YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk


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Lair Larrikin

Posts: 18

Joined: Friday, 26th August 2011, 22:35

Post Saturday, 16th February 2013, 01:41

YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

After a long time not playing Crawl, I came back recently - mainly because I was still on the list of people to notify for a particular issue on Mantis, and now that it's been resolved by somebody else (sorry!) I got emails about the progress of the patch, reminding me that it's been a while since I played.

So I've been playing the latest version. Since I'm a developer, I've also been testing out features on trunk, including some of the experimental branches. I did very well on one of the characters, ending in a 15-rune win, and so here we are - a victory post along with some comments on trunk features.

I played this game off of trunk with 2 experimental branches merged in:

1. Eronarn's Lava Orc branch, which adds a new race to the game, Lava Orcs. They have similar aptitudes to hill orcs, but are better at fire and earth magic, worse at ranged combat, and have a special feature of gaining different abilities according to their "temperature". Dangerous situations make your temperature go up, until you light up with molten fire, gaining heavy fire resistance, enhancement to fire spells, and an aura that damages all adjacent monsters. However, you can't read scrolls while at maximum temperature.

2. The melee_linear_speed branch, which changes the formula for weapon minimum delay so that the benefit of each additional skill level has about the same effect on your final damage output. Also, as part of the changes, the formula for the strength bonus to melee damage has been changed to have a much larger (i.e. not miniscule) effect. I chose Cheibriados as a god to see if the strength bonus would be significant, since "make strength better" is a concrete proposal being discussed for improving Chei.

So - what actually happened?

I started as an FE and worked my way up the fire spells in a pretty standard way. An early find of a ring of magical power helped quite a bit, and Lava Orcs have an easy start, since the fire aura can annihilate some early threats.

I picked axes for a melee skill to use cleave - partly for testing, and partly because it makes sense on a Chei worshipper, since you often can't tactically maneuver to a corridor anyway.

One early stroke of luck was finding a labyrinth with useful loot in the lair, allowing me to get a few rods. I used a rod of venom / ignite poison as a poor man's firestorm for a brief period. A much bigger piece of luck was finding a treasure trove that had as its entry fee a wand of hasting - an item I couldn't use anyway as a Chei worshipper. It turned out to be a jewelry treasure trove with some extremely useful amulets. By the end of the game, I had artifact versions of rMut, clarity, rCorr, and Gourmand, along with some very useful rings.

A shop in Vaults:4 sold two scrolls of acquirement. One weapon acquirement gave me a vampiric executioner's axe, and that was pretty much guaranteed victory through the rest of Vaults and D. It's definitely the first time that I've cleared out the Vaults welcoming committee by holding down tab until the vault guards were gone. No stairdancing.

I then learned LCS, fire storm, and shatter and raided the extended end-game. 2 out of 5 Pandemonium runes were ninja'd with Shatter.

Although Lava Orcs can safely enter lava, I unexpectedly never used that for making shortcuts or getting into unusual places (that would normally require flight). I think I only really used it to immediately bring myself to rF+++ for handling lava-swimming monsters that spit fire attacks.

Close calls:
- Zapped by a freezing cloud spell in an Ice Cave portal, escaping to a blind spot with 1 HP left
- A Merfolk Javelineer with Ilsuiw in Shoals:5 spawns with a stack of 17 javelins of returning, and I can't read my scroll of blinking to get to the stairs because of the fire aura
- Paralyzed for 7 turns by Hell's mystical force at the same time a group of Hellions was summoned
- "I wonder why the strategy advice says you shouldn't use Fire Storm to clear Tomb:3? Let's find out!"

Comments on specific trunk features:

Lava Orcs:

They're definitely an easy species to start with - you can defeat many tough monsters by kiting until you hit maximum temperature, then going into melee range. Their only major weakness is having rC- some of the time, and you can fix that by wearing a ring of cold protection. That's not necessarily a problem, though. There's no rule which says that all new species must be bone-crushing challenge races with difficulty dialed to 11.

In practice, it's no big deal that you can't read scrolls at maximum temperature. Most dangerous situations become dangerous faster than your temperature gauge rises anyway, and there was only one situation in the entire game when I actually wanted to read a scroll and couldn't. In the extended endgame, I would typically only have the flame aura active when a teleport just kicked in (I read the scroll at 80% temp and escaped at 100%) or when I was stairdancing. This is my main criticism of the temperature effects - the fire aura is very powerful at first but the whole temperature gauge becomes fairly irrelevant by the end game. I would rather have a weaker effect at first and a stronger effect later on. The bonuses could be gated by experience level, like the way Nagas don't get constriction until XL 13, but having more than one condition set for when your mutations activate would be too complicated to explain.

