Ascii or tiles?


If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it belongs here. Also, come here if you just need to get hammered.

Ascii or tiles?

Ascii
20
33%
Tiles
41
67%
 
Total votes : 61

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 05:51

Re: Ascii or tiles?

I set up good fonts for console and tried playing it again. It is too hard to get used to ascii after tiles :(

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 08:39

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Maybe it would be easier in Comic Sans?

For this message the author Grimm has received thanks:
Sandman25
User avatar

Temple Termagant

Posts: 13

Joined: Wednesday, 17th April 2013, 07:53

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 08:41

Re: Ascii or tiles?

point 32 Comic Sans.

the size is important.

For this message the author Mojavemusic has received thanks:
Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 08:47

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Thank you, I will try point 32 Comic Sans.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 08:59

Re: Ascii or tiles?

pics plz

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 133

Joined: Tuesday, 16th April 2013, 10:23

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 09:53

Re: Ascii or tiles?

I second the humble request for pics.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 09:56

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Frelus wrote:I second the humble request for pics.


If it is for me, I cannot play at the moment.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 10:13

Re: Ascii or tiles?

A sad but undeniable result of the poll is that about three quarters of Crawl's player base are illiterate. For them, the cognitive burden of assigning meaning to abstract glyphs is too high, and they have to be characterised as semiologically handicapped. Of course, this is not at all their own fault: Given the rampant decline of public education in the West, most notably the US, this trend did not at all come as a suprise. Fortunately, the Devteam was aware of this in advance and, selflessly and laboriously as ever, provided a pictorial mode. We realise that tiles players will only ever comprehend about 25-35% of what's going on in any given game, but if the pictures of Dungeon Crawl can put just one young person temporarily out of their intellectual misery, even if only for mere moments, this world has become a slightly better place for it.

A dim ray of hope for the reading capabilities of today's youth is that they seem to be able to tick boxes.

For this message the author dpeg has received thanks: 8
adityarajbhatt, cerebovssquire, eith, Galefury, gofftc, gorbeh, rebthor, varsovie

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 133

Joined: Tuesday, 16th April 2013, 10:23

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 10:15

Re: Ascii or tiles?

@dpeg:
Hey, I play DF in console, as I said!
GET THE PITCHFORKS OUT, GUYS, HE INSULTED US!
I just have to say that I love the style of you tiles, and the quality of them.

Spider Stomper

Posts: 218

Joined: Friday, 3rd June 2011, 09:57

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 11:46

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Spoiler: show
Image

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 133

Joined: Tuesday, 16th April 2013, 10:23

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 12:20

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Thats point 32 comic sans? Looks.... strange. And fun!
User avatar

Eringya's Employee

Posts: 1783

Joined: Friday, 7th October 2011, 19:24

Location: Athens, Greece

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 15:13

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Frelus wrote:Thats point 32 comic sans? Looks.... strange. And fun!

You should not be this vocal about liking Comic Sans. There's lots of hate going on about this font. :P :lol:
MuCK;
  Code:
612 | D:1      | Xom revived you
614 | D:1      | Xom revived you
614 | D:1      | Slain by a gnoll

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 16:12

Re: Ascii or tiles?

I'll stay with illiterate crowd... I am corrupted by tiles and I don't want to remember 'X' means door, font does not help much with it. Don't show tiles to players if you want them to play console version :)
I suspect I would stay with console if I played it first.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 16:24

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Let us add that the abstractness of glyphs is not the main disadvantage of console. To me, the main disadvantage is that I cannot use the mouse. In this regard, webtiles version is a cousin of console in my eyes: so uncomfortable that it borders unplayability.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 33

Joined: Saturday, 15th January 2011, 18:25

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 16:45

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Magipi wrote:Let us add that the abstractness of glyphs is not the main disadvantage of console. To me, the main disadvantage is that I cannot use the mouse. In this regard, webtiles version is a cousin of console in my eyes: so uncomfortable that it borders unplayability.


