CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)


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Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Saturday, 26th November 2011, 15:20

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 02:25

CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Here's my full dump: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Tenfire/Tenfire.txt

The essential points, I think, are:

32 Str, 14 Int, 12 Dex
EV: ~3-5, unless I equip a longbow of evasion
AC: ~47 with +inv-branded good randart chain mail and excellent yet ponderous centaur barding; +~20 or -~10 based on whether I go for another barding or a +19 plate armour instead.
Main weapons: ~200 unbranded arrows, ~400-500 branded arrows, longbows of frost/flame/vorpal, unarmed combat (no forms).
Skills: 27 Bows, 24 Fighting, 22 Unarmed Combat, 14 Armour, 14 Shields, 10 Spellcasting, 14 Charms, 12 Air Magic, 9 Evocations, no traps (I've entered Zot traps ~3-4 times and luckily not mutated).
Spells: Portal Projectile, Blink, Repel Missiles, Flight, Swiftness, Apportation, Summon Butterflies; also Haste and Deflect Missiles as long as I'm not wearing plate armour (the hunger cost is high).

Here are the items I have on the floor (so they're not in the above dump) that I'm also considering make use of:

  Code:
Hand Weapons            (select all with ))
 a - an uncursed blowgun
 b - a +5,+0 longbow of evasion
Missiles                (select all with ()
 c - 21 arrows of dispersal
 d - 117 arrows of flame
 e - 121 arrows of frost
 f - 137 arrows
 g - 16 curare-tipped needles
 h - 127 poisoned arrows
Armour                  (select all with [)
 i - a +2 elven buckler of protection
 j - a +2 centaur barding of fire resistance
 k - a +2 centaur barding of cold resistance
 l - the +19 crystal plate armour of Qoqadgh {Dam+4}
 m - the +0 helmet "Ghekoepu" {Acc+2 Dam+6}
 n - the -1 helmet of Xefydgh {rC+ Int+2}
 o - a +2 plumed helmet of see invisible
 p - a large shield of reflection
 q - the +10 plate armour of the Snail {+Blink +Inv rN+ Acc+3 SInv}
 r - the +3 ring mail of Phuecl Ashrer {+Inv MR Acc+5 SInv}
 s - the +3 shield of the Mutiny {MR SInv}
Wands
 t - a wand of fire (6)
Scrolls                 (select all with ?)
 u - 6 scrolls of blinking
 v - 12 scrolls of enchant armour
 w - 3 scrolls of fog
 x - 3 scrolls of holy word
 y - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 z - a scroll of silence
 A - 13 scrolls of teleportation
 B - a scroll of torment
Jewellery
 C - an uncursed ring of wizardry
Potions                 (select all with !)
 D - 7 potions of agility
 E - 7 potions of brilliance
 F - 7 potions of curing
 G - 7 potions of heal wounds
 H - 6 potions of invisibility
 I - 6 potions of magic
 J - 3 potions of might
 K - a potion of resistance
 L - 4 potions of restore abilities
 M - 2 potions of speed
Magical Staves
 N - an uncursed staff of energy

I also have many more wands (and ID and remove curse scrolls--but those are prep items, probably not ones I'll take with me to the orb vault) in another stash. I have tons of food--~13 more bread rations and ~10+ meat rations.

On top of that, I have 3 beneficial mutation, 3 acquirement, 1 experience (just found it), and 1 cure mutation.

My buckler makes my firing speed ~.71 instead of .6 (so I guess I take on average +20% more damage while firing) but I really like my buckler's properties.

I'm currently at my stash in the lair, preparing my inventory and equipment for Zot:5 and the orb vault. At this point, I just want to get the orb and win.

I'd like to ask the forum, especially those skilled/experienced with this type of character, for both general and specific advice.

