CiP (Now YAVP): SpEn of Kiku

[dtkz]

http://pastebin.com/JBw8P2ss

Playing a SpEn of KIku and I could do with some advice. I'm planning to do a 3 runer.

Weapon Choice
I'd originally planned to brand a sabre with pain but haven't found any yet. So far the +3 short sword of elec has been serving me well and I have a +2 holy short sword and a +4+2 freezing dagger that I switch to depending on what and where I'm fighting. Should I go into Elf to find one or should I just forget about it and just get the Necronomicon?

Spells
I haven't really found many books and the only spells I can learn that are not necromantic in nature that do damage are flame tongue and fireball. I would imagine that the former is useless at this point and Fireball has an 85% failure rate unless I pump conjurations or fire. I have a couple of unIDed high-level books so one of them might be Annihilations so Poison Arrow is a possibility but I have no way to pump up Poison magic. Suggestions?

Armour
What should I wear? I've been wearing a randart +0 animal skin with {Dex+3 Int+3 Curse}. I have a whole bunch of robes with rF or rC. Or alternatively, I have some mottled dragon and troll leather that I could convert to armour but that would mean putting some xp into Armour skill. I should note that I'm wearing a randart cloak with -2 Dex because it's the only source of blink I have besides scrolls.

Where to go to next?
I'm currently planning to go clear down to Vault 7 and see whether I find anything along the way, but I'm not too sure where to go to if nothing turns up. No flight or repel missiles makes me a little leery of Shoals, no conservation or preservation makes Elf less attractive, no rMut so no Slime.

Misc
There's a treasure portal that needs 15 scrolls of teleport and I have 17 altogether. Worth it? Those scrolls are my only source of teleport although I guess I could buy a ring of tele if need be. I also have a scroll of acquirement. Use it for armour or wait and see?

[Stormfox]

The whole point of going SpEn^Kiku is to stab things with a pain-branded short blade. If you absolutely must have a sabre, hit the first two levels of Elf. But banish any thought of getting the Necronomicon over a pain brand.

Go for the trove. You'll find more teleport scrolls, or a wand. Go for it sooner rather than later. It's not like the trove is asking for three cure mutation potions.

[njvack]

The whole point of going SpEn^Kiku is to stab things with a pain-branded short blade.

Or a quick blade! If your Short Blades skill is high, you're fairly likely to get one from ?Acquirement, I think.

Unless I'm mistaken in my understanding of stabbing mechanics (and I may well be -- I can't remember where I read a good explanation of stabbing), Pain and Elec aren't particularly good stabbing brands anyhow -- they're additive damage that gets applied afterwards, rather than the multiplicative damage increases you'd get from fire, frost, or vorpal.

Your best bet might be to stab with a more traditional brand and switch to pain when you need to melee?

In any case, Pain brand > Necronomicon.

[BlackSheep]

Once you have a pain branded dagger, you don't need to worry about stabbing multipliers. Anything that doesn't die immediately will die very soon after that. You don't need a sabre at all, and waiting to find one is just a waste of time.

I would spend the scrolls on the Trove, especially if you're running around with that cloak and that skin.

Spriggans are penalized more heavily for wearing armor with an EV penalty than other races. I'd recommend sticking with robes with a useful resistance over MDA/TLA.

Vaults is a good choice for your next destination. Seven levels of that plus the Trove could change your outlook considerably, so don't worry too much about what's after that.

As for spells, you've got Invisibility castable. That will solve the vast majority of problems. You may want to look for some crowd control options. Late game, I found Simulacrum to be useful for that.

[crate]

If you are satisfied with your elec short sword and want Death's Door or Haunt I would recommend the necronomicon. Elec is pretty similar to pain brand on average until quite high necro skill (pain is still better because it is more consistent and works on more of the enemies you care about).

If you want a pain brand, the weapon I would most often pain brand with a spen of kiku is a dagger. However since you already have 12 short blades a short sword is fine too.

[njvack]

Isn't the elec brand noisy?

[crate]

Well if you stab something and it dies before your brand triggers then it doesn't matter anyway ... because your brand doesn't trigger.

[ddubois]

Only if you use it in water.

I've read otherwise:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... t401894339

[Jabberwocky]

I'd trust minmay more than some random SAer.

[ddubois]

Sure, but I trust the citing of sources more than reputation.

[zedzed]

If (pain) brand doesn't get taken into account with stabbing, wouldn't it be better to just have a "Standard" dagger for stabbing, and then put the pain brand onto a sabre for any situation where stabbing isn't possible? i.e. a monster that can see invisible? (although I guess they may also be negative energy resistant, so if they can see invisible then pain is useless too?)

I guess the issue there may be getting enough scrolls to get both weapons to +9,+9 ... but base damage is more important anyway (?) so use scrolls on dagger and any left over use on the sabre??

Or am I taking kak?

