YAVP CeHu of Oka/Zin (15 runes)

[drag0n]

This was my first victory with a Centaur and my first win with Zin. First I converted to TSO, but I had a mutation problem and I switched to Zin.

• I still haven't figured out the ideal way to play with Zin. Vitalisation and Sanctuary are fantastic, but I didn't use Recite or Imprison at all (never seemed like a good time).
• The Tomb was really hard (as usual).
• Centaur-speed is wonderful, but I didn't account for the increased metabolism and the herbivore and the sacrificing corpses to Oka (and I wore a ring of regeneration) so I came close to starving.
• I ran very low on arrows (particulary unbranded arrows for my holy bow). First lesson learned was not to use my bow in the swamp (I lost a lot of arrows in the deep water). I wonder if crossbows are a safer bet since yakataurs (and their bolts) are so common in the late game. There was a discussion here and I think someone said longbows are better (because of their speed).
• When a centaur stair-dances it should be called stair-dressage.

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/drag0n/morgue-drag0n-20121107-042228.txt

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11.0-27-gc714657 (webtiles) character file.

8964646 drag0n the Merry Centaur (level 27, 261/261 (275) HPs)
             Began as a Centaur Hunter on Nov 1, 2012.
             Was an Elder of Zin.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Nov 7, 2012!
             
             The game lasted 17:14:22 (189636 turns).

drag0n the Merry Centaur (Centaur Hunter)         Turns: 189636, Time: 17:14:22

HP 261/261 (275) AC 45     Str 26      XL: 27
MP  44/44        EV  2     Int 15      God: Zin [****..]
Gold 1652        SH  0     Dex 16      Spells: 10 memorised, 24 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : +   a - +9,+5 executioner's axe (flame) {god gift}
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : .   A - +11 gold dragon armour
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : +   (no shield)
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : +   h - +2 helmet {SInv} (curse)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : +   K - +0 cloak {rCorr, Cons} (curse) {god gift}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   H - -3 pair of gloves "Acvad" {rN+ Int+3 Curse
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   C - -1 centaur barding of Hedging {Str+2 Dex+4
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: x   G - cursed amulet of clarity
Saprovore : . . .   Levitation : .   k - cursed ring of sustenance
                    Ctrl.Flight: .   l - ring of protection from magic

@: very quick, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: hooves 3, deformed body, herbivore 1, speed 2, fast metabolism 1, tough skin
3
a: Recite, Vitalisation, Imprison, Renounce Religion
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian,
icy, bone, abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark


You escaped.
You worshipped Zin.
Zin was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 17 branches of the dungeon, and saw 109 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 20 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 3 times.
You visited 1 Ziggurat, and saw 7 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Bailey, Ice Cave and Wizlab.

You collected 16829 gold pieces.
You spent 5219 gold pieces at shops.
You donated 6718 gold pieces.
You used 3260 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have hooves in place of feet.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
You digest meat inefficiently.
You cover ground very quickly.
You have a fast metabolism.
You have extremely tough skin (AC +3).


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 O Level 27 Axes
 O Level 27 Bows
 + Level 24.1 Armour
 - Level 1.3 Dodging
 - Level 0.5 Stealth
 + Level 18.1 Traps & Doors
 - Level 13.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 13.5 Charms
 - Level 10.3 Translocations
 - Level 5.3 Air Magic
 - Level 3.0 Poison Magic
 O Level 27 Invocations
 - Level 8.1 Evocations


You had 24 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          4%          2    None
d - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######....   8%          2    None
e - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   2%          1    None
f - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   14%         3    None
h - Haste                 Chrm           #######..    95%         6    ######.
o - See Invisible         Chrm           #######...   10%         4    ##.....
s - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ######....   8%          2    None
t - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ######....   17%         4    ##.....
u - Portal Projectile     Tloc           ######.      4%          2    None
y - Cure Poison           Pois           ####......   86%         2    None


Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9,+5 executioner's axe of flaming (weapon) {god gift}
 b - a +8,+5 longbow of holy wrath
 c - the cursed +4,+1 longbow of Trauma {god gift, speed, rElec rF+ rN+ MR}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause slightly less damage.
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
Missiles
 o - 15 arrows of flame
 p - 65 arrows
 t - 45 arrows of dispersal
 O - 45 poisoned arrows
 V - 6 arrows of frost
Armour
 h - a cursed +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 w - a cursed +0 centaur barding of levitation {god gift}
 A - a +11 gold dragon armour (worn)
 C - the cursed -1 centaur barding of Hedging (worn) {Str+2 Dex+4}
   (You acquired it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 H - the cursed -3 pair of gloves "Acvad" (worn) {rN+ Int+3 Curse}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It may recurse itself.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 K - a cursed +0 cloak of preservation (worn) {god gift}
Magical devices
 j - a wand of digging (4)
 m - a wand of disintegration (10)
 q - a wand of disintegration (10)
 r - a wand of hasting (1)
 u - a wand of heal wounds (1)
 z - a wand of teleportation (4)
 E - a wand of teleportation (2)
 F - a wand of digging (4)
 R - a wand of teleportation (5)
Comestibles
 W - a bread ration
Scrolls
 f - a scroll of blinking
 i - 13 scrolls of fear
 x - 5 scrolls of identify
 y - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 I - a scroll of fog
 Q - 6 scrolls of teleportation
Jewellery
 d - a cursed ring of life protection
 k - a cursed ring of sustenance (right hand)
 l - a ring of protection from magic (left hand)
 s - the cursed ring "Yfuatiam" {+Blink rC+ AC+2}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Iron City of Dis)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   It affects your AC (+2).
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you blink.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 v - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 B - the cursed ring of Klott {Regen Str+3 Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of regeneration]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 D - the cursed ring "Grades" {+Inv rPois rC+ Int+2 Acc+1 Dam+6}
   (You took it off a yellow draconian on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your accuracy (+1).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+6).
   It protects you from poison.
   It lets you turn invisible.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 G - a cursed amulet of clarity (around neck)
 P - a cursed +6 ring of intelligence
Potions
 e - 8 potions of invisibility
 g - 2 potions of magic
 n - 4 potions of resistance
 L - 6 potions of curing
 M - 4 potions of restore abilities
 N - a potion of heal wounds
 U - 4 potions of levitation
Orbs of Power
 J - the Orb of Zot


▒▒▒      ▒·▒·######▒·▒
     ▒▒▒▒▒·▒···▒###··▒
▒▒▒▒▒▒·····▒▒·······▒▒
···▒▒··▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒'▒▒▒▒   ▒
···▒▒·▒▒··▒  ▒▒8·8▒▒   ··▒
···▒▒·▒·≈··▒ ▒▒▒'▒▒▒ ▒·?≈·
···▒··▒·≈··▒▒▒<···>▒▒▒·≈≈·
···▒··▒·≈≈·▒#▒·····▒≈▒·≈≈#▒
···▒··▒≈·#≈▒·'··c··'·▒≈#≈#▒
···▒··▒≈≈≈·▒#▒·····▒≈▒·≈##▒
···▒··▒·≈≈·▒▒▒>···<▒▒▒·≈≈·
······▒·#··▒ ▒▒▒'▒▒▒ ▒··≈·
▒▒▒▒▒·▒▒··▒   ▒···▒   ▒··▒
    ▒··▒▒▒▒▒ ▒▒▒▒▒▒▒   ▒▒
    ▒▒·····▒▒·······▒
     ▒▒▒▒▒·▒·····#···▒
         ▒·▒···##▒···▒


There were no monsters in sight!

