CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

Saturday, 9th March 2013, 23:39 by Thalfon

So I've been having some luck with this DrTm, I've managed to clear out most of Lair:8 (skipped a couple hydrae on each of the last two floors, plus the dire elephants). My wandering about Lair:8 paid off though when I picked up a book with Haste in it.

So now I'm not quite sure what to build next. I've been keeping 20% in fighting because I've picked up a manual of fighting, and that's been enough to skyrocket it without leeching too much off my other skills. I feel like training Air for a little would be a better short-term decision to get Mephitic Cloud functional than Charms (since I really have no Charms spells other than Haste that I really want online, and Haste will take a while). But at the same time I'm worried I've left UC a little low (I'm done Lair at 13.7 UC) and Blade Hands is still at ##### hunger, so I feel like I need to think about Spellcasting a bit too.

If I've done my arithmetic right, I can get M.Cloud under 10% fail with only a few levels in Air. So should I do that, then focus UC/SC for a bit? I think I need >12 in Charms to get Haste under 10% (although SC will reduce that a bit) which is a lot of levelling without any gain in the interim. Also, do I keep trickling points into Fighting in the mean time for the free XP from the manual, or leave it for now?

Also, I'm not sure if I should wander into Orc just yet. That's how I got my last (Black) DrTm killed (in part because the only way to get to most of Orc:1-3 was via Orc:4, and I got too cocky whilst there -- also, that character wasn't with Nem, and lacked escapes), and this character is around the same ballpark level and skill wise. (Also, the now-dead character had Blade Hands at lower hunger.) I hit Lair at D:9 this time, so perhaps just dive in D a bit further first?