Why do you actually need to use the mouse? Im interested to know. Cause any time ive tried out tiles I just use the keys cause the mouse is so slow.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 16:59

Re: Ascii or tiles?

eith wrote:
Magipi wrote:Let us add that the abstractness of glyphs is not the main disadvantage of console. To me, the main disadvantage is that I cannot use the mouse. In this regard, webtiles version is a cousin of console in my eyes: so uncomfortable that it borders unplayability.


Why do you actually need to use the mouse? Im interested to know. Cause any time ive tried out tiles I just use the keys cause the mouse is so slow.


See viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7481&p=101196
There are some player (myself included) who can't play without mouse.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 17:27

Re: Ascii or tiles?

eith wrote:Why do you actually need to use the mouse? Im interested to know.

I use a laptop that does not have a numpad. So I need to use the mouse to move, when I am not autoexploring. (Yes, I know, this is not an ideal setup for Crawl :D)

Other than that, I use the mouse to manage equipment, drink a potion, read a scroll, shoot a spell, memorize a spell, and probably for other things as well. Once I tried webtiles (moving very slowly and carefully with hjkl) , and spent 90% of my time to find out the various complicated ways to do these things with the keyboard only. Extremely tedious.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 33

Joined: Saturday, 15th January 2011, 18:25

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 17:36

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Magipi wrote:
eith wrote:Why do you actually need to use the mouse? Im interested to know.

I use a laptop that does not have a numpad. So I need to use the mouse to move, when I am not autoexploring. (Yes, I know, this is not an ideal setup for Crawl :D)

Other than that, I use the mouse to manage equipment, drink a potion, read a scroll, shoot a spell, memorize a spell, and probably for other things as well. Once I tried webtiles (moving very slowly and carefully with hjkl) , and spent 90% of my time to find out the various complicated ways to do these things with the keyboard only. Extremely tedious.


I guarantee you it would be worth the time to learn the keybindings. The mouse is incredibly slow and tedious in comparison.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 17:39

Re: Ascii or tiles?

eith wrote:
Magipi wrote:
eith wrote:Why do you actually need to use the mouse? Im interested to know.

I use a laptop that does not have a numpad. So I need to use the mouse to move, when I am not autoexploring. (Yes, I know, this is not an ideal setup for Crawl :D)

Other than that, I use the mouse to manage equipment, drink a potion, read a scroll, shoot a spell, memorize a spell, and probably for other things as well. Once I tried webtiles (moving very slowly and carefully with hjkl) , and spent 90% of my time to find out the various complicated ways to do these things with the keyboard only. Extremely tedious.


I guarantee you it would be worth the time to learn the keybindings. The mouse is incredibly slow and tedious in comparison.


Keybindings?

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 17:44

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Keyboard commands. I highly recommend leaning the VI-keys for movement, especially on a laptop.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 17:53

Re: Ascii or tiles?

BlackSheep wrote:Keyboard commands. I highly recommend leaning the VI-keys for movement, especially on a laptop.

Saying things like "VI-keys" is not a way to work towards my understanding :D

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 33

Joined: Saturday, 15th January 2011, 18:25

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 18:00

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Magipi wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:Keyboard commands. I highly recommend leaning the VI-keys for movement, especially on a laptop.

Saying things like "VI-keys" is not a way to work towards my understanding :D


vi-keys means using the hjklyubn keys to move instead of using numpad. it may seem very annoying at first, but it will be well worth it if you play a lot of crawl

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 18:08

Re: Ascii or tiles?

eith wrote:it may seem very annoying at first, but it will be well worth it if you play a lot of crawl

Thanks, but I think I won't - my methods are just fine for me.

Anyway, even if I used the keyboard only, I would still play tiles and not console. I like tiles, they are nice, while the abstract graphics of the console mode is just too weird for my taste. It is like a game from the 1970s, and I did not play computer games back then :D

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 133

Joined: Tuesday, 16th April 2013, 10:23

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 18:26

Re: Ascii or tiles?

