DEFE now dead in ziggurat.


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Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Monday, 19th November 2012, 04:57

DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

Raising conjuration first did wonder for the early game, and was able to clear lair much easier than the last time. Problem is, I don't think I'm comfortable with choosing spells. I'll have to forget flame tongue and throw flame.

So far, I mostly use fireball/sticky flame (if in melee range), IMB for fire-resistant and immune monsters. Have reflect missile and shroud up if enemy gets too close, regeneration/sub. blood to restore hp/mp quicker. Of course I now know why haste is good. As for airstrike...I haven't found much use for that spell, and right now thinking about forgetting it to just go for earth school. I came across several tough uniques:
  Code:
D:18 Louise; Mara Shoals:2 exclusion: Roxanne, Norris; Roxanne

And against them my fireball didn't do much dmg. Maybe Iron shot and training earth magic should be my next step.

As for the amulet, too bad inacc affects spell as well. Just keeping it to swap against yaktaurs/cyclops (wonder if amulet effect stack with spell?)

For skills, any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking of training conjuration all the way up to 27 first. Is this good? Maybe I should focus on fighting/dodging perhaps? Or just train earth like I wrote above?

p.s Between staff of conjuration and wizardy, which one is better?

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1096-gae766eb (tiles) character file.

Norther the Devastator (DEFE)                      Turns: 35327, Time: 04:05:22

HP  89/89        AC 18     Str 11      XL: 17   Next:  8%
MP  11/40        EV 23     Int 27      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 293         SH 11     Dex 19      Spells: 13 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +   w - staff of conjuration
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   l - +3 robe of the City {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   z - +0 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   d - +2 helmet {rF+}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   m - +2 cloak {MR}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   s - +0 pair of gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   K - +0 pair of elf boots
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   a - amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 R
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   M - +2 ring of protection
                                     r - ring of see invisible

@: extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight


You are on level 20 of the Dungeon.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 6 branches of the dungeon, and seen 36 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer and Volcano.

You have collected 2801 gold pieces.
You have spent 2528 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 d - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 l - the +3 robe of the City (worn) {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 m - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 s - a +0 pair of gauntlets of strength (worn)
 z - a +0 buckler of protection (worn)
 K - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of digging
 k - a wand of digging (9)
 n - a wand of slowing {zapped: 3}
 t - a wand of flame {zapped: 1}
 y - a wand of cold (4)
 C - a wand of teleportation (3)
 O - a wand of disintegration (1)
Comestibles
 c - 2 honeycombs
 v - 2 meat rations
 B - 2 bread rations
 E - a slice of pizza
 H - an apple
Scrolls
 b - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 g - 2 scrolls of recharging
 i - 2 scrolls of fog
 p - 2 scrolls of fear
 q - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 u - 4 scrolls of blinking
 G - 4 scrolls of teleportation
 Q - a scroll of magic mapping
Jewellery
 a - the amulet of the Air (around neck) {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 r - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
 M - a +2 ring of protection (right hand)
 N - an uncursed amulet of warding
Potions
 e - a potion of magic
 f - 7 potions of curing
 j - 2 potions of might
 o - 3 potions of restore abilities
 x - a potion of brilliance
 D - 2 potions of speed
 F - 2 potions of resistance
 I - 8 potions of heal wounds
Books
 A - a Grand Grimoire {god gift}   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Demonic Horde                      Summoning                    6
   Mass Abjuration                    Summoning                    6
   Haunt                              Necromancy/Summoning         7
   Summon Greater Demon               Summoning                    7
   Malign Gateway                     Summoning/Translocation      7
   Summon Horrible Things             Summoning                    8
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)


   Skills:
 - Level 5.5 Fighting
 - Level 8.0 Dodging
 - Level 5.1 Stealth
 - Level 3.9 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 - Level 16.0 Spellcasting
 * Level 21.4 Conjurations
 - Level 11.3 Charms
 - Level 2.3 Necromancy
 - Level 16.0 Fire Magic


You have 7 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      ######       0%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      #######      0%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #########    0%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #########    0%          4    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          5    None
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          2    None
g - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #######...   1%          2    None
h - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #####.....   1%          2    None
j - Haste                 Chrm           #######..    4%          6    ###....
k - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #######..    1%          3    None
l - Airstrike             Air            ####......   7%          4    None
m - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #########    0%          4    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (20/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (0/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (2/5) Lair:4
  Snake (1/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (0/5) D:15
Last edited by nordetsa on Thursday, 22nd November 2012, 01:32, edited 5 times in total.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Monday, 19th November 2012, 12:23

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

Airstrike is for spellcasters that are going heavily into air magic. You are not. Even if Airstrike is good when air magic is your highest skill, it isn't going to be better than the mediocre Mystic Blast when you have 21 conjurations and 0 air magic. You are currently trying to cast it with raw spellcasting and Vehumet's wizardry alone, so no wonder it isn't getting you anywhere.