Message History

The hobgoblin shouts!
A hobgoblin is nearby!
You can't go up here!
You slice the hobgoblin!! You burn the hobgoblin.
You kill the hobgoblin!
No target in view!
No target in view!
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(L) Lair           (S) Swamp          (P) Snake Pit      (M) Slime Pits     
(V) Vaults         (B) Hall of Blades (C) Crypt          (W) Tomb           
(U) Hell           (I) Dis            (G) Gehenna        (X) Cocytus       
(Y) Tartarus       (Z) Zot           
Where to? (* - list waypoints, Enter - D:1, ? - help)
There is an escape hatch in the floor here.
There is an open door here.
There is an open door here.
There is a stone staircase leading up here.
You climb upwards.
You sense a powerful magical force warping space.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
(D) Dungeon        (T) Temple         (O) Orcish Mines   (E) Elven Halls   
(L) Lair           (S) Swamp          (P) Snake Pit      (M) Slime Pits     
(V) Vaults         (B) Hall of Blades (C) Crypt          (W) Tomb           
(U) Hell           (I) Dis            (G) Gehenna        (X) Cocytus       
(Y) Tartarus       (Z) Zot           
Where to? (* - list waypoints, Enter - D:1, ? - help)
Okay, then.
There is a staircase leading out of the dungeon here.
Are you sure you want to win?
You have escaped!


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |    15 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||    15
       Hand axe          |    56 |    60 |   121 |    73 |       |       |       |       |       ||   310
       Battleaxe         |       |       |       |     9 |    80 |    66 |       |       |       ||   155
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |     4 |       |       |       |       |     3 ||     7
       Longbow           |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |     5 |     4 ||    12
       Executioner's axe |       |       |       |       |       |   378 |   243 |   182 |  7947 ||  8750
       War axe           |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     9 ||     9
 Fire: Bow               |    30 |    22 |   188 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       ||   242
       Longbow           |       |       |    98 |   954 |  1696 |  2116 |  3154 |  5169 |  4004 || 17191
       Sling             |       |       |       |    19 |       |       |       |       |       ||    19
 Cast: Apportation       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |     6 ||     7
       Cure Poison       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 |     5 |     3 |       ||    12
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |       |       |    12 |    60 |     7 ||    79
       Portal Projectile |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |    14 |    51 ||    70
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |    11 ||    13
       Swiftness         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    11 |    44 ||    55
       See Invisible     |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     6 |    26 ||    32
       Control Teleport  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     8 ||     9
       Flight            |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     1 |     2 |     4 |    17 |     8 |     8 |    23 ||    63
       Finesse           |       |       |       |       |     2 |     5 |     3 |     2 |     6 ||    18
       Vitalisation      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   156 ||   156
       Sanctuary         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    11 ||    11
       Recite            |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Cure All Mutation |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
 Abil: Evoke Levitation  |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |    20 ||    23
       Stop Levitating   |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |    20 ||    23
       Evoke Blink       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     7 |     5 |     2 |    26 |    16 |     9 |    93 ||   158
       Miscellaneous     |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     6 |     1 |    10 |    19 |    11 |    25 |    21 |    17 |    89 ||   199
       Potion            |     4 |     1 |     6 |     4 |     5 |    23 |     3 |     7 |    78 ||   131

Vault maps used:

D:1:
  shiori_entry_elements

D:2:
  first_bread, minmay_misc_feat_nine_boxes

D:3:
  overflow_temple_1_default, overflow_temple_1_default, uniq_grinder

D:4:
  Guppyfry_Hobgoblin_minivault, minmay_temple_entry_secret_door

D:5:
  serial_bayou_shore_a, zin_angel, portal_sewer_entry_e, serial_curves,
  eino_curves_01, eino_curves_02

D:6:
  min_item_tele_traps, uniq_pikel, uniq_eustachio, uniq_prince_ribbit1,
  uniq_iyjb

D:7:
  nemelex_xobeh_ov_fountains_minmay, overflow_temple_1_default,
  overflow_temple_1_default, special_room, serial_shops, shop, fedhas_altar_2