TehDruid wrote:
Frelus wrote:Thats point 32 comic sans? Looks.... strange. And fun!

You should not be this vocal about liking Comic Sans. There's lots of hate going on about this font. :P :lol:

Did not mean I like the font, I meant I liked the kind craziness of playing like this ;)
User avatar

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1111

Joined: Monday, 18th March 2013, 23:23

Post Friday, 19th April 2013, 20:24

Re: Ascii or tiles?

dpeg wrote:A sad but undeniable result of the poll is that about three quarters of Crawl's player base are illiterate. For them, the cognitive burden of assigning meaning to abstract glyphs is too high, and they have to be characterised as semiologically handicapped. Of course, this is not at all their own fault: Given the rampant decline of public education in the West, most notably the US, this trend did not at all come as a suprise. Fortunately, the Devteam was aware of this in advance and, selflessly and laboriously as ever, provided a pictorial mode. We realise that tiles players will only ever comprehend about 25-35% of what's going on in any given game, but if the pictures of Dungeon Crawl can put just one young person temporarily out of their intellectual misery, even if only for mere moments, this world has become a slightly better place for it.

A dim ray of hope for the reading capabilities of today's youth is that they seem to be able to tick boxes.



I do surprisingly well considering I have to play by whacking my forehead against the keyboard anyway. :lol:
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 482

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 21:08

Location: Savannah, Ga.

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 02:22

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Given enough time, monkeys typing on consoles will eventually escape with the Orb.
  Code:
Jory screams, "No, no!" before exploding into a cloud of blood!

For this message the author tcjsavannah has received thanks: 3
adityarajbhatt, Grimm, rebthor

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 07:04

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Magipi wrote:
eith wrote:it may seem very annoying at first, but it will be well worth it if you play a lot of crawl

Thanks, but I think I won't - my methods are just fine for me.

Anyway, even if I used the keyboard only, I would still play tiles and not console. I like tiles, they are nice, while the abstract graphics of the console mode is just too weird for my taste. It is like a game from the 1970s, and I did not play computer games back then :D


numrow + arrow keys is perfectly fine for playing crawl too, but i'll have to hide now because my fellow console players are going to lynch me

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 07:14

Re: Ascii or tiles?

tcjsavannah wrote:Given enough time, monkeys typing on consoles will eventually escape with the Orb.

But NOT ON TILES.

meant to quote not thank

For this message the author Grimm has received thanks:
tcjsavannah

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 09:37

Re: Ascii or tiles?

monkey > mouse
User avatar

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 482

Joined: Thursday, 16th December 2010, 21:08

Location: Savannah, Ga.

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 13:02

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Grimm wrote:
tcjsavannah wrote:Given enough time, monkeys typing on consoles will eventually escape with the Orb.

But NOT ON TILES.

meant to quote not thank


One good mis-thank deserves another.
  Code:
Jory screams, "No, no!" before exploding into a cloud of blood!

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 14:00

Re: Ascii or tiles?

dpeg wrote:monkey > mouse

We've not been reading our Douglas Adams.

tcjsavannah wrote:One good mis-thank deserves another.

There's an admin setting that allows people to revoke their thanks. I thought about proposing turning it on, but this way it's like permadeath. Permathanks. Makes for a better, more intense forum.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 300

Joined: Tuesday, 19th February 2013, 23:34

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 15:49

Re: Ascii or tiles?

In the beginning, there was Nethack. It was console, and it was good. Then, some strange people created Slash'em with tiles, and the garishness of the tiles matched the absurdness of the game.

A few Nethack wanderers discovered crawl, and it was good. It was console, and the early wanderers learned to imbue letters with new meaning: to learn the horror of a green "o" or the thrill of spotting a "{". DCSS came along and added tiles, but the good and pure refused to accept the garish and fixed icons for the beauty and purity of the halo of meaning surrounding letters and symbols of the alphabet.

Then the fucking devteam did this:

  Code:
* Glyph changes for several monsters. See 052_monster_glyphs.txt.