Fireball should work just fine against Norris and Louise, so long as you're prepared to deal with their spell selections. Mara should probably be avoided for a while. Roxanne can be chipped down with Mystic Blast because she doesn't regenerate her hit points, but there's no actual point in doing so unless she's camping all three sets of stairs. There are also several places to go that doesn't take you through where they are, and of the available destinations Slime is the only one I wouldn't take that character into yet.

Your current character is well-suited for the new Amulet of the Air. Most of your abilities don't care about accuracy; Fireball and Sticky Flame always hit even with the penalty, and it isn't like Mystic Blast is likely to miss most dangerous fire-resistant targets even with the penalty.

27 conjurations this early is almost certainly a waste. You wouldn't need to go that high even if you were rushing for Fire Storm, and it would be extremely expensive too. Working on your defensive skills is almost certainly going to be more profitable, and when you do decide to go for Fire Storm you'll want to raise both relevant skills equally so you get it online as cheaply as possible.

The staff of conjurations makes all your conjurations more accurate and more damaging. The staff of wizardry makes all your spells miscast less often. Most of your spells are conjurations, and almost none of your spells have a significant chance of miscast. You might reevaluate if and when you go for Fire Storm, but for now the staff of conjuration will do a lot for you and wizardry will do almost nothing.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Monday, 19th November 2012, 14:08

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

More specifically, Airstrike (after Freezing/Poisonous Cloud) is for commanders of massive armies who want to pick off something way at the back. This is slightly contested by the fact high level air magic is extremely unfriendly to minions.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 02:38

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

  Code:
ungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1096-gae766eb (tiles) character file.

Norther the Devastator (DEFE)                      Turns: 42686, Time: 05:09:27

HP 120/120       AC 16     Str 11      XL: 20   Next: 55%
MP  28/50        EV 23     Int 30      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 773         SH 11     Dex 19      Spells: 14 memorised,  4 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +   w - staff of conjuration
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : +   l - +3 robe of the City {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   z - +0 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   d - +2 helmet {rF+}
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   m - +2 cloak {MR}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   s - +0 pair of gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   K - +0 pair of elf boots
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   N - amulet of warding
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   b - ring of magical power
                                     r - ring of see invisible

@: very slightly contaminated, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments,
quite stealthy
A: Int +1
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight


You are on level 3 of the Vaults.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and seen 42 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Sewer and Volcano.

You have collected 3835 gold pieces.
You have spent 3082 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 d - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 l - the +3 robe of the City (worn) {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 m - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 s - a +0 pair of gauntlets of strength (worn)
 z - a +0 buckler of protection (worn)
 K - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn)
 P - a fire dragon hide
Magical devices
 k - a wand of digging (7)
 q - a wand of teleportation (5)
 y - a wand of cold (4)
 C - a wand of teleportation (2)
 H - a wand of draining
 L - a wand of enslavement
 O - a wand of disintegration (1)
 V - a wand of polymorph other
Comestibles
 c - a honeycomb
 v - 2 meat rations
 B - 4 bread rations
 E - a royal jelly
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of recharging
 h - a scroll of identify
 i - 2 scrolls of fog
 n - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 p - 8 scrolls of fear
 t - a scroll of amnesia
 u - 4 scrolls of blinking
 A - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 G - 7 scrolls of teleportation
 J - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 R - a scroll of enchant armour
Jewellery
 a - the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 b - a ring of magical power (right hand)
 r - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
 N - an amulet of warding (around neck)
Potions
 e - a potion of magic
 f - 5 potions of curing
 j - 2 potions of might
 o - 2 potions of restore abilities
 x - 2 potions of brilliance
 D - 2 potions of speed
 F - 2 potions of resistance
 I - 7 potions of heal wounds
 M - a potion of cure mutation
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
 Q - an uncursed staff of wizardry