Although I got the furthest as a Fire Elementalist, the temperature gauge was the most fun with a Berserker, since berserking gives you direct control over going into high temperature. It basically doubles down on the effects of berserk, since you immediately get maximum temperature but then always cool down to the minimum while exhausted afterwards.

The melee retaliation aura should be changed so that it only affects an enemy once per full round of attacks to match the way minotaur retaliation works - currently, an 8-headed hydra gets burned 8 times. Hitting melee retaliation temperature should probably cancel invisibility like glow does, and also break you out of constriction if the constricting monster is below a certain toughness and doesn't resist fire.

The fire aura is rather a problem for worshipping gods that grant minions. Death Knights should not be a recommended background for this race, because you WILL light up and blow away a bunch of your thralls on a regular basis.

I'm not the first person to say this, but there really is no justification for Lava Orcs being Orcs except that Eronarn decided to call them that. They don't fit in, and protecting allied orcs from the fire aura if you worship Beogh is just a hack to try and make them fit in. Unfortunately, I'm also not the first person to say that and then totally fail to come up with a better name for the species. Sorry.

New New Vaults:

The new layout has much more personality than the old one - you get the feeling that Vaults is, like its name, a branch made up of a series of rooms stacked end to end and top to bottom, full of guards and treasures and mazes and doors. I like it.

Cleaving:

Pretty much as intended, cleaving is a powerful bonus linked to a critical flaw: You can only cleave monsters if you're surrounded, which is in most cases a horrible tactical situation. There are times when it's very powerful, but you need to know your limits and carefully judge the threat of opponents, and of course you need to know if there's anything you would actually gain by dealing damage faster. It's now the signature ability of axes and poses a tactical puzzle to the player - a very good feature all around.

It does get more powerful in the late game when you're often dealing with one dangerous enemy and a large number of popcorn enemies. Cleaving lets you rapidly clear out a wave of summons, and "Crystal Spear the tormentor, cleave the survivors" was my standard operating procedure for dealing with hell effects that summon monsters.

It's rather ridiculous that you can cleave 7 enemies at once. I would say that reducing it to 5 adjacent squares would leave plenty of cleaving. Also, somewhat mundanely, there isn't any text anywhere in the game that tells you axes have this special ability.

The New Abyss:

I earned a lot of Frequent Abysser Miles while clearing Elf:3, and decided to just roll with it rather than trying to come back with improved magic resistance, since the Abyss has been changed and I'm playing trunk to do testing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The new monsters are definitely interesting and threatening - they're tough, but not impossible, for characters that are likely to suffer getting cast into the Abyss (i.e. low-MR characters in Elf 3). The temporary mutations from eldritch stars and stat draining from ancient zymes also make an Abyss escape something of an endurance run for young Abyss sufferers, which is good.

The chaos butterfly's summoned twister might be too strong. The tornado juggles you around, meaning that a melee character can't deal with it at all, and being hurled around makes it hard to escape. It feels like an instant DPS challenge - you MUST annihilate the chaos butterfly on the first turn you see it, or you'll probably take a beating and not get another clear shot.

The star-cursed masses were confusing (to me, the player, not to my character), because they come in a batch with messages saying they've appeared from nowhere or split off of other masses, which at first made me think the mass was a recursively self-summoning creature and I was meant to run away if I couldn't kill them en-masse.

Most of the actual threats in the Abyss were not from the exciting new monsters, though. Instead, it was being attacked by late-game monsters that simply outgunned me, like hell sentinels, hellions, or bone dragons. When I went back to get the Abyssal rune, I didn't have any problems with the monsters there except for being mildly malmutated, and nothing particularly exciting happened; at most, Abyss:5 has an extremely high spawn rate of enemies you can already deal with. The occasional large vault does, however, make the Abyss scenery much more interesting, especially if you witness the moment that a vault appears from or disappears into the random noise portion of the Abyss.

Melee Linear Speed:

The main effect of the linear speed changes for this character was to make battleaxes useful much earlier in the game, which seems like neither a good nor a bad change. Getting rid of the hard breakpoint - and the math that made it work that way - is a good change, though. Unless you knew the exact mathematical formula for weapon minimum delay, you wouldn't realize just how powerful it is to get the last few skill points for a weapon skill.

