CIP - MiFi of Okawaru. Help a person who only knows casters

[wux]

Hi All.

Just a quick post to ask for advice on progressing this guy. I actually have no idea how to play fighter characters. Lessons learnt in a 15 rune win with caster are not very relevant here
My questions are -
I know I am going to die soon as I run into more powerful mobs. I saw an iron golem and trying to evoke my spear from a square away did like no damage. How do I set my character up to be a more powerful killing machine?
I had an idea to get some magic skills going to eventually complete a 15 rune game. I assume that is a better path than trying to get ranged up as MiGl would be more suitable for ranged than a Fighter?
I understand that you really need to either pick the path of a High Armour Class/Medium Evasion or a Medium Armour Class/High Evasion. (Not High Armour Class/High Evasion). I assume High AC/Med EV is more suitable for a fighter? I know my current armour is very ordinary, but I havent really found a better one yet.
Any general tips on how to play this class would be welcome, as my DCSS experience has really always been as a Fire Elementist nuker.
Thanks.
PS. I am hoping that than a MiFi can eventually kill everything in the game if played right?

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.1 character file.

Wux the Spear-Bearer (Minotaur Fighter)             Turns: 9268, Time: 00:53:04

HP  35/66        AC 10     Str 22      XL: 8   Next: 97%
MP   2/2         EV  8     Int  5      God: Okawaru [***...]
Gold 291         SH  0     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .    H - +1,+3 orc trident
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  b - +0 scale mail
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .    (no shield)
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (helmet restricted)
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    p - +1 cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (no gloves)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Stasis     : .    (no boots)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .    (no amulet)
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    v - cursed ring of life protection
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    h - ring of protection from cold

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Heroism, Renounce Religion


You are on level 8 of the Dungeon.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is greatly pleased with you.
You are near starving.

You have visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and seen 9 of its levels.

You have collected 271 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 e - a runed orcish spear (quivered)
 j - a runed orcish spear
 m - a runed orcish spear
 H - a +1,+3 orcish trident (weapon)
Armour
 b - a +0 scale mail (worn)
 c - a +0 shield
 p - a +1 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 C - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
Comestibles
 d - 2 bread rations
 q - 3 meat rations
Scrolls
 a - a scroll of teleportation
 f - 4 scrolls of identify
 g - 2 scrolls of detect curse
 l - 2 scrolls of enchant weapon I
 o - 4 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 h - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 v - a cursed ring of life protection (right hand)
Potions
 i - a silvery potion
 k - a fizzy brown potion
 r - 4 potions of heal wounds
 t - 3 potions of restore abilities
 x - 4 potions of curing
 z - a potion of levitation
 D - 2 potions of brilliance
Books
 u - a Young Poisoner's Handbook   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Sting                              Conjuration/Poison           1
   Cure Poison                        Poison                       2
   Mephitic Cloud                     Conjuration/Poison/Air       3
   Olgreb's Toxic Radiance            Poison                       4
   Venom Bolt                         Conjuration/Poison           5


   Skills:
 - Level 3.6 Fighting
 - Level 11.6 Polearms
 + Level 7.0 Armour
 - Level 3.6 Shields


You have 7 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (8/27)             Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (0/4) D:7
  Lair: D:8-13     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
The Shining One
Trog
Vehumet
Yredelemnul
Zin

Annotations
D:6 Pikel; Wux's ghost, experienced MiFi


                    Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

You see here a glowing orcish flail.
Things that are here:
an orcish mace; an orc corpse
You see here a glowing orcish flail.
You are near starving!
A jelly comes into view.
The jelly quivers.
Attack whom?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f - jelly
Aim: a jelly
You reach to attack!
Your scale mail prevents you from hitting the jelly.
Attack whom?
Press: ? - help, Dir - move target cursor, f/p - jelly
Aim: a jelly
You reach to attack!
Your scale mail prevents you from hitting the jelly.
Welcome back, Wux the Minotaur Fighter.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

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..###   #.#    #.).........#
....#####.######))..._.....#
...........................#
#.....###.######...........#
###...# #...#  ####.....####
  #...###...###   #.....#
  #...........#####.....####...
  #.##....#....@J..............
###.##....#....####...######...
..<.......................
.##.#####...##.####..#####
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.##...# #.##.....##..##
.##...# #.##.....##....
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.##.#   ######.........#
.##.#        #.......##
.##.#        #.###...#
  #.#      ###)#  #..#


You can see a jelly.

