe giving them corrosion, mutation, magic, and stat loss immunity would be more thematic. The idea that these demigods bodies are basically "indestructible" except through brute force. How's that?

[One-Eyed Jack]

Demigods don't need a buff and wild magic would be a nerf anyway

Dg are fine.

[spudwalt]

Yeah, Wild Magic is a major nerf in the early game, when you're still working on getting your spells castable. I had a demigod who got wild magic early on from a mutation potion where basically I just focused more on melee until I finally got enough skill to be able to use Stone Arrow again.

I don't know if demigods really need a buff; they've already got both increased HP and MP as well as crazy-high stats. A small buff such as a single pip of SustAb or one more MR on level up could work, but definitely not something huge like rMut or rCorr. The idea isn't that they're indestructible (that'd be more gargoyles than anything) -- it's that their natural attributes are better than other races.

[lordhamshire]

I wasn't saying they needed a buff.

[Hurkyl]

The relevant flavor, I think, is to reflect their divine origins in giving them limited "godly" powers, to make them more out to be a sort of godling, rather than just a mildly more buff than usual normal.

[lordhamshire]

Yeah, but I don't like the choosing of which god your the offspring of, that's basically worshiping a god again.

Maybe if it was randomly chosen at a certain level, like Draconians, but I don't love that idea.

[Tiktacy]

Yeah, but I don't like the choosing of which god your the offspring of, that's basically worshiping a god again.

Maybe if it was randomly chosen at a certain level, like Draconians, but I don't love that idea.

But then we just have another version of draconians.

Demigods are hard to change around, as they are meant to simply be slightly more powerful than your average joe. This is why I suggest we simply just give them the ability to wield giant spiked clubs(thors hammer, anyone?) and throw giant rocks(Hercules like op said) to compensate a bit for their lack in most everything.

Maybe we could make it require them to be a certain level to do that though(at level 12, you gain "Devine strength" allowing you to use said objects and make it easier to wield shields without as much of a penalty).

[lordhamshire]

Yeah, but I don't like the choosing of which god your the offspring of, that's basically worshiping a god again.

Maybe if it was randomly chosen at a certain level, like Draconians, but I don't love that idea.

But then we just have another version of draconians.

Demigods are hard to change around, as they are meant to simply be slightly more powerful than your average joe. This is why I suggest we simply just give them the ability to wield giant spiked clubs(thors hammer, anyone?) and throw giant rocks(Hercules like op said) to compensate a bit for their lack in most everything.

Maybe we could make it require them to be a certain level to do that though(at level 12, you gain "Devine strength" allowing you to use said objects and make it easier to wield shields without as much of a penalty).

Thor's hammer wasn't a giant spiked club...

[Tiktacy]

Yeah, but I don't like the choosing of which god your the offspring of, that's basically worshiping a god again.

Maybe if it was randomly chosen at a certain level, like Draconians, but I don't love that idea.

But then we just have another version of draconians.

Demigods are hard to change around, as they are meant to simply be slightly more powerful than your average joe. This is why I suggest we simply just give them the ability to wield giant spiked clubs(thors hammer, anyone?) and throw giant rocks(Hercules like op said) to compensate a bit for their lack in most everything.

Maybe we could make it require them to be a certain level to do that though(at level 12, you gain "Devine strength" allowing you to use said objects and make it easier to wield shields without as much of a penalty).

Thor's hammer wasn't a giant spiked club...

It was so heavy that Thor was the only one capable of wielding it, at least that's how I thought it worked.

[Daggtex]

Well, I like the idea of differentiating demigods by god parent. It would be /similar/ to choosing a god from the start, but severely lacking in the godly benefits and later choice of switching. For instance: a child of Trog can berserk, but gets no weapon gifts or summonable allies.

HOWEVER this is tough to implement from the character creation menu, as it would require another choice screen specifically for demigods. So, perhaps it is "discovered" after finding the parent's altar, and before then you play similarly to the current demigod. An altar to TSO comes into view, and suddenly TSO speaks to you, etc. etc. etc. Now you have a TSO related ability, like the halo. (This "find the altar" idea would be a different method from both demonspawn's and draconians'. It would also be late enough in the game to discourage restarting until you get your favorite parent.)

[reaver]

The Demigods branch hasn't been touched for a couple months but I think it's a longer term and more fun way to make Demigods interesting.

I do think there's a few mutations which should be given to species at some point, including Wild Magic and Blurry Vision, but it would be better to wait for a place where they fit perfectly rather than shoehorn it in now.

[MoogleDan]

I'm surprised I've never seen rN+ or rN++ proposed as an innate resistance for them. It's fairly minor, thematically appropriate, doesn't require any sort of fancy new systems at all, and is the desired tip-of-the-hat toward these beings being more than just Really, Really Genetically Blessed sonsabitches. It makes sense that their souls should have some inherent capacity to resist the forces of darkness.