   Skills:
 * Level 13.2 Fighting
 - Level 13.4 Dodging
 - Level 5.1 Stealth
 - Level 3.9 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 - Level 16.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 21.4 Conjurations
 - Level 11.3 Charms
 - Level 2.3 Necromancy
 - Level 16.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 5.0 Earth Magic


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      ######       0%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      #######      0%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #########    0%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #########    0%          4    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          5    None
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          2    None
g - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      #######...   1%          2    None
h - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
j - Haste                 Chrm           #######..    3%          6    ###....
k - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  ########.    1%          3    None
l - Airstrike             Air            ####......   6%          4    None
m - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #########    0%          4    None
n - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          6    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (20/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (0/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
  Snake (1/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (3/5) D:15
  Blade (0/1) Vaults:3      Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3   


Game has been gone smoothly, but not without some problems. There were bunch of hell knights and Margery in Shoals:5, and with my current spells I wouldn't know how to kill them all. Without rPois Snake sounds bad, though I can learn cure poison spell (should I learn that)?

Decided to go Earth magic because I just like iron shot so much.

One problem is that I haven't found any spellbook with control teleport.There is a ring of teleport control, but it costs 850g and I don't know whether I can find that much gold. Perhaps I should go to Elf before trying vault:5?

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 09:10

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

850g is CHEAP for cTele. You're at 773g already. You should be able to just pick stuff off the floor to meet that price. Learn Cure Poison and pillage Snake. Crypt would work too provided you have a means to quickly get back mana if you rely on loud noises.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 15:56

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

Have you no other rings? At this point in the game, neither of those rings is a good choice for running around all the time.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 20:27

Re: CIP:DEFE About to enter midgame

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1096-gae766eb (tiles) character file.

Norther the Sorcerer (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)  Turns: 65910, Time: 07:38:49

HP 139/164       AC 18     Str 18      XL: 27
MP  39/50        EV 27     Int 32 (33) God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 3910        SH 13     Dex 16      Spells: 19 memorised,  2 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .   w - staff of conjuration
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   l - +3 robe of the City {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   z - +2 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   d - +2 helmet {rF+}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   m - +2 cloak {MR}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   s - +2 pair of gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   K - +0 pair of elf boots
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   a - amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 R
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   Q - ring of the Queen {MR Str+2 Int+2}
                                     b - ring "Joffeh" {Wiz Str+3 Dex-3}

@: uncannily resistant to hostile enchantments, quite stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, silver


You are on level 5 of the Vaults.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 58 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Sewer and Volcano.

You have collected 7822 gold pieces.
You have spent 3932 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 d - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 l - the +3 robe of the City (worn) {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 m - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 s - a +2 pair of gauntlets of strength (worn)
 z - a +2 buckler of protection (worn)
 K - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn)
Magical devices
 c - a wand of digging (7)
 q - a wand of teleportation (5)
 H - a wand of hasting (3)
 N - a wand of disintegration (12)
Comestibles
 t - a royal jelly
 v - 3 meat rations
 B - 5 bread rations
 O - 6 chunks of ogre flesh
 T - a pear
Scrolls
 g - 3 scrolls of recharging
 i - 4 scrolls of fog
 n - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 p - 2 scrolls of fear
 u - 6 scrolls of blinking
 y - a scroll of enchant weapon III
 C - a scroll of magic mapping
 G - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 J - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 U - a scroll of identify
Jewellery
 a - the amulet of the Air (around neck) {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 b - the ring "Joffeh" (left hand) {Wiz Str+3 Dex-3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
 k - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 r - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 A - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 D - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 E - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 L - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 M - the amulet "Siexumy" {rCorr Int+2 Dam+5}
   (You acquired it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [amulet of resist corrosion]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
 P - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 Q - the ring of the Queen (right hand) {MR Str+2 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
 R - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Potions
 e - 2 potions of magic
 f - 11 potions of curing
 j - 5 potions of might
 o - 6 potions of restore abilities
 x - 2 potions of brilliance
 F - 3 potions of resistance
 I - 8 potions of heal wounds
 S - 4 potions of speed
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
Miscellaneous
 h - a crystal ball of energy