I'll put the dump first, and then the spells/stuff I have at my stash below in case that makes a difference. I've gathered a fair bit of junk lol.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-2612-g8f33a4f (console) character file. Thalfon the Grappler (Pale Draconian Transmuter) Turns: 25155, Time: 04:02:20 HP 104/104 AC 13 Str 14 XL: 12 Next: 52% MP 26/26 EV 12 Int 17 God: Nemelex Xobeh [*****.] Gold 987 SH 0 Dex 18 Spells: 6 memorised, 9 levels left Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : . - Unarmed Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . (armour unavailable) Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : . (helmet restricted) Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . r - +1 dwarf cloak Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . L - +1 pair of elf gloves {Dex+3} Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . G - +0 pair of boots Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . b - amulet of rage Saprovore : . . . Flight : . v - ring of protection from fire W - +3 ring of dexterity @: studying Fighting, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy A: breathe steam, unfitting armour, AC +8 a: Breathe Steam, Draw One, Peek at Two, Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts. You worship Nemelex Xobeh. Nemelex Xobeh is exalted by your worship. You are not hungry. You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 18 of its levels. You have also visited: Bailey and Volcano. You have collected 1122 gold pieces. You have spent 155 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons f - a blowgun Missiles e - 49 darts (quivered) U - 51 poisoned needles Armour r - a +1 dwarven cloak (worn) G - a +0 pair of boots (worn) L - a +1 pair of elven gloves of dexterity (worn) Magical devices h - a wand of heal wounds {zapped: 3} n - a wand of lightning {zapped: 1} u - a wand of digging {zapped: 1} w - a wand of disintegration y - a wand of confusion {zapped: 9} N - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 1} S - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1} X - a jewelled bone wand Comestibles A - 7 meat rations Scrolls d - a scroll of teleportation q - 3 scrolls of fear H - 2 scrolls of blinking J - 3 scrolls of remove curse Z - 3 scrolls of fog Jewellery b - an amulet of rage (around neck) v - a ring of protection from fire (right hand) F - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities W - a +3 ring of dexterity (left hand) Potions a - a murky inky potion o - 2 potions of speed p - 4 potions of brilliance s - 3 potions of heal wounds t - a potion of flight x - 5 potions of curing C - a potion of agility M - a potion of resistance P - a potion of magic V - a metallic black potion Y - a black potion Books K - a manual of Fighting (studied) You are currently studying this manual. Miscellaneous g - a plain deck of summonings {drawn: 1} {god gift} z - an ornate deck of destruction {drawn: 1} {god gift} B - a legendary deck of destruction {drawn: 1} {god gift} I - a plain deck of defence {drawn: 1} O - a legendary deck of escape {drawn: 5} {god gift} R - a plain deck of destruction {drawn: 7} {god gift} Skills: + Level 13.0 Fighting - Level 1.7 Dodging * Level 13.7 Unarmed Combat - Level 7.8 Spellcasting - Level 11.4 Transmutations - Level 2.9 Poison Magic - Level 6.1 Evocations You have 9 spell levels left. You know the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger a - Beastly Appendage Trmt ######. 1% 1 None b - Spider Form Trmt/Pois #####..... 1% 3 ##..... c - Blade Hands Trmt ######.... 3% 5 #####.. d - Cure Poison Pois ####...... 6% 2 None e - Mephitic Cloud Conj/Pois/Air ##....... 24% 3 ##..... f - Flight Chrm/Air ##........ 38% 3 ##..... Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (9/27) Temple (1/1) D:5 Orc (0/4) D:8 Lair (8/8) D:9 Shoals (0/5) Lair:4 Snake (0/5) Lair:5 Slime (0/6) Lair:7 Altars: Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin Jiyva Shops: D:5: ? Annotations D:8 SaintWacko's ghost, experienced MiGl D:9 2 exclusions Lair:1 exclusions: hydra and 1 more exclusion Lair:4 exclusions: door, 3 oklob plants and oklob sapling Lair:7 exclusion: 2 hydras Lair:8 exclusion: 2 hydras Message History You drop a choko. You drop a scroll of enchant armour. You drop a Young Poisoner's Handbook. You drop 3 bread rations. You drop a scroll of enchant weapon I. You drop 2 scrolls of remove curse. You drop a book of Enchantments. You drop a +0 elven cloak. Items here: !!!! "" %%%%% ((( /// ::::: == ???????? }} This spell is slightly dangerous to cast. Memorise Flight, consuming 3 spell levels and leaving 9? You start memorising the spell. You continue memorising. You continue memorising. You finish memorising. This spell is too difficult to memorise! This spell is too difficult to memorise! This spell is too difficult to memorise! Okay, then. New annotation for Lair:2 (include '!' for warning): Save game and exit? #..#...# ......####### #..##..#.##.##### ##........^.....## .....##..#..#..#.### ..#.###..#.....##..# .##..........#...#.#### ###.f.....#.##.<.##...# #.......#..P.[@#.##.# #...........###.###.## #.##.##.P#.#.#.####..######## #..#.##.##.##.## #..#.......# ###.......##.########..f.####.# .##................##..#f.###.# ..#.......#.......#..#.§§#.#P.## ....................##§§§##.#..# .....#....#..........#§§§#.##.## There are no monsters in sight! Vanquished Creatures A griffon (Lair:7) 2 elephant slugs 5 humans (D:8) A feature mimic (Lair:3) 9 spiny frogs Grinder (D:5) A komodo dragon (Lair:6) 2 trolls 2 polar bears 11 blink frogs 3 basilisks A shark (Lair:4) 2 fire elementals (Volcano) 26 yaks 2 fire drakes A fire vortex (Volcano) 4 hippogriffs Edmund (D:6) 4 war dogs (Lair:3) Menkaure (D:5) 6 orc warriors An ice beast (D:8) 2 giant goldfish (Lair:4) 2 phantoms A sky beast (D:8) 7 crocodiles A wolf (Lair:2) A centaur (D:8) 3 nagas (Lair:3) 10 ogres Duvessa (D:6) 3 giant slugs 10 water moccasins 7 agate snails 11 giant frogs 6 killer bees (D:9) A quasit (D:9) A crimson imp (D:6) 11 hounds Dowan (D:6) A big fish (Lair:4) A hound skeleton (D:8) 5 orc priests 3 scorpions 8 orc wizards 8 worker ants 4 iguanas A deep elf soldier (D:9) 9 porcupines A jelly (D:9) A mummy (D:9) 19 adders 4 gnolls (D:8) 48 green rats 11 worms 4 giant mites A bat skeleton (D:4) 3 giant eyeballs 10 giant geckos 31 orcs A ball python (D:1) 9 giant cockroaches 14 hobgoblins 16 jackals 22 bats 6 giant newts 15 goblins A hobgoblin zombie (D:5) 16 kobolds 13 quokkas 30 rats A rat skeleton (D:4) 2 ballistomycetes (D:9) 2 fungi 5 plants 492 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A black mamba (Lair:3) A spiny frog (Lair:2) A basilisk (Lair:2) 3 crocodiles 2 agate snails An adder (Lair:2) A bat (Lair:3) A rat (Lair:3) A fungus (Lair:3) 12 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A small abomination (Lair:4) A porcupine (Lair:2) 2 adders A hobgoblin (D:8) A quokka (D:6) A giant spore (D:9) 2 kobolds 2 rats 5 fungi 2 plants (Lair:8) 18 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 522 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Thalfon, the Draconian Transmuter, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 16/16 MP: 1/1 278 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 21/23 MP: 3/3 955 | D:1 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 28/28 MP: 4/4 1478 | D:2 | Reached skill level 4 in Unarmed Combat 1567 | D:2 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/35 MP: 6/6 2461 | D:3 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 37/40 MP: 5/7 2651 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Unarmed Combat 2975 | D:3 | Found a shimmering altar of Xom. 3377 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 3399 | D:4 | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog. 3640 | D:4 | Got a steaming ring mail 3847 | D:4 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 47/47 MP: 9/9 3858 | D:4 | Noticed a phantom 3948 | D:4 | Reached skill level 6 in Unarmed Combat 3968 | D:4 | Killed a phantom 4188 | D:4 | Reached skill level 7 in Unarmed Combat 4263 | D:4 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 4314 | D:4 | Noticed an ogre 4352 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 4352 | D:4 | Your scales start fading to a pale cyan-grey colour. 