[pratamawirya]

I'm surprised I've never seen rN+ or rN++ proposed as an innate resistance for them. It's fairly minor, thematically appropriate, doesn't require any sort of fancy new systems at all, and is the desired tip-of-the-hat toward these beings being more than just Really, Really Genetically Blessed sonsabitches. It makes sense that their souls should have some inherent capacity to resist the forces of darkness.

Innate resistance like this is not interesting enough, that's the problem.

[MoogleDan]

I'm surprised I've never seen rN+ or rN++ proposed as an innate resistance for them. It's fairly minor, thematically appropriate, doesn't require any sort of fancy new systems at all, and is the desired tip-of-the-hat toward these beings being more than just Really, Really Genetically Blessed sonsabitches. It makes sense that their souls should have some inherent capacity to resist the forces of darkness.

Innate resistance like this is not interesting enough, that's the problem.

I agree, but there's a very vocal contingent of demigod players out there who seem opposed to anything large enough to qualify as "interesting." Personally I'm all for at least trying out dpeg's randomly generated Godly Feats portals, but the outcry against that got loud and extremely personal really fast >__<

[Tiktacy]

I'm surprised I've never seen rN+ or rN++ proposed as an innate resistance for them. It's fairly minor, thematically appropriate, doesn't require any sort of fancy new systems at all, and is the desired tip-of-the-hat toward these beings being more than just Really, Really Genetically Blessed sonsabitches. It makes sense that their souls should have some inherent capacity to resist the forces of darkness.

Innate resistance like this is not interesting enough, that's the problem.

I agree, but there's a very vocal contingent of demigod players out there who seem opposed to anything large enough to qualify as "interesting." Personally I'm all for at least trying out dpeg's randomly generated Godly Feats portals, but the outcry against that got loud and extremely personal really fast >__<

Link?

[rebthor]

The Demigods branch hasn't been touched for a couple months but I think it's a longer term and more fun way to make Demigods interesting.

I do think there's a few mutations which should be given to species at some point, including Wild Magic and Blurry Vision, but it would be better to wait for a place where they fit perfectly rather than shoehorn it in now.

Djinn should get wild magic, at least it's thematic.

[dpeg]

Personally I'm all for at least trying out dpeg's randomly generated Godly Feats portals, but the outcry against that got loud and extremely personal really fast >__<

Oh, the idea is not dead, don't worry. I couldn't do that to poor mumra
Right now, my Crawl plate is full with rune locking, the dreaded poll summary and something else. After that, I'm back to divine stuff.

[DracheReborn]

I agree, but there's a very vocal contingent of demigod players out there who seem opposed to anything large enough to qualify as "interesting." Personally I'm all for at least trying out dpeg's randomly generated Godly Feats portals, but the outcry against that got loud and extremely personal really fast >__<

Link?

Gory details here

I'm with MoogleDan. rN isn't much and makes demigods just feel a wee bit special. Abstract worshipers seem interesting though. Hope to see it soon.

[and into]

There's some people who want Demigods to change somehow, there are others who don't want any changes. Proposing that demigods get a barely noticeable buff or change as a "compromise" between the two camps is even worse, though. Sometimes compromises make sense, when it means that everyone gets something they want, but this compromise sounds like everyone will get something they *don't* want. Are the people who want more god-flavor and power for demigods *really* going to be satisfied with rN+? I don't think so. And the "demigod purists" would simply be annoyed by it and (correctly) point out that such changes are just near-meaningless fiddling, for the sake of fiddling.

A better example of a workable compromise is keeping the demigods exactly the same in terms of apts, intrinsics, etc., but have some "divine mission" or quest-type thing become available to (but never forced upon) them. I believe that's pretty close to what dpeg has in mind.

The caveat I'd recommend adding, is this: Unlike joining a religion, the benefits of taking part in the demigod's optional material should not be overwhelming. It should be *truly* optional. You can say joining a religion is "optional" in Crawl, but outside of self-imposed challenges, it isn't: If you want to win, you pick a god, because the benefits are so strong.

So I think the design goal should not be, "This extra demigod material we are adding is going to be a buff that compensates for no religion," but rather, "This is truly optional stuff that, if you survive, may result in more loot and experience, but potentially at a high level of risk. This is intended primarily for flavor and fun—like a much less extreme version of worshiping Xom—and not for power-gaming. Playing demigod straight [as it is currently] is completely viable and in most cases, probably optimal, but for people who want some sort of divine challenge, demigods can *opt* to do that."

If that were achieved, you'd get some interesting new options while playing demigod, while the "normal" demigod experience remains. I certainly don't think demigods need to change, but I think it would be fine if something along the lines described above were added.