The strength formula change is very noticeable, especially for a Chei character (which is why I chose to worship Chei to test it). It's not that strength is outrageously good after the changes, just that it's actually... well... good at all. Having some effect - rather than almost no effect - is a noticeable change. In the discussion of the linear speed branch, it looks like there's some fear that the new strength formula makes melee characters too good. I would rather keep the strength formula and reduce the contribution of weapon skill proportionately, since weapon skills hugely boost your power as is. Even with the changed strength formula, putting points into Int if you plan to ever cast spells is still optimal.

Random Notes:

You can now use the Disc of Storms while having rElec, but it still doesn't feel worth it. I think it suffers from a lack of a clear niche - what is the ideal time to use this item, and what kind of character wants it? I tried carrying the disc, but simply didn't find situations where I would want to use it; if a situation is dangerous enough to need bonus firepower, I would rather have something more reliable, and if a situation is safe enough that I'm not worried about eating damage from friendly-fire lightning orbs, then I'd rather fight normally and not wake up the whole dungeon.

Acquirement gave me an axe of speed as a Chei worshipper, which I think is a bug. Or is it? Acquirement isn't guaranteed to be useful, but I thought it was guaranteed to provide a wearable item that your god doesn't hate.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-2237-g2983a30 (tiles) character file.

13113533 Thaserorc the Infernalist (level 27, 254/259 (268) HPs)
             Began as a Lava Orc Fire Elementalist on Feb 12, 2013.
             Was the Champion of Cheibriados.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Feb 14, 2013!
             
             The game lasted 15:29:21 (123181 turns).

Thaserorc the Infernalist (LOFE)                  Turns: 123181, Time: 15:29:21

HP 254/259 (268) AC 39     Str 28      XL: 27
MP  21/53        EV 39     Int 49      God: Cheibriados [******]
Gold 10534       SH  0     Dex 28      Spells: 15 memorised,  5 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +   a - +6,+5 dwarf executioner's axe (flame)
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   C - +5 mottled dragon armour of Quantum Leap {
Life Prot.: + + .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   I - +2 helmet of Miracles {+Inv rN+ Acc-3 SInv
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : +   p - +0 cloak of Starlight {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlt
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   y - +2 pair of gloves of Oblivion {rPois SInv}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   e - +2 pair of boots of the Assassin {+Inv Dex
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: x   T - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR}
Saprovore : + . .   Flight     : .   R - ring "Bloled" {MP+9 Str+1 Int+4}
                                     s - ring of Gehanuna {+Blink +Inv MR Int+2}

@: stone skin, very slow, uncannily resistant to hostile enchantments, very
unstealthy
A: conserve scrolls, saprovore 1, Dex -1
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Blink, Evoke Invisibility
}: 15/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 107 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 1 time, and saw 31 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 11 times.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Sewer, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You collected 15479 gold pieces.
You spent 4965 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +6,+5 dwarven executioner's axe of flaming (weapon)
 f - a +4,+3 battleaxe of freezing
 l - the +7,+2 executioner's axe of Gallantry {speed, Dex+2 Int+3}
   (You acquired it in Pandemonium)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause slightly less damage.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   
   Cheibriados disapproves of the use of such an item.
Armour
 e - the +2 pair of boots of the Assassin (worn) {+Inv Dex+3 Stlth++}
   (You acquired it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 p - the +0 cloak of Starlight (worn) {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlth--}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It makes you much less stealthy.
 y - the +2 pair of gloves of Oblivion (worn) {rPois SInv}
   (You found it on level 27 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It protects you from poison.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 C - the +5 mottled dragon armour of Quantum Leap (worn) {Str+2 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Iron City of Dis)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
 I - the +2 helmet of Miracles (worn) {+Inv rN+ Acc-3 SInv Stlth--}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   It affects your accuracy (-3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It makes you much less stealthy.
Magical devices
 j - a wand of heal wounds (5)
 q - a wand of teleportation (3)
 x - a wand of digging (7)
 A - a wand of teleportation (4)
 E - a wand of teleportation (4)
 K - a wand of heal wounds (7)
Comestibles
 z - 10 bread rations
 M - 4 meat rations
Scrolls
 c - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 d - 10 scrolls of remove curse
 g - 6 scrolls of identify
 m - 6 scrolls of blinking
 n - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 u - 3 scrolls of enchant armour
 H - a scroll of recharging
 Q - a scroll of holy word
Jewellery
 i - the ring "Heeraj" {rC++ Str+2}
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   [ring of strength]
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
 o - the amulet of Ylopuan {rMut Str+3 Dam+3}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Crypt)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+3).
 s - the ring of Gehanuna (left hand) {+Blink +Inv MR Int+2}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It lets you blink.
 w - the ring of Meataf {cTele Dex-4 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of teleport control]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (-4).
 F - the amulet "Clizem" {rCorr rElec rF++ rC+}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [amulet of resist corrosion]
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 J - the ring of Fuagodd {+Rage rPois rN+ Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 27 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of life protection]
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
   