4352 | D:4 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 32/52 MP: 8/10 4507 | D:4 | Killed an ogre 4870 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 4943 | D:4 | Reached skill level 8 in Unarmed Combat 4956 | D:5 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 4969 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 4973 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Nemelex Xobeh 4985 | Temple | Learned a level 3 spell: Spider Form 4991 | Temple | Learned a level 5 spell: Blade Hands 5041 | D:3 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 5041 | D:3 | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's first power 5146 | D:5 | Noticed Grinder 5147 | D:5 | Paralysed by Grinder for 4 turns 5179 | D:5 | Paralysed by Grinder for 7 turns 5207 | D:5 | Killed Grinder 5382 | D:5 | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns 5606 | D:5 | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's second power 5614 | D:5 | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados. 5637 | D:5 | Found Roagaota's Magic Scroll Shop. 5643 | D:5 | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces 5643 | D:5 | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 30 gold pieces 5643 | D:5 | Bought a scroll of remove curse for 30 gold pieces 5643 | D:5 | Bought a scroll of fear for 35 gold pieces 5643 | D:5 | Bought 2 scrolls of identify for 40 gold pieces 5878 | D:5 | Noticed Menkaure 5884 | D:5 | Killed Menkaure 5884 | D:5 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 36/60 MP: 10/12 6264 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Transmutations 6282 | D:6 | Noticed Edmund 6311 | D:6 | Killed Edmund 6576 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations 6874 | D:6 | Noticed Dowan 7014 | D:6 | Reached skill level 9 in Unarmed Combat 7271 | D:6 | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet. 7413 | D:6 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 7669 | D:6 | Noticed Duvessa 7678 | D:6 | Killed Dowan 7683 | D:6 | Killed Duvessa 7752 | D:7 | Found a flagged portal. 7898 | D:7 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 62/66 MP: 11/13 7931 | Bailey | Entered a bailey 8292 | D:7 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 8371 | D:7 | Noticed a troll 8387 | D:7 | Killed a troll 9663 | D:8 | Noticed a human 9686 | D:8 | Killed a human 9686 | D:8 | Reached skill level 10 in Unarmed Combat 9841 | D:8 | Noticed SaintWacko's ghost (experienced MiGl) 10039 | D:8 | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's third power 10270 | D:8 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 10358 | D:8 | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations 10997 | D:8 | Reached XP level 10. HP: 74/77 MP: 15/18 11546 | D:9 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 11603 | D:9 | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting 11617 | D:9 | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fourth power 12122 | D:9 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 12634 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 12694 | Lair:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts 13040 | Lair:1 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 13088 | Lair:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Transmutations 13372 | Lair:1 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 14630 | Lair:2 | HP: 3/82 [yak (5)] 15061 | Lair:2 | Reached skill level 11 in Transmutations 15404 | Lair:2 | Reached XP level 11. HP: 71/90 MP: 20/20 15803 | Lair:2 | You fall through a shaft! 15965 | Lair:3 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 16034 | Lair:3 | the staircase to the Snake Pit was a mimic. 16567 | Lair:2 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 17966 | Lair:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting 18573 | Lair:3 | Noticed a death yak 18574 | Lair:3 | Noticed a death yak 18941 | Lair:4 | Acquired Nemelex Xobeh's fifth power 19334 | Lair:4 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 19611 | Lair:4 | Found a staircase to the Shoals. 20025 | Lair:5 | Found a staircase to the Snake Pit. 20075 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 20095 | Lair:5 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 20369 | Lair:5 | Reached skill level 12 in Unarmed Combat 20949 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 20950 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 20950 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 20952 | Lair:5 | Noticed a death yak 20989 | Lair:3 | Noticed a death yak 21515 | Lair:6 | Reached XP level 12. HP: 102/102 MP: 23/25 21756 | Lair:6 | Received a gift from Nemelex Xobeh 21985 | Lair:6 | Found a dark tunnel. 22001 | Volcano | Entered a volcano 22710 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 13 in Unarmed Combat 23156 | Lair:7 | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits. 23157 | Lair:7 | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva. 23550 | Lair:7 | Noticed a four-headed hydra 23671 | Lair:7 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 23796 | Lair:7 | Learned a level 2 spell: Cure Poison 23800 | Lair:7 | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud 23959 | Lair:7 | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic 23980 | Lair:8 | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts 24214 | Lair:8 | Noticed an eight-headed hydra 24332 | Lair:8 | Noticed a dire elephant 24397 | Lair:8 | Noticed a seven-headed hydra 25155 | Lair:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Flight Action | 1- 3 | 4- 6 | 7- 9 | 10-12 || total -------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++------- Melee: Unarmed | 154 | 317 | 450 | 1261 || 2182 Throw: Dart | 43 | 2 | 62 | 233 || 340 Dagger | 3 | 1 | | || 4 Stone | 2 | 4 | | || 6 Cast: Beastly Appendage | 9 | 28 | 38 | 95 || 170 Blade Hands | | | | 1 || 1 Cure Poison | | | | 1 || 1 Invok: Draw One | | | 4 | 17 || 21 Peek at Two | | | 3 | 6 || 9 Triple Draw | | | | 2 || 2 Abil: Breathe Steam | | | 16 | 21 || 37 Evoke Berserk Rag | | | | 1 || 1 Evoke: Wand | | | 8 | 24 || 32 Use: Scroll | 4 | 8 | 9 | 10 || 31 Potion | | 1 | 1 | 5 || 7