I definitely don't want to see them become another power-gaming species. We already have gargoyles. (Speaking of: has general opinion finally come around to what I've been saying for a few weeks now, that gargoyles are too strong and need some tweaking? I've seen a few people lately say offhandedly that gargoyles are broken....)

[Siegurt]

Another option would be to retain both demigods in their current status, and implement the proposed "fancy" demigods as a different race, the current demigod could be renamed 'paragon' or somesuch and otherwise (or the new race could come in with a different name that implied a godly heritage)

[Tiktacy]

I for one think the idea of no-level cap is quite awesome. Of course, increased levels beyond 27 would have to be nerfed in some way(maybe by radically increasing the exp requirement for levels beyond 27). It would make sense, and would be similar to demonpawns in the sense that the appeal stems from difficult early game, but truly epic late game. This would also symbolize the Demi-gods "ascension" beyond that of normal beings.

I also don't think it would effect the games balancing too much, as it would ideally effect 3 rune games very little, and 15 rune games by a 'comparatively' small margin(maybe reaching level 32-ish by the end). While at the same time, it offers satisfaction for both sides, keeping Demi-gods essentially the same, but giving a cool little boost in extended gameplay to please the growing hunger for Devine resemblance.

[MoogleDan]

I for one think the idea of no-level cap is quite awesome. Of course, increased levels beyond 27 would have to be nerfed in some way(maybe by radically increasing the exp requirement for levels beyond 27). It would make sense, and would be similar to demonpawns in the sense that the appeal stems from difficult early game, but truly epic late game. This would also symbolize the Demi-gods "ascension" beyond that of normal beings.

I also don't think it would effect the games balancing too much, as it would ideally effect 3 rune games very little, and 15 rune games by a 'comparatively' small margin(maybe reaching level 32-ish by the end). While at the same time, it offers satisfaction for both sides, keeping Demi-gods essentially the same, but giving a cool little boost in extended gameplay to please the growing hunger for Devine resemblance.

So far as I can see, that would result in a large chunk of extra HP, MR, and spell levels. MP too, if the character hasn't already maxed that out. That isn't exactly a negligible heap of prizes, but I'd be curious to see how someone would try to balance it. What apart from HP, MP, MR, spell levels, and breath weapons is affected by a character's experience level?

[johlstei]

Stats and trap detection at least

[MDvedh]

Maybe demigods should be able to choose what parent god they are descended from. Then you get stats/mutations/abilities to reflect which diety you choose.

I really like that idea, however picking a deity would be strange enough.

Instead, it could be rolled randomly at some XL and I see two ways of giving them some divine attributes:

1. They could get a specific god's powers as if they had, say, (XL/5) * piety rank, but without gifts.
2. They could get some specific mutations at some point, say, sInv/Clar for Ash, Wild Magic for Veh, Berserkitis for Trog, etc.

[indspenceable]

I don't like any of the current Demigod buff abilities - and heres why. Demigods are, at their core: You don't get the benefit of a God, but instead you get this other benefit that should help you no matter what build you're going. It simplifies the game by removing options. Having demigods select a god to be descended from is sort of like a flavored version of selecting a god - which might make sense from backstory, but from the role of that race, really makes it more like slightly different Humans.

In terms of the current demigod branch - it feels like the way it's trying to make up for demigods being not good (this thread is the first time I've heard people say Demigods are powerful enough, as is) by adding more complexity. This is antithetical to the point of demigods, though - they reduce complexity! They make it so you don't need to worry about this whole "god" thing. Adding in a bunch of crazy new "unique" monsters, which give you some sort of divine powers (I know this might not be the specific implementation but I think the point still stands) totally destroys that role.

[johlstei]

Let demigods pick a letter at game start, and give them a chance to convert monsters using that letter ala beogh. Want ancient lich allies? Pick L. Want nagas? N it is. Want an army of draconians to bring to extended? You know what to do. Possibly let them defer this decision so they can check on lair branches.

[MoogleDan]

I think indspenceable's point on keeping demigod mechanics the way they are is valid, and that it's a different enough style of gameplay from other species as is. Maybe the solution to the flavour / implementation discrepancy really should be a name change. Make a new species known as demigods which are in some weird way religion themed, as religion is a major part of their backstory, and change the current demigods to infidels. "These humans have long since abandoned the gods, and their brutal culture and way of life have resulted in bodies and minds far stronger than their natural limitations would suggest. They are, however, cautious of new ideas." If it's just a name change, it shouldn't go over TOO badly (though tengu -> kenku was admittedly a bit less dramatic).

[Siegurt]

Yeah, I suggested "Paragon" as a name change for Demigod, it somehow seemed to fit with the mechanics while not changing the "feel" too much for me. I think it feels like a less extreme name change than from "demigod" to "infidel"

[MoogleDan]

Yeah, I suggested "Paragon" as a name change for Demigod, it somehow seemed to fit with the mechanics while not changing the "feel" too much for me. I think it feels like a less extreme name change than from "demigod" to "infidel"

Oh right, sorry, forgot about that post from earlier! Then I second your suggestion of changing the name and keeping mechanics.

