CIP: Blood Stiletto - a VpAs of Okawaru

[DeathKnyte]

Have some time to play again, and my current project is an inspiration from posts on the subject by nago, and ZoFy.

The idea is to try and play a dedicated assassin background - hence; throwing, stealth, and stabbing.

It is quite interesting to discover how needles work with some throwing skill (as besides poison, I never bothered with others because they never seemed to work).

The most hilarious incident so far was when I read identified a scroll of acquirement. Normally I just take gold, but for this guy I chose ammunition, in trying to stay with the build principle. I got 105 darts of flaming! Wow, like that really showed up Okawaru - lol!

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.2 (tiles) character file.

Blood Stiletto the Unseen (Vampire Assassin)       Turns: 29601, Time: 11:44:53

HP  94/94        AC 20     Str 11      XL: 14   Next: 26%
MP  21/21        EV 14     Int 13      God: Okawaru [******]
Gold 1630        SH 22     Dex 18      Spells:  0 memorised, 13 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   a - +2,+1 dagger (venom)
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   q - +4 ring mail {Harold}
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : +   I - +0 shield
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   U - +0 helmet
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   d - +1 cloak
Sust.Abil.: + .     Spirit.Shd : .   F - +0 pair of orc gauntlets
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   u - +2 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : +       Ctrl.Telep.: .   D - amulet "Fog Etoen" {Cons Stlth++}
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   C - ring of sustain abilities
                                     n - +3 ring of protection

@: regenerating slowly, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, incredibly
stealthy
A: bottle blood, fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing
a: Bat Form, Bottle Blood, Heroism, Finesse, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is exalted by your worship.
You are near bloodless.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 1580 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +2,+1 dagger of venom (weapon)
 b - a +1 blowgun {Sonja}
 Q - a +1,+1 hand axe of returning (quivered)
Missiles
 e - 6 poisoned needles
 f - 5 curare-tipped needles
 j - 19 darts
 l - 12 darts of dispersal
 p - 4 poisoned javelins
 t - 6 needles of sickness
 v - 17 steel darts
 y - 2 throwing nets
 E - 14 stones
 G - 5 needles of paralysis
 M - 5 needles of slowing
 N - 8 needles of frenzy
Armour
 d - a +1 cloak (worn)
 q - a +4 ring mail (worn) {Harold}
 u - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 F - a +0 pair of orcish gauntlets (worn)
 I - a +0 shield (worn)
 U - a +0 helmet (worn)
Magical devices
 c - a wand of fireball {zapped: 1}
 B - a wand of confusion {zapped: 6}
 K - a wand of slowing {zapped: 5}
 O - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1}
 Y - a wand of random effects {zapped: 10}
Scrolls
 g - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 h - 3 scrolls of blinking
 i - a scroll of remove curse
 s - 3 scrolls of fog
 A - a scroll of fear
Jewellery
 n - a +3 ring of protection (left hand)
 C - a ring of sustain abilities (right hand)
 D - the amulet "Fog Etoen" (around neck) {Cons Stlth++}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [amulet of conservation]
   It makes you much more stealthy.
Potions
 m - a potion of might
 o - 7 potions of blood
 r - 2 potions of agility
 x - 2 potions of invisibility
 H - a potion of curing
 T - 4 potions of coagulated blood
 X - 2 potions of heal wounds
Rods
 R - a +2 rod of destruction [lightning,fireball,iron] (11/11)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)


   Skills:
 + Level 4.5 Fighting
 - Level 2.2 Short Blades
 * Level 12.1 Throwing
 + Level 4.7 Armour
 + Level 10.4 Dodging
 + Level 18.2 Stealth
 + Level 11.6 Stabbing
 + Level 8.2 Shields
 + Level 6.0 Traps
 - Level 4.0 Invocations
 + Level 4.3 Evocations


You have 13 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (7/8) D:10
  Swamp (0/5) Lair:5        Snake (0/5) Lair:5        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
   Orc: D:6-11     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:5: (  D:13: (

Portals:
Trove: D:12 (give +4 ice dragon armour)

Annotations
D:11 Mines entrance in N
Lair:7 !D-Yaks + lava critters + e-eels


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You heal slowly.
You can bottle blood from corpses.
You have razor-sharp teeth.*
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You can survive without breathing.*


<snip>


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    88 |   139 |   478 |  1026 |   327 ||  2058
       Sabre             |       |       |    35 |       |       ||    35
       Short sword       |       |       |       |    39 |       ||    39
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |    20 |       ||    20
       Demon whip        |       |       |       |    25 |       ||    25
       Club              |       |       |       |       |    23 ||    23
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |    20 |    25 |     5 |     5 ||    55
Throw: Spear             |    11 |    18 |    36 |    12 |       ||    77
       Club              |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Dart              |     3 |    52 |    47 |    59 |     3 ||   164
       Hand axe          |     2 |    28 |   169 |   255 |    68 ||   522
       Stone             |       |       |    24 |     1 |     9 ||    34
       Dagger            |       |       |     5 |     4 |       ||     9
       Javelin           |       |       |       |    71 |    11 ||    82
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     3 |    12 |     1 ||    16
 Abil: End Transformatio |     1 |    14 |    35 |    13 |    10 ||    73
       Bat Form          |     1 |    14 |    35 |    13 |    10 ||    73
       Bottle Blood      |       |     1 |    21 |    25 |    19 ||    66
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |    10 |    14 |    12 ||    36
       Rod               |       |       |       |     2 |    28 ||    30
  Use: Scroll            |       |       |    17 |    16 |     7 ||    40
       Potion            |       |       |    12 |    20 |    14 ||    46
 Stab: Sleeping          |    14 |    16 |    36 |   117 |    58 ||   241
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Confused          |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     2 |     2 ||     4
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3