Dez

[Jabberwocky]

From my quick wizmode test it seems that minmay is correct and it doesn't make any noise. This was just by filling a room with orcs and stabbing them with 27 stabbing and stealth skill. I didn't notice any increased number of orcs waking up when I was stabbing with a elec dagger versus any other brand.

[BlackSheep]

The SA forum post mentions that when stabbing, noise is set to zero.

Since pain is an additive brand instead of a multiplicative one, you want to hit targets as fast as possible. Putting it on a sabre requires a higher Short Blades skill to reach min delay for not much benefit. Then there's the fact that sabres do less damage than daggers when stabbing. Why bother having to switch weapons all the time and trying to enchant up two different weapons for marginal gain? The majority of your damage is going to come from the pain brand anyway.

[crate]

If you are stabbing them then you are not actually triggering the elec brand!! Read my post and read the messages you get in-game.

[ddubois]

Then there's the fact that sabres do less damage than daggers when stabbing.

This extra damage is significantly increased if you are wielding a dagger, but is capped at 30. With sufficiently high Stabbing skill and Dexterity, other short blades can also hit the cap. To get the maximum bonus you need to have dex*(1 + stabbing skill) above 300 with a dagger or 600 with another short blade.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, you don't really need to +9/+9 two items, you just need to skill a little harder with your +9/+9 quickplade of pain than you do with you +9/+9 dagger of pain, but the benefit is you won't have to worry about swapping anymore.

[zedzed]

Emmm, I'm not an expert, but from the wiki the formula for stab bonus is: dex*(1 + stabbing skill). You need a score of 600 to max. bonus for "non-dagger short blades", and only 300 for daggers.

So if you maxed stabbing to 27 you'd still need 22 dex to get the bonus. (600/28).

Those attribute points being put into dex would likely be better spent on raising int, and the xp on hexes/stealth or whatever instead of stabbing - so you can put the mob to sleep in the first place before you kill it

If you found some item with a very high +dex then it I guess it might be more of an option. I'm sure someone with more experience than I will respond

Dez

[CommanderC]

Re noise:
That user from the SA forum forgets the most important part: the calculation of loudness:

  Code:

 case SPWPN_ELECTROCUTION:
        noise_factor += 800 / std::max(1, damage_done);
.
.
int level = noise_factor * damage_done / 100 / 4;
.
.
noisy(level, pos, attacker->mindex());


The final loudness is old_loudness+2. That means that the radius is increased by 2 or 3. Not something you should worry about (too much).

However, using a weapon of electrocution in water, generates a exploding beam of electricity with loudness=10+5*radius=15. That thing can awake lots of monsters outside of your LOS.

[dtkz]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Updated progress here: http://pastebin.com/wgdsRRXc

Quick Summary:
Went down to Vaults 7 and found flight and repel missiles. Decided to check out the trove as suggested and it turned out to be a weapon trove! I am now the proud owner of a +8 quickblade of pain! Returned to Shoals and picked up the barnacled rune. I also managed to pick up the silver rune from vaults but wasn't able to loot everything since I don't have any effective way to deal with awake shadow dragons. Cleared Elf down to 5 except for the treasure vault and that's where I am now.

Questions:
-Should I forget agony? I don't think I've used it for quite a while. Most things that are vulnerable seem to do down fast enough to the quickblade and I'm currently training conjurations in order to use iron shot which I figure I can use on things that are immune to unholy.

-I've found a Necronomicon. Should I learn any of the spells? If so, which spells should I forget?

-I'm wearing a robe with rC now which combined with my randart ring gives me pip of rC and rF each. I've heard that rF++ is preferable for Zot so I assume I should switch to a rF robe before entering?

-Mennas is asleep in a little cul-de-sac on D21, try to kill him or just leave him alone?

[Stormfox]

For Mennas, if you use a dagger, you should be able to one-shot him with a successful stab. (I have, with Stabbing around where you have it.) Better to try it if you can get a good approach in...it will beat leaving him parked on the level and risk waking him up at a bad time. And if you mess up, at least you'll be able to run away.

[onton]

-Mennas is asleep in a little cul-de-sac on D21, try to kill him or just leave him alone?

If you can get close to Mennas while he's asleep, you cand read a tele scroll and try to stab him before it kicks in. If you fail you will get teleported before he kills you and/or casts silence.

[BlackSheep]

Reading scrolls makes noise.

If you've cleared the rest of D:21 and Mennas is not near a staircase, just leave him be. He has nothing you need.

[dtkz]

Sucess! 1st win and escaped with 6 runes.

http://pastebin.com/xnXBWN3r

Highlights:
-Using a scroll of vulnerability on the Royal Jelly, polymorphing it into a Golden Dragon and then blowing it up with 2 OoDs.
-Going invisible and stabbing Ilsuiw and her entire entourage.
-Stabbing and one-shotting Xtahua and Mennas among other uniques.
-Opening a treasure trove with 15 scrolls of teleport and finally finding the quickblades I'd been looking for.
-Turning into a flying statue with haste, phase shift, stoneskin and sure blade active and becoming a melee machine.
-Becoming trapped in a cul de sac with enemies around due to a bad blink and using a wand of digging to cut an escape route

  Code:

 
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.10.3 character file.