[spudwalt]

I like that no-level cap idea that was being tossed around earlier. I also think giving Demigods small amounts of the "lesser" resistances (SustAb, rN+, boosted MR growth, things of that nature) could tie in effectively with their "divine stamina" idea without completely breaking the game.

Alternatively, if people want to go forward with the name change, that's also an option. I'll still play them every now and then, in between bouts of magic cats shooting things with lazors.

[Lacuenta]

Since demigods accumulate a lot of stat points why not give them a stimules package based on which ones you get/choose?

This should probably be based on natural stats (so bonusses from gear/mutations etc. not included) just from natural random and chosen stat growth.

Example:

If strength is >X : Gain large species bonus and malus (wear giant clubs, shields become bucklers etc)
if Dexterity is >X : Gain ev +X and stlth +X (small species bonus instead?/flying?)
if Intelligence is >X : Gain wild magic level 2

work it in a way that a player has control over it but without the possibility of getting multiple bonusses.
Edit: Since the way this should be set up, the changes would only come into play late game not altering the demigod very much for most of the game, hopefully satisfying some of the purists (also by choosing stats a bit more spreadingly you can probably evade all of them), but aat the same time making them more interesting to other players.

[galehar]

You Must Read This Before Posting in GDD

IV. Think hard about what it is you are trying to achieve.
V. Clearly state in your post the reasons for your proposal.
VI. Work hard on your proposal.
VII. Give your thread a clear, appropriate title.

The OP failed to achieve the post quality required for GDD. There isn't a single solid proposal in the thread. The consensus for demigods is that it is a solid species (both by design and power level). Don't suggest to change it without giving any reason. This thread is just "Random demigod ideas". I'm Yiufing it.

[Confidence Interval]

I'm Yiufing it.

You are thrown into the Abyss!

[skyspire]

Ability to throw big rocks and wield giant clubs sounds more like a Titan than a Demigod, to me.

That's an idea for a new player race.. It would be cool to play as a Titan. They could have an elemental affinity similar to Draconians, but instead of breath, it makes any unbranded weapon play as if it was branded to their element. Lightning Titan would turn a normal giant club into a giant club of lightning, or something and have the elemental resistance and weakness.

They would be so big that no armour would be able to fit them except dragon armour, maybe. And their stealth skill would be like -10 or something lol.

[duvessa]

Ability to throw big rocks and wield giant clubs sounds more like a Titan than a Demigod, to me.

I think it sounds like an ogre

[IronJelly]

I had a random thought, I don't know if it's any good, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Give Demigods the mutation; "your spells are much harder to cast, but much more powerful." as a natural mutation, (or some other step along the wild magic branch.)

(Also, I think it would be cool if they could throw large rocks as a "Hercules" like thing, but I'm more iffy on that idea.)

hmm...

Yeah, but I don't like the choosing of which god your the offspring of, that's basically worshiping a god again.

Maybe if it was randomly chosen at a certain level, like Draconians, but I don't love that idea.

But then we just have another version of draconians.

Demigods are hard to change around, as they are meant to simply be slightly more powerful than your average joe. This is why I suggest we simply just give them the ability to wield giant spiked clubs(thors hammer, anyone?) and throw giant rocks(Hercules like op said) to compensate a bit for their lack in most everything.

Maybe we could make it require them to be a certain level to do that though(at level 12, you gain "Devine strength" allowing you to use said objects and make it easier to wield shields without as much of a penalty).

What if they were given a single stat (int, str, dex) chosen at random around level 3 or so, that gets a huge boost per level (at least 1 pt per level, maybe more). By being random, it satisfied your desire for draconian-style randomizing, level 3 or 4 is juuuust far enough that most players won't waste time farming for the stat they want., and it's thematic.

on a side note, I'm planning to start a tabletop RPG in which the Players each have a single one of their stats at godly levels, while the rest are normal (ie, the strength guy can probably lift pyramids. The dex guy moves more like a liquid than a person). It takes place in ancient stylized greece, and the players are Hercules's bastard children. Er... the point is, rather than being a decendant of a God, if you give Demigods a single (random) superstat, you're now giving them a reason to try to become a God. As they're better than their normal peers.

I suppose super Int would be ridiculously powerful, but i still think it would be cool.

[lordhamshire]

As a last little note, if a race were to have wild magic it would be best not to throw max wild right off the bat.

Something like light wild magic at lvl 7, mid wild magic at lvl 14, and max wild magic at 21.

I know it wouldn't be a buff... but I think it would be interesting and thematic.

[starless]

If you had to change the species, why give them only a spellcasting perk?
I usually play Demigods pure melee, no spells.