   Skills:
 - Level 15.1 Fighting
 - Level 13.8 Dodging
 - Level 5.1 Stealth
 - Level 3.9 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 - Level 24.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 22.0 Conjurations
 - Level 11.3 Charms
 - Level 0.7 Summonings
 - Level 2.3 Necromancy
 - Level 10.2 Translocations
 - Level 20.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 5.0 Earth Magic
 * Level 21.1 Evocations


You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          9    #####..
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      #######      0%          2    None
c - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      #########    0%          3    None
d - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #########    0%          4    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   0%          5    None
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          2    None
g - Shroud of Golubria    Chrm/Tloc      ########..   0%          2    None
h - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #######...   1%          2    None
j - Haste                 Chrm           ########.    1%          6    None
k - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      #########.   2%          8    ###....
l - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   0%          1    None
m - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #########    0%          4    None
n - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          6    None
o - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ######...    1%          1    None
p - Cure Poison           Pois           ######....   1%          2    None
q - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    None
r - Flight                Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          3    None
s - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          4%          7    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (27/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
  Snake (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:15
  Blade (0/1) Vaults:3      Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3        Zot (0/5) D:27


Got 2 runes now, wondering where to go. Now that I have fire storm ready I can probably kill the hell knights at shoal:5 and get the rune.

I don't know I can take Tomb or Hell. I want to settle with Pan runes and then ascend (and maybe enter ziggurat if I ever see one). I would go Crypt for exp and possible loots, and then possibly slime or pan. Several questions I have right now:

1. Spells. I'll have to forget b, c, d but what about IMB? Now I got iron shot and LCS ready, I don't think I'll find a need to use the spell. Also, should there be any other spell I should learn? I couldn't find control teleport so had to buy that ring of teleport.

2. Skills. Keep going for evocation? Or fighting for more xp? I feel training armor/dodging at this point would be pointless, better to have more hp.

3. Is it time to take off that amulet of air? I might use it for swapping now, because I would now like to wear conservation/mutation or just mutation all the time.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 21:20

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

I envy your abundance of spell slots. You're with Vehumet and have fire storm. Get summons online: horrible things or dragons. Forget b,c,d,e,g,m,q IMO because firestorm and summons make all of them obsolete (well, shroud of golubria was outdated long ago). Oh hang on, fire storm has significant food cost. Ok, keep fireball and delayed fireball. Also learn (mass) abjuration, recall and phase shift. After that if you still have EXP left over, consider going deep into Necromancy to get access to the ultimate life-saver buttons.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 21:31

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

I never utilized summoning before, and don't still get why people say it is good. Well I did use summon angels when I was playing TSO MiFi, but that was when I didn't have fire storm online. Why spend mp on a dragon when you can just firestorm? And I don't think dragons will like it when I cast firestorm over them.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 21:34

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

Mummies, the ability to deal damage and do other stuff at the same time (like moving, healing, channeling, etc.), keeping obstacles between you and the enemy...

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 22:26

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

nordetsa wrote:I never utilized summoning before, and don't still get why people say it is good. Well I did use summon angels when I was playing TSO MiFi, but that was when I didn't have fire storm online. Why spend mp on a dragon when you can just firestorm? And I don't think dragons will like it when I cast firestorm over them.

There's 2 ways to use big summons when you have firestorm available:
1) Call one summon to deal with lots of trash mobs. A firestorm is only an instant, a dragon is for several battles. Sure if you have excellent melee or missile skills then you can kill the trash mobs yourself but if you don't then you'll be forced to keep some spellslots around for lower rank spells just to kill trash mobs... which would still be horrifically mp inefficient. Why cast 20 conjuratoins when one summon cast will solve all those random encounters?

2) Use with CBoE. Summon 10~20 dragons (more if you're using horrible things) upfront BEFORE a known major conflict (or an unknown ambush in hell). Of course you start the fight at full mp. Naturally you do not firestorm your own minions. The difference between having an army and not is the difference between being able to afford the risk of CBoE botching in the middle of combat and not. I do not care if I need to spend 10 turns with a staff of channeling in the middle of a fight because my army is keeping everything under control. Firestorm is smite targetted, it's a lot harder to use ice storm with an army.


If you're summoning single minions (and not to replenish an existing army) in the middle of a major fight, you are being suboptimal. The one exception being the eldritch tentacle.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Tuesday, 20th November 2012, 23:41

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

I had summon dragon spell somewhere-think I will go with that. There were staff of summoning too-perhaps I should pick it up and swap it with staff of conjuration when necessary?