2655175 Stanley the Ninja (level 27, 146/146 HPs)
             Began as a Spriggan Enchanter on July 24, 2012.
             Was the Champion of Kikubaaqudgha.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 6 runes on July 27, 2012!
             
             The game lasted 16:38:03 (148860 turns).

Stanley the Ninja (Spriggan Enchanter)            Turns: 148860, Time: 16:38:03

HP 146/146       AC 11     Str  8      XL: 27
MP  50/50        EV 40     Int 30      God: Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold 6573        SH 19     Dex 21      Spells: 17 memorised,  0 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + +   See Invis. : +    a - +9,+8 quick blade (pain)
Res.Cold  : + . .   Warding    : . .  f - +2 robe {rC+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .    P - +0 buckler of Zorutor {Dam+5}
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    l - +2 elf wizard hat {Int+3}
Res.Poison: .       Clarity    : .    w - +4 dragonskin cloak
Res.Elec. : .       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: + .     Stasis     : .    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : +       Ctrl.Telep.: x    J - amulet of resist mutation
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    c - ring "Crief" {rF+ Stlth++}
Saprovore : . . .   Ctrl.Flight: .    I - ring of Creativity {SustAb rF++ Dex+3 Int+

@: very slightly contaminated, hasted (expires), very quick, extraordinarily
resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: unfitting armour, see invisible, herbivore 3, speed 3, slow metabolism 3
a: Receive Corpses, Torment, Renounce Religion
}: 6/15 runes: decaying, barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, abyssal


You escaped.
You worshipped Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and saw 83 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You visited 1 Labyrinth.
You visited 3 portal chambers: ossuary, volcano, trove.

You collected 13113 gold pieces.
You spent 6560 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9,+8 quick blade of pain (weapon)
 B - a +9 elven blowgun
Missiles
 A - 8 curare-tipped +0 needles
Armour
 f - a +2 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 l - a +2 elven wizard hat of intelligence (worn)
 w - the +4 dragonskin cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Tiamat on level 1 of the Realm of Zot)
 P - the +0 buckler of Zorutor (worn) {Dam+5}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
Magical devices
 k - a wand of digging (10)
 M - a wand of teleportation (10)
Comestibles
 m - 5 apples
Scrolls
 o - 2 scrolls of holy word
 r - a scroll of blinking
 C - a scroll of identify
 Q - 19 scrolls of teleportation
 U - 3 scrolls of fog
Jewellery
 c - the ring "Crief" (right hand) {rF+ Stlth++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 20 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 e - the amulet of Phaf {Gourm Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 s - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 t - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 u - an uncursed amulet of warding
 y - an uncursed ring of life protection
 z - a +4 ring of evasion
 F - the amulet of Panentheism {Clar +Inv SInv}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It lets you turn invisible.
 G - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 I - the ring of Creativity (left hand) {SustAb rF++ Dex+3 Int+3 Dam-4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of sustain abilities]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (-4).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
 J - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 O - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 R - the amulet of Xiuthrisung {Gourm Int+3 Dam+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [amulet of the gourmand]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+6).
Potions
 n - 2 potions of agility
 p - a potion of magic
 x - 4 potions of resistance
 N - 8 potions of heal wounds
Orbs of Power
 b - the Orb of Zot


   Skills:
 + Level 15.9 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Short Blades
 - Level 1.1 Throwing
 O Level 27 Dodging
 O Level 27 Stealth
 - Level 16.0 Stabbing
 - Level 9.0 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps & Doors
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 - Level 13.0 Conjurations
 - Level 13.0 Hexes
 - Level 11.0 Charms
 - Level 10.0 Summonings
 + Level 20.6 Necromancy
 - Level 13.0 Translocations
 - Level 9.0 Transmutations
 - Level 10.0 Ice Magic
 - Level 10.0 Air Magic
 + Level 14.5 Earth Magic
 - Level 8.0 Evocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Freezing Cloud        Ice/Air/Conj   ########..   1%          6    None
c - Confuse               Hex            ########.    0%          3    None
d - Sure Blade            Hex/Chrm       ########..   0%          2    None
e - Invisibility          Hex            ########.    1%          6    None
f - Vampiric Draining     Necr           #########.   0%          3    None
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   0%          3    None
h - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   2%          7    None
i - Dispel Undead         Necr           #########    0%          5    None
j - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           #########.   0%          2    None
k - Haste                 Chrm           ########.    1%          6    None
l - Stoneskin             Erth/Trmt      ########..   0%          2    None
m - Statue Form           Erth/Trmt      ########..   1%          6    None
o - Flight                Air/Chrm       ########..   1%          3    None
p - Phase Shift           Tloc           ########..   1%          5    None
q - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          2%          7    None
r - Borgnjor's Revivific  Necr           #########.   1%          7    None
s - Haunt                 Summ/Necr      ########..   1%          7    None