D:8:
  special_room, minmay_parallelograms, uniq_joseph, uniq_grum, uniq_edmund

D:9:
  overflow_temple_1_default, hangedman_ranch

D:10:
  serial_shops, shop, minmay_misc_feat_plants, erik_orc_4, uniq_gastronok_1,
  uniq_josephine

D:11:
  serial_pond, minmay_pond_plants_z, minmay_pond_plants_n

D:12:
  serial_shops, shop, dpeg_lair_monsters

D:13:
  lemuel_crystal_altar

D:14:
  nrook_guardian_serpent_snake_passage, uniq_agnes

D:15:
  ragdoll_tomb_raider, serial_shops, shop, basic_loot_grate_trap, hex_tiny

D:16:
  portal_ice_cave_entry_horrid_things, hex_large

D:17:
  minivault_13, vaults_0_dummy

D:18:
  basic_altar, hangedman_devilish_allure, uniq_nergalle

D:19:
  serial_shops, shop, minmay_item_behind_shaft, uniq_louise

D:21:
  hell_entry

D:22:
  serial_glass, glass_columns_a, glass_columns_a, hell_entry, enter_ziggurat_a,
  hangedman_glass_teeth, archer_statue

D:23:
  hell_entry, pan_entry, minivault_24, nrook_pool_corridor

D:24:
  hangedman_slaughterboxes, hell_entry, pan_entry, serial_shops

D:25:
  evilmike_diamond_1, abyss_entry, hell_entry, enter_wizlab_6,
  minmay_misc_feat_iff, lemuel_old_faithful

D:26:
  cell_vault, hell_entry, minmay_misc_feat_tower, kilobyte_mutagenic_chamber

D:27:
  lemuel_traditional_vault, hell_entry, evilmike_zot_entry_round

Temple:
  jpeg_temple_alley_garden_8, special_room

Orc:1:
  serial_shops, shop, shop, shop, shop, shop, enter_volcano_4, uniq_psyche

Orc:2:
  serial_shops, shop

Orc:4:
  serial_shops, shop_statue, enter_bailey_3, st_orc_ogre_mass, uniq_saint_roka

Elf:1:
  serial_shops, shop, shop, shop, shop, uniq_fannar

Elf:2:
  basic_altar, enter_trove_0, minivault_25, lemuel_ice_statue

Elf:3:
  elf_hall, serial_shops, shop, shop, shop, uniq_aizul, uniq_roxanne

Lair:1:
  serial_bayou_ford_a, disabler_island

Lair:2:
  baited_tele_trap

Lair:3:
  lab_entry_generic, special_room

Lair:4:
  kilobyte_rumbling_trees, swamp_mist, minmay_snake_entry_guardpost_small

Lair:5:
  eino_house_with_fridge

Lair:6:
  serial_bayou_shore_b

Lair:7:
  special_room, slime_dummy

Lair:8:
  wormcave

Swamp:1:
  swamp_pool1

Swamp:2:
  swamp_pool4, uniq_nessos, uniq_snorg

Swamp:4:
  swamp_pool1, water_boxes_lemuel, uniq_nikola

Swamp:5:
  swamp, uniq_mara

Snake:1:
  minmay_snake_pond, serial_bayou_shore_b, uniq_rupert

Snake:3:
  serial_bayou_crossing

Snake:5:
  snake_pit, dpeg_oklob_gauntlet

Slime:3:
  basic_altar

Vaults:1:
  serial_shops, shop_fountains, einodemon_armed_red_devil_minivault,
  uniq_frances, uniq_kirke

Vaults:2:
  serial_shops, shop, minmay_pinched_square

Vaults:3:
  evilmike_ambush, dummy_crypt_entry, uniq_wiglaf, uniq_azrael, uniq_norris