Stash and Spellbooks:

Code:: a - 11 javelins b - 6 needles of confusion c - a poisoned dart Wands (select all with /) d - a wand of fire (0) e - a wand of frost {zapped: 4} f - a wand of random effects {zapped: 1} Comestibles (select all with %) g - 2 apples h - 9 bread rations i - 4 chokos j - 17 grapes k - a pear Scrolls (select all with ?) l - 2 scrolls labeled FEMMEKL MUTHREO {tried on robe, recharging} m - 4 scrolls of amnesia n - a scroll of enchant armour o - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon I p - 5 scrolls of enchant weapon II q - 2 scrolls of magic mapping r - 11 scrolls of remove curse s - 2 scrolls of teleportation Jewellery (select all with "=) t - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion u - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation v - an uncursed blackened granite ring {tried} w - a +1 ring of evasion Potions (select all with !) x - 4 potions of berserk rage y - a potion of cure mutation z - 6 potions of curing A - a potion of restore abilities Books (select all with +:) B - a Young Poisoner's Handbook C - a book of Dreams D - a book of Enchantments E - a book of Unlife Miscellaneous (select all with }) F - an air elemental fan G - a crystal ball of energy Available Spells: a - Sting Conjuration/Poison 10% 1 b - Ensorcelled Hibernation Hexes/Ice 21% 2 c - Recall Summoning/Translocation 38% 3 d - Olgreb's Toxic Radiance Poison 38% 4 e - Animate Dead Necromancy 95% 4 f - Cause Fear Hexes 95% 4 g - Control Undead Necromancy 95% 4 h - Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 99% 5 i - Phase Shift Translocation 100% 5 j - Shadow Creatures Summoning 100% 5 k - Silence Hexes/Air 100% 5 l - Tukima's Dance Hexes 100% 5 m - Twisted Resurrection Necromancy 100% 5 n - Death Channel Necromancy 100% 6 o - Deflect Missiles Charms/Air 100% 6 p - Haste Charms 100% 6 q - Mass Confusion Hexes 100% 6 r - Simulacrum Ice/Necromancy 100% 6 s - Darkness Hexes 100% 7