I really like the new action report at the bottom of morgue files now. It gives one an idea on how many times certain keys are pressed. (lol)
In the above one, the amount of times I used weapons are deceiving as an indicator of melee though, because I'm certain at least a third of those are against plants.

[Sandman25]

I consider acquiring gold suboptimal unless you have a specific item you want to purchase in a shop. For example in my current game I have 6k gold without any precious items in shops.

[ZoFy]

I just don't get how do you manage to play a stabber wearing ring mail and a shield, lacking hexes and having only 2.2 short blades skill at XL:14... Of course, you do have javelins, needles and evocables, the ability to fly away from most of enemies and probably lots of patience to help you out, but lacking a consistent killing tool would really bother me if i were you.
Speaking of the first found acquirement, i usually go with weapon on stabbers, because at the point when i can find this scroll, the only unseen short blade type is usually the desired quick blade. So i have a decent chance to acquire it.
Yeah, ammo acquirement can be nice at times: once i've got 40(!) curare needles out of it. But it's more of a lottery.

[Sandman25]

I just don't get how do you manage to play a stabber wearing ring mail and a shield, lacking hexes and having only 2.2 short blades skill at XL:14... Of course, you do have javelins, needles and evocables, the ability to fly away from most of enemies and probably lots of patience to help you out, but lacking a consistent killing tool would really bother me if i were you.
Speaking of the first found acquirement, i usually go with weapon on stabbers, because at the point when i can find this scroll, the only unseen short blade type is usually the desired quick blade. So i have a decent chance to acquire it.
Yeah, ammo acquirement can be nice at times: once i've got 40(!) curare needles out of it. But it's more of a lottery.

Well, it's possible to play a stabber in ring mail, -2 EVP is not a big deal in 0.12 (-24 stealth, that's slightly above 1 skill level of Stealth for bloodless Vp who has the best possible stealth factor 21). He also has an artefact with Stlth++ and uses Oka's heroism for melee - he used a sabre/short sword at some point (I am not sure why it is not present in inventory now). I have a similar game with FDA and Trog (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8709) and I didn't have any problems in Lair either though I didn't have FDA then.

[ZoFy]

Well, it's possible to play a stabber in ring mail, -2 EVP is not a big deal in 0.12 (-24 stealth, that's slightly above 1 skill level of Stealth for bloodless Vp who has the best possible stealth factor 21). He also has an artefact with Stlth++ and uses Oka's heroism for melee - he used a sabre/short sword at some point (I am not sure why it is not present in inventory now). I have a similar game with FDA and Trog (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8709) and I didn't have any problems in Lair either though I didn't have FDA then.

Yes, -24 stealth is not too big of a hit, even though it makes stealth even more unreliable than it usually is. What'd you say about the stealth penalty of a not fully invested shield?
Sorry but your game isn't an appropriate example. With Trog, good short blades and amounts of slaying you had, Lair should be okay without any stealth.

[Sandman25]

Shield does not affect stealth score as far as I know. My game is still a good example, you can see how many victims were stabbed despite my stealth skill was much lower and I was just a Ha with 18 stealth factor. This Vp stabbed about 1.5 times more.

HaBe at XL 14:

  Code:

Stab: Sleeping          |     2 |       |    19 |    76 |    76 ||   173
       Distracted        |       |       |     2 |     9 |     8 ||    19
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1

VpAs at XL 14:

  Code:

Stab: Sleeping          |    14 |    16 |    36 |   117 |    58 ||   241
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
       Confused          |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     2 |     2 ||     4
       Paralysed         |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3

I agree with you regarding SBl, 2.2 is too low. But maybe the player just does not want to melee, it's possible with Vp (but not with Ha).

Edit. Just checked source code. No, shield does not affect stealth. Wiki is 100% correct (except it does not list stealth factors for fungus (30)/tree(27)/jelly(21)/wisp(21)/porcupine(12)/bat(17 for non-vampire)

[ZoFy]

Edit. Just checked source code. No, shield does not affect stealth. Wiki is 100% correct (except it does not list stealth factors for fungus (30)/tree(27)/jelly(21)/wisp(21)/porcupine(12)/bat(17 for non-vampire)

Wow. Just wow. This made so little sense to me that i downloaded the 0.12 source and checked it myself. Is there any reason why shields don't mess with stealth?
And apparently, jelly form is fully coded into the game, even though there's no way to take it outside of wizmode.