   Cheibriados disapproves of the use of such an item.
 N - the ring "Dekkydu" {+/*TELE +Blink rN+ Int+2}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [ring of teleportation]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you blink.
 R - the ring "Bloled" (right hand) {MP+9 Str+1 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   It affects your strength (+1).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
 T - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR}
   (You found it on level 27 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
Potions
 b - a potion of magic
 k - 6 potions of curing
 r - 2 potions of heal wounds
 B - 3 potions of brilliance
 L - 5 potions of resistance
 U - 2 potions of restore abilities
Books
 h - a manual of Hexes
 v - a manual of Summonings
Magical staves
 S - an uncursed staff of channeling
Orbs of Power
 D - the Orb of Zot
Miscellaneous
 P - a crystal ball of energy
Rods
 t - a +4 lightning rod (14/14)
   (You took it off a balrug in Pandemonium)


   Skills:
 + Level 26.3 Fighting
 O Level 27 Axes
 + Level 25.4 Armour
 + Level 20.2 Dodging
 - Level 1.5 Stealth
 - Level 8.3 Traps
 - Level 21.9 Spellcasting
 - Level 23.4 Conjurations
 - Level 5.5 Charms
 - Level 8.2 Summonings
 - Level 5.3 Necromancy
 - Level 4.5 Translocations
   Level 8.9 Transmutations
 O Level 27 Fire Magic
 O Level 27 Earth Magic
 - Level 13.6 Invocations
 O Level 27 Evocations


You had 5 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          8    None
b - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          9    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #########    0%          3    None
d - Shatter               Erth           #########.   1%          9    None
e - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #########    0%          4    None
f - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   0%          5    None
g - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth #########.   0%          5    None
h - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ########..   1%          4    None
i - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          2    None
j - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   1%          3    None
k - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
l - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   1%          1    None
m - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ########.    0%          1    None
o - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #########.   0%          5    None
p - Flight                Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (27/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:8
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:12         Shoals (5/5) Lair:6
 Spider (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (6/6) Lair:8       Vaults (5/5) D:19
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:3      Crypt (5/5) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3
    Dis (7/7) Hell            Geh (7/7) Hell            Coc (7/7) Hell
    Tar (7/7) Hell            Zot (5/5) D:27       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:6: *  D:8: /  D:11: +  D:26: [  Orc:4: +%%=/  Elf:1: !  Shoals:3: [  Shoals:4: =  Shoals:5: [+**  Vaults:2: [
Vaults:4: ++?

Portals:
Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:26 D:27
Abyss: D:25 D:27
Pandemonium: D:24

Annotations
D:5 Sigmund
D:8 1 exclusion
Crypt:3 exclusion: curse skull


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have stony skin.
You cover ground slowly.
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You are vulnerable to cold.
Your heat harms attackers.
You bathe your surroundings in blazing heat.
You are too hot to use scrolls or read books.
You are very good at protecting items from fire.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
You are clumsy (Dex -1).


Message History

Aiming: Lehudib's Crystal Spear
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - Wouqeplo
Aim: Wouqeplo (severely wounded)
The crystal spear hits Wouqeplo.
You kill Wouqeplo!
Cheibriados thoroughly appreciates the change of pace.
An ice devil comes into view.
You slice the ice devil like a ripe choko!!!
You burn the ice devil!
You kill the ice devil!
Cheibriados appreciates the change of pace.
Move the cursor to view the level map, or type ? for a list of commands.
Returning to the game...
Things that are here:
a club; a dart; a dwarven short sword
You see here a dart.
The dungeon rumbles! Ka-crash!
The dungeon rumbles! Ka-crash!
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
You have escaped!

      #...>...(()..#.#    #..
      #........#####.#   ##..
      ##.#.##..#   #.#   #...
       #.#.##..    #.#   #...
       #.#.##..##  #.#   #...
       #.#.#..#.   #.#   #...
       #.#.##..#   #.### #..#
       #.#.##..#   #...# #..#
       #.#.##..#   #...# #..#
       #.#...#######...# #..#
      ##......@....##### #..#
######................####%.#
.....#......⌠...⌠......#.....
....##...⌠.........⌠...###%>.
)...#.........≈.........##...
....#...⌠...........⌠...##...
.####<....(≈.....≈.........#.
.#  #...⌠...........⌠...##.#.
(#  #....(....≈.........##.#.
(#  ##...⌠.........⌠...###.#.
(#   #......⌠...⌠......#.....