1. Any tips on how I could have balanced my skills better? I basically raised bows and fighting and then had no idea, so I tried to get some useful charms, and then I realized that UC was killing things as well or better than my bow, so I went into that. This is my first time playing a centaur (not my first win or almost-win), and the first time I've gotten past the mid-game with a "non-caster". By the way, I know that I'm fairly terrible (given my turn count), so feel free to offer frank, dramatic advice. What should I use my potion of experience on right now?
2. Does beneficial mutation ignore my mutation resistance mutation, or should I quaff cure mutation before I quaff my 3 beneficial mutation potions?
3. What should I acquire? I can never decide, so I never use it... Not gold.
4. What should I use my enchant weapon scrolls on? The vorpal longbow?
5. Does anyone notice anything I should really worry about in the orb vault? I've cleared it 3-4 times before, but I can't remember well offhand what's there. Ancient liches will be troublesome, and maybe orbs of fire too but I haven't faced one yet in Zot. Electric golems seems like they'll be a problem. Were there greater mummies in the orb vault?
6. What armor will work best in the orb vault? Ponderousness seems like it'll be more trouble than it's worth now that I'm going to be trying to pull enemies and shoot them instead of melee'ing them. And I could really use some cold resistance. So I was thinking of replacing my current fixedart barding with my rC+ barding. I kind of want to make up for the AC with that plate armor, Deflect Missiles was never that usable anyway given the hunger cost, but if I don't mind food costs and plan to attract as few enemies as possible for short individual battles and plan to fight at range which makes GDR irrelevant, maybe large amounts of Deflect Missiles + permafood consumption would help me more than the extra AC? Am I on the right track with my line of thinking?
7. As an unstealthy centaur, can I do just half of the orb vault, read a scroll of teleport, pick up the orb a turn or two later (before it activates), and then flee (hoping I didn't teleport into the other half of the vault)?
"Maturity: among other things, the unclouded happiness of the child at play, who takes it for granted that he is at one with his play-mates."
- Dag Hammarskjöld
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Shoals Surfer

Posts: 311

Joined: Wednesday, 15th August 2012, 07:13

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 03:21

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

1. I would've ignored UC in favor of more Armor or more Spell skills. 27 Bow is plenty good for killing, and works just fine in close combat. Your problem is that your bows don't have much +Damage... you have a ton of slaying though, so don't sweat it.
2. Don't bother quaffing Beneficial Mutation or Cure Mutation. Slotless Mutation Resistance is pretty cool against Orbs.
3. I'd acquire Wands, for more Haste and Healing.
4. The Vorpal bow will work adequately on everything, and you can swap to branded arrows if need be.
5. As long as you fight things 1 v 1, the only things you'll have to worry about are Fiend-Summoning Ancient Liches and Berserk Orb Guardians. You have Relec and ranged, so Electric Golems are going to be a joke.
6. Put on the +19 crystal plate armour of Qoqadgh {Dam+4}, and keep the Black Knight barding. You're still decently fast even with Ponderousness, and you have Potions and Wands for Haste. You have a Ring of rC+, put it on instead of sustenance- 1 level of cold resist is more than enough for Zot. I'd also consider putting on that Helmet with +6 slaying.
7. You should be able to do one lung, pick up the orb, and simply trot out with Haste. If you're feeling paranoid, just kill both lungs- but a teleport would be grossly unnecessary for this character.

Now, I don't want you to get overconfident and die, but your character is ridiculous strong for a 3 runer. Seriously. Upon seeing that crap, my jaw dropped and my mouth was opened like a choko pillowcase. I don't think you quite appreciate how buff 60+ AC will make you. Fight everything 1v1, use Heroism and maybe Finesse, and you should pincushion everything.

I'm no expert with Unarmed Combat, but I suspect that with Heroism, it'll do more damage than your bow, so feel free to trample anything that closes to melee.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 03:34

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Also the damage bonus on the bow is multipiled increased by your stats and skills (after a fashion) and so bonus damage on your bow is more helpful than direct slaying damage.
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Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 09:11

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Now that you're about to enter deep Zot, some last-minute Traps skill training would be good. UC is maybe slightly over-trained given your main killing tool is arrows, but it's not a bad choice (and it's now a fine primary killing tool).

You would need another 10 levels or so in Charms to cast Haste in CRYSTAL plate armour. If you're about to do the orb run, no point trying to get that trained now.