Since then, there is a horrible dissonance in the once pure world of consoles. The halo of meaning does not match the creature; the world is fractured, dark. Love is hate, good is evil, pure is impure.

And that's why I play tiles, damnit.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 16:26

Re: Ascii or tiles?

The fucking devteam did this to make going consoling easier for the new generation. And it was good.

Blades Runner

Posts: 552

Joined: Tuesday, 10th April 2012, 21:11

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 17:46

Re: Ascii or tiles?

dpeg wrote:A sad but undeniable result of the poll is that about three quarters of Crawl's player base are illiterate. For them, the cognitive burden of assigning meaning to abstract glyphs is too high, and they have to be characterised as semiologically handicapped. Of course, this is not at all their own fault: Given the rampant decline of public education in the West, most notably the US, this trend did not at all come as a suprise. Fortunately, the Devteam was aware of this in advance and, selflessly and laboriously as ever, provided a pictorial mode. We realise that tiles players will only ever comprehend about 25-35% of what's going on in any given game, but if the pictures of Dungeon Crawl can put just one young person temporarily out of their intellectual misery, even if only for mere moments, this world has become a slightly better place for it.

A dim ray of hope for the reading capabilities of today's youth is that they seem to be able to tick boxes.


2 much words lol.

Halls Hopper

Posts: 58

Joined: Saturday, 15th January 2011, 07:47

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 22:35

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Mojavemusic wrote:point 32 Comic Sans.

the size is important.


I'd also suggest 'char_set = ibm' in init.txt

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Saturday, 20th April 2013, 23:00

Re: Ascii or tiles?

dpeg wrote:The fucking devteam did this to make going consoling easier for the new generation. And it was good.

If you want to make console even easier just implement this proposal.

For this message the author Grimm has received thanks:
HenryFlower

Snake Sneak

Posts: 122

Joined: Sunday, 8th January 2012, 19:11

Post Monday, 22nd April 2013, 09:34

Re: Ascii or tiles?

how do you guys change your font?by me,its always raster fonts and lucida console,with no further options

@dpeg:thumbs up!:D

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Monday, 22nd April 2013, 13:55

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Rasta fonts?

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 33

Joined: Saturday, 15th January 2011, 18:25

Post Monday, 22nd April 2013, 16:30

Re: Ascii or tiles?

gorbeh wrote:how do you guys change your font?by me,its always raster fonts and lucida console,with no further options

@dpeg:thumbs up!:D


Using putty to play on the servers. It has access to a lot more fonts. You can actually change the windows console font, but it requires registry hacking

Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1500

Joined: Monday, 3rd January 2011, 17:47

Post Monday, 22nd April 2013, 18:11

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Grimm wrote:Rasta fonts?

Dey help ya babble on.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 22nd April 2013, 18:32

Re: Ascii or tiles?


For this message the author cerebovssquire has received thanks: 2
Grimm, rebthor
User avatar

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 30

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 15:58

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 00:23

Re: Ascii or tiles?

when i first started playing i used tiles exclusively, because i thought the mouse was useful. then i started playing on cdo becuase i love playing trunk most of all and i got tired of downloading a new version every other day. by the time webtiles came about i was so used to the ascii glyphs and keyboard commands that I can't make use of the mouse if i try to play tiles anymore anyhow - it's just too slow,

and dagnabbit I'm not supposed to be a little doll, I'm an x or an i or an e or sometimes even a d or an @.


i have a real fondness for my little blue x.(does that make me a zero?)

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2173

Joined: Saturday, 2nd February 2013, 09:52

Post Monday, 27th May 2013, 14:11

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Magipi wrote:I bet the ratio of tiles players among all players (and not just forum members) is closer to 100% than to 90%.


An interesting stat from the tournament:

Proportion of players using webtiles: 71.7%

This is much lower than I guessed.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 133

Joined: Wednesday, 19th December 2012, 15:59

Post Monday, 27th May 2013, 16:02

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Hmm...well if you die, console will make you feel better, but the other side has all the tall tiles.