And when is phase shift useful? Boosting your EV doesn't sound that good in Pan or Hell...

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 01:40

Re: CIP:DEFE (almost )Got 3 runes, want to go for extended

nordetsa wrote:And when is phase shift useful? Boosting your EV doesn't sound that good in Pan or Hell...

If you believe that, why do you even have DMsl still memorised? It's useful enough, you do not want to be worrying about all the other sources of damage on top of hellfire and torment. Incidentally aside from hellion hellfire, other sources of hellfire can be blocked with summons.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 04:55

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of. Advice needed.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1096-gae766eb (tiles) character file.

Norther the Archmage (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)  Turns: 75768, Time: 08:52:17

HP 118/163 (164) AC 20     Str 16      XL: 27
MP  50/50        EV 23     Int 37      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 5621        SH 14     Dex 18      Spells: 17 memorised,  2 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .   w - staff of conjuration
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   l - +3 robe of the City {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   z - +3 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : +   d - +2 helmet {rF+}
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   D - +4 dragonskin cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   s - +2 pair of gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   W - +0 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   M - amulet "Siexumy" {rCorr Int+2 Dam+5}
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   b - ring "Joffeh" {Wiz Str+3 Dex-3}
                                     y - ring of Addatwut {Dex+2 Int+4}

@: regenerating, delayed fireball, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments,
quite stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion, Release Delayed Fireball, Evoke Flight
}: 4/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver


You are on level 1 of the Realm of Zot.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 70 of its levels.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Sewer and Volcano.

You have collected 9533 gold pieces.
You have spent 3932 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Armour
 d - a +2 helmet of fire resistance (worn)
 l - the +3 robe of the City (worn) {+Fly rC+ MR Dex+4 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 m - a +2 cloak of magic resistance
 s - a +2 pair of gauntlets of strength (worn)
 z - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
 D - the +4 dragonskin cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Tiamat on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)
 W - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
 c - a wand of digging (3)
 q - a wand of teleportation (5)
 H - a wand of hasting (3)
 J - a wand of slowing
 N - a wand of disintegration (11)
Comestibles
 t - a royal jelly
 v - 4 meat rations
 B - 6 bread rations
 K - 2 chunks of moth of wrath flesh
Scrolls
 g - 2 scrolls of recharging
 i - 4 scrolls of fog
 j - 3 scrolls of identify
 n - 6 scrolls of remove curse
 p - 2 scrolls of fear
 u - a scroll of blinking
 C - a scroll of enchant weapon I
 G - 2 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 a - the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 b - the ring "Joffeh" (right hand) {Wiz Str+3 Dex-3}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
 k - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 r - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 y - the ring of Addatwut (left hand) {Dex+2 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 A - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 E - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 L - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 M - the amulet "Siexumy" (around neck) {rCorr Int+2 Dam+5}
   (You acquired it on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   [amulet of resist corrosion]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
 P - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 R - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Potions
 e - 3 potions of magic
 f - 7 potions of curing
 o - 4 potions of restore abilities
 x - a potion of brilliance
 F - 2 potions of resistance
 I - 9 potions of heal wounds
 S - 5 potions of speed
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of conjuration (weapon)
 V - an uncursed staff of channeling
Miscellaneous
 h - a crystal ball of energy


   Skills:
 - Level 15.1 Fighting
 - Level 13.8 Dodging
 - Level 5.1 Stealth
 - Level 3.9 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 - Level 22.0 Conjurations
 - Level 11.3 Charms
 * Level 18.8 Summonings
 - Level 2.3 Necromancy
 - Level 10.2 Translocations
 - Level 20.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 5.0 Earth Magic
 - Level 21.1 Evocations


You have 2 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          9    #......
b - Summon Dragon         Summ           #########.   2%          9    #......
c - Recall                Summ/Tloc      N/A          0%          3    None
d - Phase Shift           Tloc           ########..   1%          5    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   0%          5    None
g - Mass Abjuration       Summ           #########.   1%          6    None
h - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   1%          3    None
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #######...   1%          2    None
j - Haste                 Chrm           ########.    1%          6    None
k - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          8    None
l - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   0%          1    None
n - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          6    None
o - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #########    0%          1    None
p - Cure Poison           Pois           ######....   1%          2    None
q - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    None
r - Flight                Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          3    None
s - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          2%          7    None