[Sandman25]

Is there any reason why shields don't mess with stealth?

I don't know. Do shields affect stealth in other roguelikes?

[DeathKnyte]

Sorry for delaying in responding everyone - got busy in real life all of a sudden...

I consider acquiring gold suboptimal unless you have a specific item you want to purchase in a shop. For example in my current game I have 6k gold without any precious items in shops.

I hear you, but it was a read identify, so have to make a decision on the spot.
I have an excellent weapon, all my armour slots are filled, don't need blood, etc. There will be more scrolls of acquirement that come along, if not, I'll be fine without. I posted it because I found it highly amusing at what the game gave me when I asked for ammunition.

I just don't get how do you manage to play a stabber wearing ring mail and a shield, lacking hexes and having only 2.2 short blades skill at XL:14... Of course, you do have javelins, needles and evocables, the ability to fly away from most of enemies and probably lots of patience to help you out, but lacking a consistent killing tool would really bother me if i were you.
Speaking of the first found acquirement, i usually go with weapon on stabbers, because at the point when i can find this scroll, the only unseen short blade type is usually the desired quick blade. So i have a decent chance to acquire it.
Yeah, ammo acquirement can be nice at times: once i've got 40(!) curare needles out of it. But it's more of a lottery.

Playing a stabber can be done a few ways. In the case of this above assassin, coupled with the heavy stealth skill - I chose to try the needle / blowgun route. If I were to go into spell casting debilitations (hexes), then he would become another "enchanter stabber".
The ringmail isn't "that" bad, if you notice I'm at incredible stealth. I'm wearing that, because I have not found any suitable robes or leather armour yet. Shields, as far as I know, do not impede stealth ability.
My "consistent killing tool" is my dagger(s), when I thrust it into a sleeping monsters' jugular. If a dangerous one is awake, I leave it for later, or if I feel threatened - use a needle on it. Against run-of-the-mill monsters, I can melee, throw stuff, whatever. I start the game with 2.2 in short blade skill. I just have not had a reason to turn it on yet.
On stabbers, an ordinary dagger is just fine for everything in the game, and on this guy I have one of venom - which is fantastic at this point. (If you read the thread in my signature, you'll see where I killed everything in the Realm of Zot with an ordinary -2,-4 dagger.) The ammo acquirement was the first time I ever tried that, because of this characters' concept.

[Sandman25]

I hear you, but it was a read identify, so have to make a decision on the spot.
I have an excellent weapon, all my armour slots are filled, don't need blood, etc. There will be more scrolls of acquirement that come along, if not, I'll be fine without. I posted it because I found it highly amusing at what the game gave me when I asked for ammunition.

I use quite the opposite approach - I don't ask for armour if some my slots are empty because I don't want to receive a +0 cloak or +0 shield. If I have all armour slots filled but some of them are brandless, I acquire armour.

[rebthor]

Gold acquirement is absolutely worthless unless you're a) looking to buy something in a shop or b) looking for Zig money. Literally every other type of acquirement is better barring the previous sentence. Well, maybe not food, but at least you can use the food for something immediately.

[Tiktacy]

Gold acquirement is absolutely worthless unless you're a) looking to buy something in a shop or b) looking for Zig money. Literally every other type of acquirement is better barring the previous sentence. Well, maybe not food, but at least you can use the food for something immediately.

Food acquirement saved one of my 15 rune runs once, actually. I found an acquirement scroll while wondering around hopelessly in pandemonium after a particularly brutal battle with mnoleg(more like a brutal battle with mneqotoxins) that ended up bringing me below 0 int, even with all of my precautionary int+ items. after finding it, I immediately chose food, and acquired 8 royal jellies, saving my entire run from ending prematurely.

It was an awesome run, had fun blasting pan lords and greater mummies with hellfire. It was very satisfying to finally be "that really annoying demon with hellfire" for once.

[rebthor]

I wasn't trying to say that food acquirement was worthless by any means. What I was trying to indicate was that in general you should acquire something that is useful. Gold is only useful to buy things. If there's nothing you want to buy then it is completely worthless. For most characters food is similarly worthless because there is so much of it in the dungeon.

[Tiktacy]

I tried playing an ogre hunter that based his strategy around using blowgun and giant clubs. It was actually really fun, I would use portal projectile to frenzy powerful enemies like orc knights, trolls, hill giants, greater nagas, and agnese. Probably the funniest one was when I accidentally put saint roka in a frenzy, I wasn't expected him to be effected, so I attempted to frenzy a high priest right in front of him but failed and it hit him instead. Needless to say, it was quite the massacre...

I ended up dying to the 27-head lernean hydra due to teleportitus. Probably the best ogre Ive ever run, if not for teleportitus, I would have won easily. Okuwaru was being a total bitch though, he kept giving me rocks and terrible armour, I only got one giant club from him the whole game(but it was a pretty good one, so I shouldn't be complaining).

[Sandman25]

I ended up dying to the 27-head lernean hydra due to teleportitus.

Did you try to increase the fun by doing mutation roulette?