For this message the author thejasper has received thanks:
rebthor

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 161

Joined: Thursday, 16th May 2013, 15:28

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 02:17

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Tiles is easy and fun, but I learned a lot of good habits playing console on my smartphone.
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 624

Joined: Saturday, 18th December 2010, 04:50

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 05:23

Re: Ascii or tiles?

dpeg wrote:A sad but undeniable result of the poll is that about three quarters of Crawl's player base are illiterate. For them, the cognitive burden of assigning meaning to abstract glyphs is too high, and they have to be characterised as semiologically handicapped. Of course, this is not at all their own fault: Given the rampant decline of public education in the West, most notably the US, this trend did not at all come as a suprise. Fortunately, the Devteam was aware of this in advance and, selflessly and laboriously as ever, provided a pictorial mode. We realise that tiles players will only ever comprehend about 25-35% of what's going on in any given game, but if the pictures of Dungeon Crawl can put just one young person temporarily out of their intellectual misery, even if only for mere moments, this world has become a slightly better place for it.

A dim ray of hope for the reading capabilities of today's youth is that they seem to be able to tick boxes.


The reason I play tiles is not because I'm illiterate, it's because ASCII is retarded. Remembering which glyphs represent which entities is not a difficult task, it's just mundane and boring to look at. There's nothing exciting about fighting an army of letters in a dungeon made out of punctuation. It's like playing a game of chess without the chess pieces.

"OK, these bottlecaps represent the rooks, these nickels represent the pawns, these paperclips represent the bishops, these pen caps represent the knights, this thumbtack represents the queen, and this jelly bean represents the king."

Sure, you're still technically playing chess, but why the hell would anyone prefer that over normal chess pieces? There's no reason to play it like that unless you're lacking actual chess pieces. However, Crawl does have tiles, so why the hell would I ever want to play it in ASCII? Why would I want to look at a "g" representing a goblin when I could look at an actual goblin? ASCII is in no way superior to Tiles, and is directly inferior in many aspects. I cannot understand why people who play using ASCII act superior, even though they are clearly in the minority. I know the first roguelikes had ASCII graphics, but that was due to the technical limitations of the time. This is the year of 2013, not 1980. Why are roguelikes still being made in ASCII? Why is this even a thing?

I started playing Crawl in ASCII. Someone ported the ASCII version to the Wii and put it on the Homebrew channel many years ago, which is how I originally discovered Crawl. It was an old, outdated version of the game, but I tried it out and I enjoyed it so I looked it up online (that was back when Crawl was v0.5, the port I found was v0.4 IIRC). When I saw I had the option to choose between tiles and ASCII, I chose tiles.

Do you honestly mean to tell me that this -

Image


- is somehow superior to this?

Image

Even the tiles minimap is more sophisticated than ASCII Crawl!

Also, since you called us illiterate, allow me (a lowly tiles player) to correct your spelling:
characterised - should be characterized
suprise - should be surprise
realise - should be realize

For this message the author Laraso has received thanks: 2
pratamawirya, Sandman25

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 07:19

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Laraso wrote:characterised - should be characterized
realise - should be realize

British spelling yo
User avatar

Blades Runner

Posts: 624

Joined: Saturday, 18th December 2010, 04:50

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 07:43

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Grimm wrote:
Laraso wrote:characterised - should be characterized
realise - should be realize

British spelling yo


Firefox's spelling checker threw a fit over it. Regardless, I've never seen those words spelled with an "s" in place of the "z", although the fact that I don't live in the UK probably has something to do with that.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 07:46

Re: Ascii or tiles?

yeah

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3618

Joined: Thursday, 23rd December 2010, 12:43

Post Monday, 10th June 2013, 08:35

Re: Ascii or tiles?

Humour is a terrible weapon, especially in the hands of a German.

He who laughs last... laughs alone.

For this message the author dpeg has received thanks:
Arrhythmia
PreviousNext

Return to Crazy Yiuf's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.