Sunday, 10th March 2013, 01:58 by some12fat2move

I think I seriously overestimate haste

Sunday, 10th March 2013, 06:44 by mikee

I know very well how to build a strong drtm of nemelex, but I never know how to answer this type of post. It's sort of like someone is asking if he should stab himself in the eye or the ear. I think I will just pretend this is somehow my character and I want to make a plan for its skills.

1) The first thing I need to do is train spellcasting from 7.8 to 8.0. Spellcasting's break points are every 0.5.
2) Fighting needs to be off right now and needs to stay off for a while.
3) Dodging needs to be up, probably to at least 12 or so.
4) Unarmed combat is my next priority, to at least 15.
5) Traps to 5.
6) Evocations to 10.
7) Spellcasting to 10.
8) Evocations to 14.
9) Traps to 8.6.
10) Unarmed combat to maybe 20.
11) Spellcasting to 12.
12) Charms to 10 or more unarmed combat.

I do not want mephitic cloud. The spell hunger of blade hands will take care of itself as long as: A) I am at least sometimes eating chunks; and B) I am making my character strong and versatile enough that it does not need blade hands to win every single fight.

Sunday, 10th March 2013, 11:28 by Psieye

Meph has become obsolete by now - you've cleared Lair and Orc alone isn't worth getting the spell for. It's an earlygame crutch to help you deal with your first few orc priest/wizard bands and some earlier uniques. This character no longer needs that help, especially as you've somewhat overtrained fighting a bit.

Now is not the time to get Haste up - around Vaults will be when it will naturally be something to invest in but until then you need to work on defence. Dodging and Evo both need some work, UC isn't quite there either.

Personally I would have learnt Ice form so I can eat poisonous chunks and snakespam so I can run away but you have Nemelex to cover the latter and the former isn't strictly essential.

The next big spell to look out for is Dragon Form. If it hasn't shown up by the time you've worked on Dodging, UC and Evo, work towards Phase Shift.

CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

Re: CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

Re: CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

Re: CIP: Pale DrTm of Nem, not sure what to build next

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