The only ways I can see this character dying at Zot:5 is either being horribly mutated through the innate rMut you have (i.e. lure orbs of fire around corners and punch them in melee to minimise mutation chances); or foolishly sticking around when an Ancient Lich summons a Fiend.

Mines Malingerer

Posts: 37

Joined: Saturday, 26th November 2011, 15:20

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 09:23

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Thanks for all the advice, wizzzargh.

Okawaru gave me a lot of good randart armour. And I just realized that keeping Swiftness up will counteract ponderousness, so I'll just rely on that and take your advice on the barding.

Using acquirement on wands sounds like a satisfactory decision. I'd been tempted to try for a longbow with +Inv/SInv/rF, but I'd probably just get terrible weapons and regret it. Out of my 33 weapon/armour (non-missile) god gifts, Okawaru gave me 5 randart bows and 2 randart longbows, and only 1 of the latter was usable.

I'm still wavering on the crystal plate armour (I didn't notice until just now that it was different from the ordinary plate armour... I'm not used to having to pay attention to the difference). Evocable invisibility, castable Deflect Missiles, and 1 more level of rF/rN are nice bonuses with the chain mail, but I'm going to try the CPA with this character and see how it works. You're probably correct that either way, I have excellent chances to clear Zot:5. And even with CPA on, I can cast Repel Missiles and Swiftness at 3%, which is far from terrible. I have 63 AC / 2 EV after I put on the helmet and CPA and keep the barding.

Siegurt: I highly appreciate that tip. I forgot to mention that I have 11 enchant weapon II scrolls (and 2 enchant weapon III) in another pile, so I should hopefully be able to get my vorpal longbow to max or near max damage. I was looking at the equation at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Ranged_Combat#Damage but it's hard to figure out what it means practically.

Edit: Noticed another reply just now (Psieye). If I try to keep Flight active, I think my major problem will just be zot traps... I suppose it won't hurt to raise Traps up a bit instead of Translocations if I'm getting a lot of exp. Something probabilistic like the traps skill has always seemed to me like a luxury affordable to those with a good aptitude in it (I realized that my opinion is dumb and might be what decides my death if I'm trying to flee with low health). I'll try to be careful about the orb of fire mutation attacks. Also noticed another reply after this post. Sandman, that's good to know. I don't have Crawl installed on this computer and am lazy, but one day I may learn to use that like I learned how to watch replays.

Edit a day later:

Victory: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Tenfire/mor ... 234426.txt

The lungs were amazingly sparse, with only 2 orbs of fire (I was hit with mutating attacks ~6 times with my rMut amulet + mutation on, and was mutated once) and 1 ancient lich, and everything else was trivial. One of the orbs of fire was killed entirely using Portal Projectile with an Orb Guardian between us. I only zapped a wand once, and it was a wand I had to return to my stash to retrieve (a wand of disintegration for a silver statue). I didn't use any potions or scrolls, and I had no problem drawing out 1-2 monsters at a time.

I trained traps up to 10 (!experience took it from 0 to 4.6), then raise Translocations to reduce Portal Projectile/Blink failure from 28% to 3%, then finished up the game with Fighting 24.0->24.5.

The next time I play a non-caster like this, I'll try to win with a far lower turn count (it should certainly be possible with a strong combo like CeHu). It's rare that I have the chance to receive advice from others (especially on what skills to focus on) so I hope to make indirect use of it in future games too.
Last edited by Mumcon on Friday, 3rd May 2013, 00:00, edited 3 times in total.
"Maturity: among other things, the unclouded happiness of the child at play, who takes it for granted that he is at one with his play-mates."
- Dag Hammarskjöld

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 09:27

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Mumcon wrote:I was looking at the equation at http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Ranged_Combat#Damage but it's hard to figure out what it means practically.


You can use fsim to compare +0 longbow with +9 longbow.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Thursday, 2nd May 2013, 15:02

Re: CIP: 3-rune CeHu about to do Zot:5 (looking for advice)

Zot traps, teleport traps and alarm traps. These can screw you even if you aren't at low health if you're doing Zot:5.

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