Got summon dragon available, though I don't know if I can spam this. Summon 10~20 dragon? Can I do that without draining all of my mp and then my dragons disappearing because of time out? Do I have to summon that much if I want to take down Pan lords? Never been to Pan or Hell with mage, so I don't know how to manage mp.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 06:27

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

Summon dragon has an absurdly long duration. Ideally you would like a way to replenish mp that is faster than just resting to go along with it, but you can walk around with one or two "permanent" dragons just fine, which is obviously better than walking around with zero dragons.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 07:41

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

Exploring Pan, and got my first pan rune (random one). Though I find it quite difficult to use summon dragons in there. I'm playing trunk, and the dragons won't stay there when I move out of the sight. Against tormenting monsters (which are quite common in Pan) it's just better to use LCS or firestorm. Is there any way to make summon stay attacking fiends while I'm out of their sight?

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 09:22

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

nordetsa wrote:Summon 10~20 dragon? Can I do that without draining all of my mp and then my dragons disappearing because of time out?
Read my post again. "Use CBoE" ideally means:

- Find a safe spot
- Put on clarity and sust. ab. x2
- Cast summon dragon once, use CBoE
- Repeat the above step 10 times
- Put on battle jewellery and march in

Ideally that takes some 50-ish turns. Likely you'll get a botch that wipes your mp. This is when you ideally:

- Pull out a staff of channeling to get back 2mp
- Cast Sub.Blood (and regen) on yourself to get back to 20~30mp
- Use CBoE again (assuming you have 20+ evo)

which adds some 6 turns or so for each mp0 botch. The dragons will be around much, much longer than that. Skip any of these steps at your own (calculated) risk.

nordetsa wrote:Against tormenting monsters (which are quite common in Pan) it's just better to use LCS or firestorm. Is there any way to make summon stay attacking fiends while I'm out of their sight?

That was the whole point of that trunk change. You must kill the torment spam yourself with conjurations. Everything else (e.g. Reapers, Lorocyproca, Iron Devils) however, you kill with the dragons (that you summoned long ago, well before combat) which lets you save mana for the high priority threats.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 102

Joined: Friday, 19th October 2012, 12:07

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 14:53

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

I found pan to be pretty easy with ice storm and LCS (DEWz of Sif in permanent lich mode)... no summoning whatsoever. I think I heard crate say recently something like, "the best resistance for torment is to kill the tormentor faster." I found that to be great advice. Also, pan lords will fall to 2-3 ice storms, so i imagine it would be similar with fire storm. And the storm will likely kill his minions as well(tormentors). mp management WILL be your biggest concern, i think. Dragons seem like overkill to me, but you can't get free MP chanelling, so, maybe best to follow the wiser folks advice.
one last thing. A long time ago, I lost a DEWz (fire storm and shatter) in Zot:5, but not before clearing tomb. This was before I read any spoilers about mummy curses and the sheer terror of tomb, so I wandered in before hell,pan,slime,etc with only iron shot, shatter, and fire storm. Also, i didn't have any form of cBlink or cTele (is tomb -cTele?). There was a lot of stair dancing, and some shatter ninjary, but it was possible to kill everything before it took too much of a chunk out of me. i only mention it in hopes that you might reconsider skipping those branches. I'm the opposite, in that i find non nuke casting mages to be in much more danger this late in the game.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 19:57

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

minmay wrote:
Psieye wrote:
nordetsa wrote:Against tormenting monsters (which are quite common in Pan) it's just better to use LCS or firestorm. Is there any way to make summon stay attacking fiends while I'm out of their sight?

That was the whole point of that trunk change.

Just think of allies as SCP-173 but in reverse.


Uhm, what does that supposed to be mean?

Blades Runner

Posts: 554

Joined: Tuesday, 25th January 2011, 14:24

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 20:59

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 21:02

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

Yeah, I know what SCP-173 is, I just don't understand what he means by "SCP-173 in reverse." I want to know if there's any way I can take down tormenting monsters without directly being in their LOS with dragons.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3163

Joined: Friday, 6th January 2012, 18:45

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 21:15

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

If you can see SCP-173, it's harmless. If you can't see your dragons, they're harmless.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 3037

Joined: Sunday, 2nd January 2011, 02:06

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 21:16

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

I think minmay is trying to say that Unlimited Dragon Works only kills everything while it is being directly observed. I think it's a little bit of a stretch, but I can follow the reasoning.