Vanquished Creatures
  2 slaves
  2 ice beasts
  4 ogres
  A centaur (D:7)
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A wight (D:5)
  3 crimson imps
  2 scorpions
  7 orc priests
  A shadow (D:7)
  3 hounds
  An iguana (D:7)
  8 orc wizards
  A worker ant (D:6)
  A goliath beetle zombie (D:6)
  Terence (D:2)
  4 gnolls (D:2)
  5 adders
  An adder skeleton (D:6)
  A giant mite (D:2)
  4 worms
  A giant eyeball (D:4)
  6 giant geckos
  44 orcs
  A ball python (D:7)
  11 giant cockroaches
  14 goblins
  10 hobgoblins
  9 jackals
  17 kobolds
  9 bats
  6 giant newts
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:7)
  A quokka (D:6)
  5 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:5)
  3 toadstools
193 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A worm (D:5)
  An orc (D:7)
  A goblin (D:5)
  A hobgoblin (D:5)
  2 jackals (D:5)
  A hobgoblin skeleton (D:5)
  A rat (D:3)
  20 toadstools
28 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 221 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Wux, the Minotaur Fighter, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   296 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 24/26 MP: 0/0
   444 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
   863 | D:2      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 33/33 MP: 1/1
   983 | D:2      | Noticed Terence
  1278 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  1399 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 36/39 MP: 1/1
  1435 | D:2      | Noticed Sigmund
  2622 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Polearms
  2622 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 34/46 MP: 1/1
  2888 | D:4      | Got a steaming blowgun
  2895 | D:4      | Identified the cursed blowgun "Plog" {speed, +Inv} (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
  2927 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 3 turns
  2931 | D:4      | Paralysed by a giant eyeball for 4 turns
  3176 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3192 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  3212 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Polearms
  3297 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Polearms
  3297 | D:5      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 38/52 MP: 2/2
  3424 | D:5      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  3778 | D:5      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  3972 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  3975 | D:6      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 59/59 MP: 2/2
  3991 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Polearms
  4028 | D:6      | Noticed Wux's ghost (experienced MiFi)
  4103 | D:6      | Noticed Pikel
  4117 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4124 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  4397 | D:5      | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  5107 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Polearms
  5332 | D:5      | You fall through a shaft!
  5525 | D:6      | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
  6316 | D:2      | Killed Sigmund
  6772 | D:2      | Killed Terence
  6772 | D:2      | Acquired Okawaru's first power
  6971 | D:7      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 66/66 MP: 2/2
  7047 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Polearms
  8205 | D:7      | Reached skill level 11 in Polearms
  8397 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  9081 | D:8      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  9081 | D:8      | Noticed an iron golem
  9117 | D:8      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.



[TehDruid]

I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the spectrum. I play way too much melee and ranged with no magic. So here's a couple of things I've learned'

Do mind that your evasion, primarily tied to the dodging skill and character size is also affected by how much DEX you have. It's optimal to get 24 dex, after that point the diminishing returns make it not worth it. So with MiFi starting low DEX, you're going to need to put lots of your level up points to get optimal EV if you're going for spell-less with great AC and good EV. If going for hybrid with casting, Fi is obviously a terrible choice because of the low INT. A MiWz would be a much better start (edit: tried it, it's not actually easy, but definitely worth it if you're going for the highest intellect possible), but imho you shouldn't try to work with magic early on, just grab a weapon and start raising a weapon skill (which is your strong point) or go unarmed and possibly throw in Blade Hands later on. If you're willing to try a "reaver" kind of character (a mix of melee and blaster spells, High Elves do it pretty well, from my little experience with them), while Cheibriados is -simply put- a bad god in general, at least Minotaurs benefit more than other species from him, in the sense that they get more than just decent INT so they can cast more easily and higher DEX to reach the sweet spot of 24 without putting any points into dex. The chance they use their counter attack also is (STR+DEX)/100 so obviously chei stat boosts help with that, not that it's is such an important damage factor, but still, better than other species for this god. Also Blade Hands benefit from higher STR + DEX. Or you could stick with Okawaru for the gifts and not having to worry about slow movement. Your stats will be far from spectacular, but it's a much safer god option.