There were no monsters in sight!

(Rest of the file snipped.)

For this message the author Thasero has received thanks: 9
battaile, cerebovssquire, dpeg, Eronarn, galehar, graffen69, mumra, njvack, Psieye

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 4

Joined: Monday, 4th June 2012, 03:35

Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 03:01

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Thank you for the very detailed feedback about lava orcs! It sounds like they're a lot closer to being complete than they were last iteration.

There are several comments on my github about how to make lava orcs ready for merging into trunk (code cleanup, refactoring, etc.). Unfortunately, I'm rather stalled out on following through with that as I have a job and a roguelike of my own. I really hope that someone makes use of the code, since it is going to bitrot rapidly otherwise! :( It would be great to see them in DCSS.

Vaults Vanquisher

Posts: 494

Joined: Friday, 11th February 2011, 17:13

Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 03:56

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Wow!

Super cool, thank you for this!

How about Firelings for a name?
User avatar

Barkeep

Posts: 4435

Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 04:25

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Thasero wrote:I'm not the first person to say this, but there really is no justification for Lava Orcs being Orcs except that Eronarn decided to call them that. They don't fit in, and protecting allied orcs from the fire aura if you worship Beogh is just a hack to try and make them fit in. Unfortunately, I'm also not the first person to say that and then totally fail to come up with a better name for the species. Sorry.


Salamander? Because this sounds like at least some mythological descriptions of salamanders.

I know it's already a monster.
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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 04:59

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Eronarn wrote:and a roguelike of my own

Out of curiosity: what's your roguelike?
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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 09:52

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Call them lavafolk and have their feet turn into a tail in lava just like merfolk in water. (Actually I'm not even sure if they can swim in lava, it's just an idea.)

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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 10:22

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Jeremiah wrote:Call them lavafolk and have their feet turn into a tail in lava just like merfolk in water. (Actually I'm not even sure if they can swim in lava, it's just an idea.)


Lava elf
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Lavapire

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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 10:25

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

MOUNTAIN DWARF

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Post Wednesday, 20th February 2013, 12:16

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

What about making a Demon/Elemental player species related to fire?
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Post Thursday, 21st February 2013, 21:49

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Efreet (efreeti?) are already in the game, and would make sense to use for a lava base race.

It would open up the possibility of giving some of the player race's abilities to the mob, which could make the mob more interesting as well (namely the fire aura). Currently they're a largely standard mob that happens to deal a fair amount of fire damage. And drop anti-hydra weapons.

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Post Thursday, 21st February 2013, 22:50

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Jeremiah wrote:Call them lavafolk and have their feet turn into a tail in lava just like merfolk in water. (Actually I'm not even sure if they can swim in lava, it's just an idea.)


Mermaid comes from the Old English mere for sea. Fyr is the Old English word for fire, so Fyrfolk is an option.

Mer is the Welsh word for water. Tân is the Welsh for fire, so Tahnfolk could kind of work. All I know is from ten minutes on Google and Wikipedia.

None of these etymological analogues to merfolk sound better than Lavafolk, Salamander, or Efreet to me.

Efreeti are Demons, though, so they might have to be limited in their deity choices and might water down Demonspawn too much.

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Post Friday, 22nd February 2013, 07:16

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

flaming dwarf

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Post Friday, 22nd February 2013, 20:05

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Now, now, let's not bring sexual orientation into this. Gods and players don't have in-game gender, after all.
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Post Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 09:09

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Thasero wrote:- "I wonder why the strategy advice says you shouldn't use Fire Storm to clear Tomb:3? Let's find out!"

And what happended?

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Post Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 14:36

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

I think it suffers from a lack of a clear niche


"zigsprint"

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Post Saturday, 23rd February 2013, 15:19

Re: YAVP - Lava Orc testing in trunk

Disc of storms is useful at times in regular crawl also. The situations where it is good are reasonably rare but that's fine, they exist now. It will pretty reliably oneshot brimstone fiends next to a corner, for instance (and depending on your AC/EV will probably do ~30-40 damage to your character assuming you have rElec). Also it's very good in actual zigs, not just zigsprint, as long as you're with Makhleb. If you want to find more uses for disc of storms you can.

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