Anyway, if you've got a whole load of dragons all over the place, it doesn't matter if there's a Torment-capable monster on-screen or not. Nothing can kill you if your dragons kill everything before it gets a turn. You also have Fire Storm, which kills everything. And Crystal Spear, which kills any one thing. You don't have to care about Torment very much.

Go win, you should already have this one in the bag.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 21:19

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

One question: does mummy curse affect you while you're outside of its LOS? After getting pan runes I might go for tomb.

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2297

Joined: Saturday, 14th April 2012, 21:35

Post Wednesday, 21st November 2012, 21:30

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

nordetsa wrote:One question: does mummy curse affect you while you're outside of its LOS? After getting pan runes I might go for tomb.

To my awareness, yes you still get hit by mummy curses if you were responsible for the kill even if out of LOS. But this is irrelevant for you because you have dragons to do all that killing.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Thursday, 22nd November 2012, 01:24

Re: CIP:DEFE Time to go extended! Sort of.

  Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1096-gae766eb (tiles) character file.

875154 Norther the Archmage (level 27, 0/202 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist on Nov 17, 2012.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Engulfed by a cloud of flame (21 damage)
             ... on Level 24 of a ziggurat on Nov 21, 2012.
             The game lasted 11:22:25 (89841 turns).

Norther the Archmage (Deep Elf Fire Elementalist)  Turns: 89841, Time: 11:22:25

HP   0/202       AC 20     Str 18      XL: 27
MP  30/50        EV 26     Int 41      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 2416        SH 15     Dex 20      Spells: 17 memorised,  2 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   V - staff of channeling
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   U - +2 robe {Archmagi}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   z - +3 buckler {AC+3}
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   r - +3 crown of Dyrovepreva {Hunger rElec Int+
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   b - +3 cloak of Impermeability {Str+2 Int+2}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   s - +2 pair of gauntlets {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : +       Stasis     : .   M - +2 pair of boots {run}
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: x   Z - amulet "Shraext" {rMut Int+3 Acc+4}
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   j - ring "Zuckeug" {Str+3 Dex+5 Int+5}
                                     W - ring of Vitality {Regen HP+15}

@: regenerating, about to teleport, quick, very resistant to hostile
enchantments, very stealthy
A: no striking features
a: Renounce Religion
}: 6/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, demonic, magical


You were on level 24 of a ziggurat.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and saw 73 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 1 time, and saw 14 of its levels.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 1 Ziggurat, and saw 24 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Sewer and Volcano.

You collected 10718 gold pieces.
You spent 3932 gold pieces at shops.
You used 4390 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.

Inventory:

Armour
 b - the +3 cloak of Impermeability (worn) {Str+2 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 17 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
 r - the +3 crown of Dyrovepreva (worn) {Hunger rElec Int+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 16 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It speeds your metabolism.
 s - a +2 pair of gauntlets of strength (worn)
 z - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
 M - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 U - a +2 robe of the Archmagi (worn)
Magical devices
 q - a wand of teleportation (4)
 H - a wand of hasting (3)
 N - a wand of disintegration (10)
 O - a wand of digging (6)
Comestibles
 t - 2 royal jellies
 u - a slice of pizza
 v - 2 meat rations
 B - 7 bread rations
 Q - 6 sultanas
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 i - 2 scrolls of fog
 l - a scroll of enchant armour
 m - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 n - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 p - 3 scrolls of fear
 G - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 K - 2 scrolls of blinking
Jewellery
 a - the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 c - the amulet of Tension {Gourm Str+4 Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 12 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 j - the ring "Zuckeug" (right hand) {Str+3 Dex+5 Int+5}
   (You found it on level 10 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of dexterity]
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your intelligence (+5).
 y - the ring of the Mage {Wiz MR Int+3}
   (You found it on level 1 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
 A - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 E - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 L - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 R - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 W - the ring of Vitality (left hand) {Regen HP+15}
   (You found it on level 18 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of regeneration]
   It affects your health (+15).
 Z - the amulet "Shraext" (around neck) {rMut Int+3 Acc+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your accuracy (+4).
Potions
 f - 11 potions of curing
 o - 2 potions of restore abilities
 x - a potion of brilliance
 C - 8 potions of cure mutation
 F - a potion of resistance
 I - 11 potions of heal wounds
 S - 3 potions of speed
Books
 k - a Necronomicon {highlevel}   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Borgnjor's Revivification          Necromancy                   7
   Haunt                              Necromancy/Summoning         7
   Death's Door                       Charms/Necromancy            8
   Necromutation                      Transmutation/Necromancy     8
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of conjuration
 V - an uncursed staff of channeling (weapon)
Miscellaneous
 h - a crystal ball of energy