Your skills are ok, but I'd have gone for 14 polearms before touching armour or fighting, especially on a minotaur where it's easy to train such skills, to reach minimum delay with the trident. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, reach the weapon skill required for minimum delay with your current weapon. That's the thing you should do first. Only situations where going for weapon skill only at the beginning is bad, is when you're playing a species with bad apts and you're trying to get min delay on something that has more than like... 140% attack delay. Then you should probably stick with a lighter weapon and work on armour or dodging till it's around 10, then go back to the weapon skill to hit min delay, unless that's going to take way too much time. It's safe to say that with 20 weapon skill for the heaviest weapons you'll be fine to stop till you get some decent defences, then shoot for min delay, like an executioner's axe needs 26 skill in axes to use optimally in terms of attack speed.

As it's mentioned below, you shouldn't be thinking about the endgame so early (XL 8, ), especially considering that you're inexperienced in melee. I don't know if casters have it more easy than spell-less melee (most probably yeah, considering haste), but then again I have never cleared Hells without Zin guarding me from Hell effects so far, so I can't really tell, even for melee without Zin. It's a horrible place in general for every character without Zin. TSO comes close of course, but the safety of no hell effects screwing you over constantly is much more appreciated, imo. They seem to be happening way too often for my taste. And speed diving to the 7th level of each without a hitch is not possible a lot of the time. But do consider switching to TSO to bless a bardiche and do Pan and Hells (and Tomb, probably) then go for Zin for Hells and Zot, donate some decent money to get back to 6* with him and you'll be mutation/hell effect free, pretty much. I find this to be the safest strategy, imo. The post endgame is designed to make even characters that lucked into some insanely OP equips cower in fear. And that's good. You shouldn't be steamrolling the entire game. Sometimes you'll have to take a different route other than killing all Hell/Pan lords to get their runes, simply because you can't, sometimes, and you might even die before you teleport back to safety if you experiment with the odds too recklessly. I've had this happen to me quite a few times with very nice characters.

[JeffQyzt]

Advice:

1) Don't go Chei
2) Pick up some heavier armor - the scale that you start with is awful. Surely you've at least seen some chain or splint mail, if not plate, by level 8?
3) Using the auto-fight command (tab) will use evokable reaching for you without going through the evoke menu. Very helpful in terms of reducing tedium in 1:1 encounters, though you may still want to pick your targets manually when there are groups.
4) If it was this character that saw the iron golem, it was enormously out of depth (probably from a vault) and you probably want to just avoid it (which is easy, since it's slow.) On the other hand, you could kite it with reaching once you've cleared the level for a decent chunk of XP.
5) Use Okawaru's lowest level invocation liberally at any encounter that looks even possibly challenging. You'll kill stuff faster, earning piety more quickly, with less need to rest (thus losing piety more slowly) which tends to offset the piety cost overall.
6) You're worrying a bit too much about what your end game is going to look like - you need to learn how to survive long enough to get there first. What you need to know - if you think you'll cast spells, put level up points in Int, otherwise, Dex. Both are quite valid for a 3-rune game. Either way, you want to build your weapon and armor skills prior to support skills (e.g. either pumping spellcasting + charms or dodging depending on which stat you chose.)
7) Upgrade your version - there are 2 bugfix releases of .10 (so .10.3 is the most patched release of that version.) Or you could go with the recently released .11.0

[wux]

Thanks to both of you for these tips. This character actually just got deleted because I upgraded to 0.11. So I have started again as MiFi, and will raise my polearms to whats required for my weap to be minimum delay before I train anything else.

In this early game so far I have run into my first packs of Ogres and Orc Priests. Ogres I am trying to kill them one square away but they are almost as fast as me so thats been problematic. And I am trying to prioritize the Orc Priests when I see them to stop them casting too many smites.
But for both of these, and future similar monsters, should my Fighter character have a way of killing from ranged? Should this be ranged weapons, or should I get some spells. Both options are going to cause small damage I am sure as the skill will not be high. (I dont really want to use ranged weapons on this guy as I want to do that with a different future character like CeHu.)
So should I just forget about ranged until much later, and just use tactics to avoid having to kill from ranged ?

[rchandra]

In the early game, you definitely don't need a ranged attack. Use tactics to minimize smites, and don't fight ogres fairly until you can crush them (wands/potions will help earlier if you are forced to fight).

If you find javelins, 3-5 throwing skill might be worthwhile. Later on (after fighting/weapon/armour are high), you can pick up something: dodging, support spells, or ranged weapons. If you don't want spells at all then Dex + dodging is fine, but then you should probably be with Trog (and start as Berserker) instead (leave Okawaru for your CeHu, he's really good for ranged combatants).