Vaults:4:
  secret_library_closet, uniq_xtahua

Vaults:5:
  serial_shops, shop, spider_trap, uniq_margery

Vaults:6:
  serial_shops, shop_coins, lemuel_blue_sif_altar

Vaults:7:
  hangedman_cross_stitches

Vaults:8:
  serial_shops, uniq_frederick

Crypt:1:
  weyrava_vampire_temple, uniq_mennas

Crypt:2:
  crypt_curse_skull, tomb_entry_sphere_bobbens

Crypt:3:
  crypt_curse_skull, minivault_25

Crypt:5:
  cryptofortress_bobbens

Tomb:1:
  special_room

Tomb:3:
  special_room

Dis:7:
  iron_city_of_dis

Geh:5:
  evilmike_ambush

Geh:7:
  evilmike_geh

Coc:4:
  evilmike_ambush

Coc:7:
  coc_dpeg

Tar:1:
  special_room

Tar:4:
  minmay_shadows

Tar:7:
  tar_mu

Zot:2:
  evilmike_ambush

Zot:4:
  lemuel_lake_of_fire

Abyss:
  evilmike_abyss_exit_kraken, minivault_11,
  hangedman_abyss_rune_flesh_and_stone, abyss_furniture_001,
  evilmike_abyss_rune_ettins, guppyfry_abyss_exit_spiral_guarded,
  evilmike_abyss_rune_tso_outpost, minivault_1, evilmike_abyss_exit_5,
  bmh_abyss_demonologist_exit

Pan:
  evilmike_mini_pan_layers, lemuel_hellion_island, rand_demon_3,
  evilmike_mini_pan_layers, pan_blood_fountain_small, evilmike_mini_pan_pillars,
  lom_lobon_spiral_st, rand_demon_6, pan_blood_fountain_2,
  evilmike_mini_pan_secret, mnoleg_st, pan_blood_fountain,
  evilmike_mini_pan_thingy, lemuel_hall_of_pain, evilmike_mini_pan_diamond,
  gloorx_vloq, rand_demon_4, pan_blood_fountain_small,
  evilmike_mini_pan_other_thingy, lemuel_draining_boxes, evilmike_cerebov_lava,
  evilmike_mini_pan_thingy, pan_blood_fountain_small, evilmike_mini_pan_3x3,
  pan_blood_fountain_2, evilmike_mini_pan_V

Zig:1:
  special_room

Zig:2:
  special_room

Zig:5:
  ziggurat_pillar_centre_monster

Zig:6:
  ziggurat_pillar_centre_f

Zig:7:
  ziggurat_pillar_centre_b

Lab:
  labyrinth_glass_1

Bailey:
  bailey_axe_2, bailey

IceCv:
  ice_cave_statue_garden_01

WizLab:
  wizlab_zonguldrok, special_room


[crate]

Longbows eventually do more damage to single targets, but imo crossbows are better overall for killing everything with ranged. There are two reasons: one, it is easy to find a crossbow (and you can start with it), whereas finding a longbow often takes a while. Two, penetration is the best brand, and crossbows have penetration bolts while bows do not.

If you aren't going to worship a god who gifts you ammo then bows are probably better than crossbows though, since the better ammo brands for crossbows aren't important when you just don't have branded ammo to begin with.

You can avoid losing arrows to deep water by targeting with . instead of f or enter. Your arrows will stop on the space you target. Obviously you still can't shoot at anything that's in deep water if you want to retreive your arrows, but you can freely shoot at anything not over deep water.

Congrats on your win.

[BlackSheep]

I still haven't figured out the ideal way to play with Zin. Vitalisation and Sanctuary are fantastic, but I didn't use Recite or Imprison at all (never seemed like a good time).

Recite is an odd ability. It can have a broad impact on the opposition, but it takes SO LONG to use.

[Siegurt]

Yeah, longbows (and actually just non-long bows) get more damage out of high skill than crossbows, given two of equal enchantment, Longbows outdamage Crossbows at around skill 4 or 5 (depending on your stats) and are about twice the damage at skl27 (provided a decently enchanted launcher). Once you're there you need half as many arrows as you do bolts, but you might find twice as many bolts as arrows, I just don't know.