   Skills:
 * Level 23.2 Fighting
 - Level 4.2 Armour
 - Level 15.0 Dodging
 - Level 8.8 Stealth
 - Level 3.9 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 - Level 22.0 Conjurations
 - Level 11.3 Charms
 - Level 23.0 Summonings
 - Level 12.0 Necromancy
 - Level 10.2 Translocations
 - Level 20.0 Fire Magic
 - Level 5.0 Earth Magic
 O Level 27 Evocations


You had 2 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      #########.   2%          9    None
b - Summon Dragon         Summ           ##########   1%          9    None
c - Recall                Summ/Tloc      N/A          0%          3    None
d - Phase Shift           Tloc           #########.   1%          5    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   0%          5    None
g - Mass Abjuration       Summ           ##########   0%          6    None
h - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #########.   0%          3    None
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #########.   0%          2    None
j - Haste                 Chrm           #########    1%          6    None
k - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      #########.   2%          8    None
l - Apportation           Tloc           #########.   0%          1    None
n - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #########.   1%          6    None
o - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #########    0%          1    None
p - Cure Poison           Pois           #######...   1%          2    None
q - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    None
r - Flight                Chrm/Air       #########.   1%          3    None
s - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          3%          7    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (27/27)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
  Snake (5/5) Lair:6        Slime (6/6) Lair:6       Vaults (5/5) D:15
  Blade (0/1) Vaults:3      Crypt (5/5) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:2
    Zot (4/5) D:27       


Welp, This is where it ends. But I think it was worth it-first time getting mage extended, good to know it is necessary to utilize summoning. Got a mummy floor and let my dragons absorb all the curse (though I kept getting tormented). Now I know why it would be near impossible to go that place as a pure melee (and personally I don't think haste-melee character can take out lower floors).

Died in the Pan lord floor. Perhaps I should've summoned more dragons so that they would provide enough meat shield for pan lords so that they don't use firestorm on me.

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Friday, 23rd November 2012, 15:03

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

You don't need to use summoning as a mage-type character -- my 15 rune DEIE had no summons at all, and just used Ice Storm / LCS / Shatter to nuke everything that came into view. Granted, dragons would have been nice for mummy-killing, but they certainly weren't needed.

Note that I'm not saying to avoid dragons; I'm only saying that aren't necessary.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Friday, 23rd November 2012, 16:53

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

Pure melee characters can do these floors with a lot of ?holy word and some haste consumable. You're still going to die without Makhleb or TSO though, and possibly even with them.

Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1093

Joined: Sunday, 12th August 2012, 02:29

Post Saturday, 24th November 2012, 01:16

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

cerebovssquire wrote:Pure melee characters can do these floors with a lot of ?holy word and some haste consumable. You're still going to die without Makhleb or TSO though, and possibly even with them.


Well to me that equates into 'being damn nearly impossible.' :? How'd one get so may holy word scroll? I don't think even ziggurat had that many.

Swamp Slogger

Posts: 176

Joined: Thursday, 13th September 2012, 22:59

Post Saturday, 24th November 2012, 01:41

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

Scrolls of fog make ziggs incredibly easier for melees. Or of course tomb cards.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 26th November 2012, 15:37

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

Well to me that equates into 'being damn nearly impossible.' :? How'd one get so may holy word scroll? I don't think even ziggurat had that many.


I think doing 100 pan floors should give enough holy word scrolls to reliably do a couple zigs (sorry :().

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 4055

Joined: Tuesday, 10th January 2012, 19:49

Post Monday, 26th November 2012, 15:42

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

You could also do 100 pan floors and learn some spells with your infinite xp from doing 100 pan floors....

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Monday, 26th November 2012, 15:48

Re: DEFE now dead in ziggurat.

You could have probably learnt some spells well before that... obviously doing a zig as a spellless melee character isn't a good idea, but this is about the possibiliity of doing it and still surviving (which is not good for winning but still stylish).

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