I find that centuars + elf usually get me *just* enough arrows if I'm conservative, and don't use my bow to kill little, wimpy, critters (But I always supplement with some kind of melee ability to kill little critters)

Typically though I just worship someone who gifts me ammo, at least until I have a very very large stack.

I have semicolon bound to "f." (Or z.. or v. depending on the character) and I find it makes me avoid pitching arrows into the swamp very effectively.

[rebthor]

Having recently finished a CeWn, I can echo some of your problems. Fast metabolism and herbivore definitely had me in some trouble at the beginning/middle of the game and I almost ran into food issues until I found gourmand which I kept on for much of the game. One of the real things I found out was that contaminated chunks are much more of a gamble when you get less nutrition and hunger faster. I used a few !curing to stop sickness that came eating when starving or near starving. I did abuse regeneration to keep my turn count lower and play time higher.

I also ran low on arrows and in fact this stopped me from doing extended. Perhaps I was being overcautious but anything that was remotely dangerous got pincushioned. I did not go to elf, but I think I mulched something like 500 arrows by the end of the game as I ended with just under 100 arrows. I left probably around 50 or so strewn about the dungeon, primarily on vaults 8 and snake 5 and I'm sure I lost a few in deep water or lava fighting salamanders and electric eels.

I wonder if there a mulching change of "enchantment" min(3, bows skill/3) would be well received. That way at skill 27 ammo would be twice as durable and at 18 or so it would be about 50 percent more durable as it is in currently .11. That's based on my understanding that the current mulching code treats ammo as enchanted at +3.

[crate]

Regeneration spell/rings actually makes nausea go away faster, so if you have one then nausea suddenly becomes not a problem at all.

IMO there are plenty of arrows/bolts in the game already and if you really want more ammo in extended then stick with Trog/Oka and use the ammo they give you. I don't see a need to make mulching more complicated again.

[drag0n]

Oh I forgot to mention: while some branches were pretty rough, Elf was the easiest it's ever been for me. Centaur speed + longbow of speed + Portal Projectile = unstoppable force of nature.

Unrelated: barding of levitation was very useful in Cocytus and Gehenna.

[drag0n]

IMO there are plenty of arrows/bolts in the game already and if you really want more ammo in extended then stick with Trog/Oka and use the ammo they give you. I don't see a need to make mulching more complicated again.

Related to this, do you think it's possible to win with 15 runes using a ranged-only melee character? You can stick with Trog or Oka for the ammo, but they (probably) won't give you a holy bow and unbranded arrows.

[cerebovssquire]

a ranged-only melee character???

In short, yes. In the case of crossbows, there is no such thing as holy steel bolts, or holy flaming/freezing bolts, so that kind of makes the holy crossbow less impressive than you think it would be. Of course, it is still better than elemental brands, though, the difference only isn't fatally huge. In the case of bows, flaming/freezing ammo is still very good (it is actually better than steel against neutral targets, or so I read), and there are no holy flaming arrows (except when fired from some holy monsters), so again, you are missing out on something but not on that horribly much. Kill small targets with normal arrows, use the massive stacks of flaming/freezing arrows on more dangerous enemies (DON'T save them for the most dangerous enemies though), and use disperal to get stuff blocking tormentors/hellfirers out of the way. Dispersal is basically penetration except it takes more time. Finesse compensates for that, and your lack of holy damage (though, of course, Finesse+penetration is doubly good). Trog isn't as good as Okawaru in extended, in my opinion, if you aren't using an anti-magic weapon, because of Finesse, but it should be doable still.

[crate]

Oka is obviously stronger than Trog for most of the game for a ranged character because berserk doesn't work for ranged and finesse is absolutely absurd for ranged (plus fewer drawbacks ... i.e. you can cast spells).

There are plenty of arrows/bolts to kill everything dangerous in a 15 rune game with bows or crossbows. You can even grab TSO for a portion of the game just to get your weapon blessed and then go back to Oka afterward if you want, though honestly unless you're doing things like wasting arrows on hellwings and orange demons you won't run out of ammo anyway.